Dispensation from Friday penance day after Thanksgiving?

[HomeschoolDad]

Is there any question in the United States of the faithful being dispensed from the obligation to do penance on the Friday after Thanksgiving?

It is true that on each and every Friday of the year (unless there is a major feast, such as Christmas), the faithful are bound by the Church to do some sort of penance. In much of the world, this penance is abstaining from flesh meat. In the United States, this has been derogated to either abstaining from flesh meat, or performing some alternate penance or act of charity. It is not, contrary to popular belief, “ever since Vatican II, we can eat meat on Fridays now” with no other conditions.

Prior to the changes, the bishops of the United States were able to dispense from the Friday penance obligation at their discretion. Is there anything similar in place today, or is it just passed over in silence? And if there is no dispensation, it seems that we would either have to abstain from flesh meat, or perform an alternative penance, as desired.

I think I’ll perform the alternative penance. I’m going to have a lot of turkey breast left over. Turkey is very versatile. The exquisite Kentucky Hot Brown is just one option — turkey, bacon, tomatoes, and Welsh rarebit over toast — foregoing that would be a penance indeed!

 

[UpUpAndAway]

I still do my usual penance on Friday (year-round meat abstinence). It’s not like the leftovers are going to be inedible on Saturday… :woman_shrugging:t2:

(note: American, but not living in US; can’t answer your actual question)

 

[DIERM]

Not sure elsewhere, but in much of US, Friday penance does not have to be abstaining from meat…there are plenty of other acceptable forms of penance.

If you are looking for a dispensation, address that request to your Pastor before indulging.

My own personal thoughts are that you might be being just a little scrupulous in this regard.

Hope you find peace!

 

[HomeschoolDad]

I still do my usual penance on Friday (year-round meat abstinence). It’s not like the leftovers are going to be inedible on Saturday…

That is true. Some say that the dispensation was due as much to preserving the festive nature of the holiday weekend, as to questions of food preservation. I don’t think a reason was given, it was just understood. This was a sensible, charitable concession by Rome to a secular holiday that Americans find very joyous and just good time spent taking a break from work with family, friends, and abundant food. Pius XII was very fond of the United States and was very kind to us.

 

[acanonlawyer]

Pius XII was very fond of the United States and was very kind to us.

I’ve never found solid proof of this dispensation. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist…but I looked where I should have found it, and didn’t.

So, in answer to this question

Is there any question in the United States of the faithful being dispensed from the obligation to do penance on the Friday after Thanksgiving?

I would say “Yes, there is.”

A person could certainly be dispensed by his own local, competent authority or, in the USA, take advantage of the rather nebulous nature of the actual, Friday, penitential requirements.

Dan

 

[CatholicSooner]

My own personal thoughts are that you might be being just a little scrupulous in this regard.

This seems pretty cut and dry. We are required to perform a Friday pennace. i don’t see how clarifying that is a case of scruples. One of the issues with the Church right now is a lack of observance of the rules of the Church

 

[Tis_Bearself]

In the USA, we’re not required to abstain from meat except on Fridays in Lent/ Good Friday. The rest of the year, we’re supposed to do Friday penance which could be abstaining from meat or something else of our own choosing.

I have seen many a parish/K of C event throughout the year where meat was being served on Friday and nobody batted an eye.

You don’t need to seek a dispensation from a requirement that doesn’t exist. Simply choose another penance to do. I will likely be skipping meat this Friday because I am not cooking a turkey so will not have any leftovers, and it’s just as easy for me to eat a fish or veggie sandwich on Friday as it is for me to eat a burger.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

Not sure elsewhere, but in much of US, Friday penance does not have to be abstaining from meat…there are plenty of other acceptable forms of penance.

If you are looking for a dispensation, address that request to your Pastor before indulging.

My own personal thoughts are that you might be being just a little scrupulous in this regard.

Hope you find peace!

I am totally at peace about the matter, and I don’t think it’s being scrupulous at all. I am not normally one to talk about what kind of penance I may or may not be doing, but in that there is apparently no dispensation from the obligation to do penance, I will find something other than abstaining from flesh meat.

Please follow my reasoning:

• The faithful in the United States are no longer bound to do penance on Fridays only by abstaining from flesh meat
• There is no dispensation from the obligation to do penance on the Friday after Thanksgiving
• Therefore, the faithful may choose either to abstain from flesh meat, or to do an alternative penance — but they can’t just “blow it off” (even though that is precisely what many if not most people, in all ignorance and good faith, have done)
• … or is the dispensation still in place? If the dispensation existed before that time, has it ever been abrogated?
• Put another way, the dispensation seems to have been a dispensation from doing penance — only the nature of the mandatory penance has been changed

I have seen many a parish/K of C event throughout the year where meat was being served on Friday and nobody batted an eye.

Yes, and that’s pretty pathetic. No wonder people think it’s simply a case of “we can eat meat on Fridays now”.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

Yes, and that’s pretty pathetic. No wonder people think it’s simply a case of “we can eat meat on Fridays now”.

It’s not “pathetic” presumable people would have known about this event for some time and would have been able to make other arrangements.

 

[Margaret_Ann]

In the USA, we’re not required to abstain from meat except on Fridays in Lent/ Good Friday.

In the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, we are required to abstain from meat and meat products all Fridays of the year EXCEPT the Privileged Weeks which are:

1. Dec. 25 - Jan. 4 inclusive (Nativity of Our Lord)
2. Bright Week (the week after Pascha/Easter)
3. The week after Pentecost (Green Week) - this is an Ember Week on the TL calendar)
4. From the Sunday of the Publican and the Pharisee to the Sunday of the Prodigal Son (=last Sunday after Epiphany to Septugesima on the TL calendar). Reason: We don’t want to imitate the Pharisee who boasted: “…I fast twice in the week…” (Luke 18:10)

Traditionally, one abstained from meat and meat products every Wednesday as well as every Friday. This is kept in monasteries, convents and seminaries but by the faithful during the Great Fast (Lent).

 

[HomeschoolDad]

Yes, and that’s pretty pathetic. No wonder people think it’s simply a case of “we can eat meat on Fridays now”.

No, I mean it’s pretty pathetic that parishes and KofC chapters can’t use Fridays as a teachable moment to offer only non-meat meals, and end up doing nothing but reinforcing the misconception that “we can eat meat on Fridays now and that’s all there is to it”. Or have the events on some other day.

 

[Titivillus]

HomeschoolDad:

Pius XII was very fond of the United States and was very kind to us.

I’ve never found solid proof of this dispensation. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist…but I looked where I should have found it, and didn’t.

It does not mention Pius XII specifically, only “The Holy See”, but a google search turned up (among others) page 1 of the Pittsburgh Catholic 22 Nov 1962, about halfway down the first column.

https://thecatholicnewsarchive.org/?a=d&d=TPC19621122-01.1.1

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I think it’s understood here that this is referring to the RC church.

 

[acanonlawyer]

It does not mention Pius XII specifically, only “The Holy See”, but a google search turned up (among others) page 1 of the Pittsburgh Catholic 22 Nov 1962, about halfway down the first column.

Pittsburgh Catholic 22 November 1962 — Catholic Research Resources Alliance

That’s a good piece of information. It says that the bishops were given the faculty to dispense (in those days, they couldn’t dispense from universal, disciplinary law unless the ability was specifically granted…unlike today, where they can dispense unless the ability is specifically curtailed), not that the Pope dispensed.

Given that concession (“you guys can dispense this if you want”), the Pittsburgh bishop dispensed his faithful.

That’s how I would read that.

Dan

 

[mrsdizzyd]

mrsdizzyd:

Yes, and that’s pretty pathetic. No wonder people think it’s simply a case of “we can eat meat on Fridays now”.

No, I mean it’s pretty pathetic that parishes and KofC chapters can’t use Fridays as a teachable moment to offer only non-meat meals, and end up doing nothing but reinforcing the misconception that “we can eat meat on Fridays now and that’s all there is to it”. Or have the events on some other day.

Are you suggesting that they intend to reinforce that misconception? Why does it have to be nefarious? Why can’t we simply trust that people know the teaching and will act accordingly?

 

[DIERM]

Yes, and that’s pretty pathetic. No wonder people think it’s simply a case of “we can eat meat on Fridays now”.

I think this answers your question, without the need for (name removed by moderator)ut from others…don’t eat that left over turkey on Friday, and your personal dilemma is solved!

 

[PetraG]

No, I mean it’s pretty pathetic that parishes and KofC chapters can’t use Fridays as a teachable moment to offer only non-meat meals, and end up doing nothing but reinforcing the misconception that “we can eat meat on Fridays now and that’s all there is to it”. Or have the events on some other day.

Well, the Knights and the parishes are also in a perfectly good position to offer any group meeting on a Friday an alternative practice in which works of mercy are performed in lieu of abstaining from meat, which was sort of what the bishops had in mind when they made the change in the first place.

Not that people can’t do both, mind you. It is reasonable to try to teach that the penitential nature of Fridays outside of Lent hasn’t disappeared, you are right about that. The misconception is very widespread.

 

[hoping4more]

I won’t see my family until Friday is this is more than just an issue of leftovers.

I am considering giving up meat(really difficult socially), coffee(difficult after eating and watching kids) chocolate and deserts(likely to offend one of my sisters or wife).

Any other ideas for OP and myself?

 

[Fauken]

Any other ideas for OP and myself?

You could limit your portions of food. Adding additional prayers could also be a penance.

 

[twf]

Pray an office.