Dispensationalism

[Drew0426]

It maybe bigger in my region of the US. (The Southeast) where Baptist, Hypercalvinism, and non-denom certainly dominate our region. And it seemed to have taken a foothold inside the Plymouth Brethren (source Dave Macpherson, The Rapture Plot. The Kingdom of the Cults Walter Martin Ph d ) The Adventist Churches and the wholeof the Independent Baptist, American Baptist, Primitive Baptist, Hypercalvinist groups and splinters many many of the modern Presbyterian groups home churches and so on. It tends to radiate from the members. Fundamentalism seems to have a massive hold in the Southeastern region and certainly in other areas and with it comes pre millenialism (a marker of “the Fundamentals” I think the Missouri Synods and Wisconsi Synods are currently divided over millenialism (source a local Wisconsin Synod Pastor who is a millenialist) I’m a newbie Catholic, (2 years) and two say the least this is one of the more distressing dogmas inside hyper fundamental churches. Many of them especially literalists believe premillenialism to be a necessity for salvation too (source Southern Baptist Convention Declarations) Now I do understand of course there are many who are not Pre millenials, but at least with what I’ve seen and read it seems to be a majority, maybe not. Thanks for the info

That’s true- I just moved to Iowa from Georgia. HUGE difference in religious views!

 

[JonNC]

It maybe bigger in my region of the US. (The Southeast) where Baptist, Hypercalvinism, and non-denom certainly dominate our region. And it seemed to have taken a foothold inside the Plymouth Brethren (source Dave Macpherson, The Rapture Plot. The Kingdom of the Cults Walter Martin Ph d ) The Adventist Churches and the wholeof the Independent Baptist, American Baptist, Primitive Baptist, Hypercalvinist groups and splinters many many of the modern Presbyterian groups home churches and so on. It tends to radiate from the members. Fundamentalism seems to have a massive hold in the Southeastern region and certainly in other areas and with it comes pre millenialism (a marker of “the Fundamentals” I think the Missouri Synods and Wisconsi Synods are currently divided over millenialism (source a local Wisconsin Synod Pastor who is a millenialist) I’m a newbie Catholic, (2 years) and two say the least this is one of the more distressing dogmas inside hyper fundamental churches. Many of them especially literalists believe premillenialism to be a necessity for salvation too (source Southern Baptist Convention Declarations) Now I do understand of course there are many who are not Pre millenials, but at least with what I’ve seen and read it seems to be a majority, maybe not. Thanks for the info

I’m sure you’d find that the WELS pastor is well outside the Lutheran norm on this matter. My understanding of the WELS / LCMS division has much more to do with fellowship, but I could be wrong.

JOn

 

[Jon_Hus]

I consider myself to be a person who holds to dispensational theology.

There are a few posts that nip around the edges but no one has defined it properly. It is not my wish to define it for anyone as I feel that anyone who wants to know about it will find out for themselves rather than take some guy on the internets word for it.

I will say a few things though, most people define it by some of it’s more noticable features, such as end times. Dispensationalism is not an end times teaching, rather it is a system for viewing the Bible. In evangelical circles, the major “other” theology to Dispensationalism is Covenant Theology. Rome is closer in it’s teaching to Covenant theology than to Dispensationalism.

A non-denominational church can be dispensational or it can be something else. A non-denominational church is a church that simply isn’t associated with a demonination, they could decide on what ever theology they desire. To give an example, a Southern Baptist church is demoninational but the individual local church could be dispensational or covenant or some other different thing.

If anyone has a specific question regarding Dispensationalism or better yet would like recommendations for books and things for further study feel free to ask. But to give a broad definition to Dispensationalism would be like trying to give a definition to Roman Catholic theology, it would take time and a willing student.

 

[John7]

If anyone has a specific question regarding Dispensationalism …feel free to ask.

I don’t understand why (from a scriptural point of view) dispensationalists don’t believe that Christ is reigning right now (if I even have that right? )

-and also-

what to make of this
“Dispensation of the fulness of times
The dispensation of the fulness of times is the last dispensation before the second coming of Jesus Christ. It was begun with the restoration of the church in 1830 and continued with the restoration of all the priesthood keys of each prior dispensation restored.” en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dispensationalist_theology

what is meant the restoration of the church, what needs to be restored, what happened in 1830?

thanks

 

[JHow]

…what is meant the restoration of the church, what needs to be restored, what happened in 1830?

Probably meaning the beginning of the ‘restoration movement’ and the Cane Ridge (KY) Revival, which is where the Campbellite church I referenced in my post had its origins.

 

[Robert_in_SD]

I came from such a church, so maybe i can help a little.

“Non-denominational” refers mostly to the lack of a hierarchy or larger structure. While such a church may belong to a larger intellectual movement (like the Campbellite church I belonged to), the actual congregation was independent (financially, etc.), really its own church unit.

In the way these groups will use the term “denomination”, it largely refers to clarifying the distinctions between various protestant groups (e.g., General Assoc. of Regular Baptist, Disciples of Christ, etc.); it is classification. Catholics, however, do not use this term to refer to the Church, and you will see on these boards that it raises hackles if anyone calls the Catholic Church a denomination.

Dispensationalism relates to some groups understandings of the end times, or eschatology. A non-denominational church does not necessarily have to hold to some form of dispensationalist teaching, although they might in this particular case. In dipensationalist thinking, the term “dispensation” refers to periods in history as defined by Gods relationship to man. There are several branches and schemes of dispensationalist thought. Fundamentalism is a 20th century protestant movement, which if memory serves, came out of Presbyterian churches, but basically characterizes an approach to theology, relying on certain “fundamental” beliefs as forming the core of their belief system. A non-denominational church can be fundamental.

One of the (ahem) problems with a non-denominational church is that it is its own teaching authority. What is taught on any given Sunday can very much vary depending on who is teaching it.

So in my view, non-denominational is mainly how the church is organized (ecclesiology), fundamental is a theological approach, and dispensationalism is a specific set of teachings about God and history with special focus on eschatology.

Great post JHow.

I would add on that Carl Olson wrote a book called: “Will Catholics be Left Behind” that discusses the history of the dispensationalist movement and where it collides with Catholic doctrine. I thought it was a really interesting read.

Also, Karl Keating’s book, Catholicism and Fundamentalism is a great book that highlights the many doctrinal issues as between Catholics and Fundamentalists. Another easy and informative source for a lot of the questions that will spring from the OP.

Peace,
Robert

 

[JustaServant]

In the town I live in, there’s a church that calls itself a “non-denominational” Bible church. The way I read this statement, “non” negates “de,” meaning that the church is claiming it is the original “nomination.”

Am I right to assume that the church is Dipensationalist (if that’s a word)? I’ve asked one or two of the members, but they haven’t heard of Dispensationalism (not a surprise, as it’s a pretty big word, and doesn’t support their claims of apostolic consistency as well as the title of “non-denominational”). The people who belong to this church believe that they are staying true to original apostolic teachings. Also, looking on the church’s official statement of beliefs on their website regarding Jesus, I encountered this:

“We believe that in fulfillment of prophecy He came first to Israel as her Messiah-King, and that, being rejected of that nation, He, according to the eternal counsels of God, gave His life as a ransom for all.” from lemarsbiblechurch.org/home/we-believe2

Assuming that they are Dispensationalist, what evidence is there to refute, or to support their claims of teaching as the Apostles did?

Also, a few questions about non-denominational jargon that I’d love some help with:

What’s the difference between Fundamentalism and Dispensationalism?

Are these two terms mutually exclusive (i.e., can you be both Fundamentalist and Dispensationalist)?

Am I right in thinking that a “denomination” is a group that’s broken off of another?

Dispensationalism, a theology I once believed in and taught, was created in the 19th century and has as its foundation end-times prophecy. It reached its zenith in the 1960s and 70s with Hal Lindsay’s “Late Great Planet Earth”. Since then its popularity has waned and fallen on hard times. Books and movies like “Left Behind” tried to revive it, but IMHO, only succeeded in showing what a fantasy it is.
As to your question, fundamentalism and dispensationalism go hand in hand.

 

[Jon_Hus]

I don’t understand why (from a scriptural point of view) dispensationalists don’t believe that Christ is reigning right now (if I even have that right? )

Not all dispensationalist hold to the exact same thinking on all areas, in other words it is not a monolithic body of believers. I will give you my thoughts on the kingdom but please remember that I don’t speak for anyone else but myself. I will admit that I haven’t completly made up my mind of the kingdom issue and as such open to ideas as long as a Biblical case can be made for it.

First of all, Jesus, who is the Logos (John 1:1) and is fully God, this Jesus created all things and sustains all things and is in every way God, fully divine and in addition, is a member of the triune God of the Bible, He is the only God, there is no other. Since Jesus is God, he is in control and as he is in heaven, his kingdom has always existed.

Now, Jesus told us that His kingdom, which is an everlasting kingdom is developing, in the process of developing and will come in it’s fullness. I believe that while Jesus being God is in control of all things, he will also usher in a kingdom on earth. Premill - dispensationalists believe that the kingdom that Jesus will usher in on earth will
begin once Jesus returns (at the second coming) and he will set up a 1000 year kingdom on earth. It will be during this time that the Israelites will come to believe in Jesus as their Messiah. After the 1000 years are concluded, Jesus will usher in the eternal state with the New Jerusalem on the New Earth.

Evangelical Covenant Theology and to an extent Catholics believe that the kingdom is realized now in the Church. So Dispensationalist differ in that they teach that the kingdom is not the Church, while agreeing that the church has some of the aspects of the kingdom but not all.

Evangelicals of the covenant A-MILL school believe that there is no literal 1000 year earthly kingdom and agree with Catholics that we are now living in the kingdom, however Covenant A-Mills and Catholics differ on the definition of the Church. So in short, Catholics believe the kingdom of Christ is found in the Church, pre-Mil dispensationalist believe that the kingdom is a future thing.

As for the other things you ask, I don’t think they have anything to do with dispensationalism but rather they look like something simular to seventh day adventism.

 

[pipper]

I don’t understand why (from a scriptural point of view) dispensationalists don’t believe that Christ is reigning right now (if I even have that right? )

-and also-

what to make of this
“Dispensation of the fulness of times
The dispensation of the fulness of times is the last dispensation before the second coming of Jesus Christ. It was begun with the restoration of the church in 1830 and continued with the restoration of all the priesthood keys of each prior dispensation restored.” en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dispensationalist_theology

what is meant the restoration of the church, what needs to be restored, what happened in 1830?

thanks

“Keys to the priesthood” would indicate that came from a mormon source.

I too came from the campbellite “church of Christ”, and Mormons and Campbellites have a lot in common. Including the false “apostacy-restoration” dichotomy.