Disproving the Catholic faith (PLEASE READ)

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Wow! Thanks to you and everyone for their comments! I just wish the priest would call me back. I have left 3 voicemails in 3 days. I dont want to pester him any more. Tomorow I will go to the early morning mass and try to speak with him after. is this against custom?
If you are having trouble seeing the priest, find out when the scheduled confession time is, go there and talk to him in the confessional. While there, you can probably set up a follow-up meeting. That is what I did! 🙂

May God richly bless you! :gopray2:
 
If you were once persuaded that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law (Rom 3:28) and now you believe that you must not only have faith but but also *merit *grace in order to attain eternal life (CCC 2010), how much works must you do to attain justification?
Our initial forgiveness and justification are not something we can earn as by our own works. Our sinful nature prevents us. But God in His mercy has canceled the debt of our sins because of the advocacy of His Son and the intercession of the Spirit. All he asks is that we repent of our sins and believe in the words of His Son. Then, God in His infinite love grants us the grace of justification. He thus puts us into the “state of grace” as it is called in Catholic circles. Maintaining that state through good works, which stem from our faith in Christ, is essential to salvation because nothing unclean will ever enter into Heaven.

This is why the CCC (2008) tells us how “[t]he merit of man before God in the Christian life arises from the fact that God has freely chosen to associate man with the work of his grace. The fatherly action of God is first on his own initiative, and then follows man’s free acting through his collaboration, so that the merit of good works is to be attributed in the first place to the grace of God, then to the faithful. Man’s merit, moreover, itself is due to God, for his good actions proceed in Christ, from the predispositions and assistance given by the Holy Spirit.”

In answer to your question, then, the amount and degree of good works a person must do in order to enter Heaven depends on his disposition and on God’s eternal decrees. A man can only do good works if he is acting according to the grace which God has given him; so if God gives one man little grace and another man great grace, then the first may not have the ability to do the works that the other man does. God alone knows how his end will be.
Since you apparently now believe in purgatory, I must ask … say I were a fellow Catholic and my dear wife or other family member dies. How many masses must I pay for to be said in their name, or how many indulgences purchased before he/she receives enough grace from the treasury of merit before she makes it out?
Again this is a very subjective matter, depending much on the condition of the dead. The Holy Spirit always intercedes for those in Purgatory (Romans 8:26-27, Rev. 14:13); in that last passage you can see how important good works are in this process. Compare this with 1st Corinthians 3:11-15, where St. Paul describes the process as a flame which tests both the good works and the bad. The good works survive and because of that we receive our rewards. But the evil works (which are sins) are purged and we suffer as a result.

So in answer to your question, the amount of prayers by you, your family, and the Holy Spirit which are needed depends on the amount and degree of works done by the penitent departed one. His own good works should help him through the process, and of course the Holy Spirit’s intercessions are the most powerful because in Him subsists the divine nature.

By St. Paul’s example we discerns that it is good to pray for those who are being judged (2nd Timothy 1:16-18), and of course this would include the process of purgation which the Church associates with our judgement. So you ought to continue to pray always and everywhere, because only God knows what will be necessary for your loved one’s expiation.
Please don’t take my question wrong and I mean no disrespect but as you reflect on an answer, how do you view it in light of Galatians 5:1-5 (namely verse 4)?
In that passage, St. Paul reminds the Galatians that Christians are no longer bound to the law of Moses, and rebukes those who try to justify themselves apart from Christ. It is because we are no longer bound to the law that Christians can have the confidant assurance that our good works, being rooted in the foundation of Christ, are meritorious, as St. Paul made clear in the third chapter of 1st Corinthians. He exhorts us to build on the foundation of Christ with good works so that we will receive the reward of Heaven when we are judged good and faithful – thus we merit our final sanctification by acting in accordance with God’s grace, as explained in the CCC (2010).
To my Catholic friends reading this I ask … If you were to die tonight and God’s standard is His holy law, namely the 10 commandments, who here can stand before Him and claim to have followed it throughout their entire life (not to mention faithfully keeping all the sacraments, laws of the church, etc.)? Would you be innocent or guilty?
No one living today can claim to have kept the commandments without fail. Apart from God, we would all be guilty before His eyes. But we may rejoice in the fact that He, in His loving mercy, has opened a way for us: through the Sacraments of the Church and the charity which these Sacraments stir into us, we can maintain our graceful state before God through frequent confession and participation in the Lord’s Supper. Though we fall in our journey, and break the commandments, we have God’s help to get up again and repent. This is the great grace He has given us in the Catholic Church.
 
If you were once persuaded that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law (Rom 3:28) and now you believe that you must not only have faith but but also *merit *grace in order to attain eternal life (CCC 2010), how much works must you do to attain justification? Since you apparently now believe in purgatory, I must ask … say I were a fellow Catholic and my dear wife or other family member dies. How many masses must I pay for to be said in their name, or how many indulgences purchased before he/she receives enough grace from the treasury of merit before she makes it out? Please don’t take my question wrong and I mean no disrespect but as you reflect on an answer, how do you view it in light of Galatians 5:1-5 (namely verse 4)?
I almost started to answer your “questions” (which aren’t really questions at all), but then I stopped, because they are not material to the subject of the thread. You really need to start your own threads about this stuff, so that we can answer them yet again.
 
Wow! Thanks to you and everyone for their comments! I just wish the priest would call me back. I have left 3 voicemails in 3 days. I dont want to pester him any more. Tomorow I will go to the early morning mass and try to speak with him after. is this against custom?
Introduce yourself to him after (if he is available), and mention to him that you are the James who has been leaving him voicemails.

Don’t be discouraged if he’s not available; on weekdays, priests often just go straight back to their offices.

Another thing you can do is go to the main office of the Church during the day time, and introduce yourself to the secretary. You can see if she might be able to set an appointment for you with the priest. (Some priests prefer to set their own appointments, though.)
 
AMEN and Welcome Home!

My story is somewhat similar but I grew out of my Anti-Catholicism indoctrination by highschool. However I didn’t beleive the Church was “that” different than my Protestant beliefs except on a few issues.

The good thing is, your wife, even if she has been going to your Protestant Chuch is still Catholic, she just needs to go to Confession and she should be good to go.

As a Baptized Christian my guess is that you should be able to go throuigh an accelerated RCIA program, especially if you have been studying Apologetics for a while.

Also check into having your marraige blessed by a Priest. This may not be an issue since you were married in a Protestant Church but could be because she is Catholic. Blessings are always a good thing so nothing to sweat on that one. 🙂

Again, welcome home and Praise the Lord!

Joe
 
I will definitely pray for you, but embrace the year ahead. It may be long, but RCIA is a humbling experience that will spiritually bless you. Take up your cross.

🙂
Hugo
 
Hello all, this is my first post, so please allow me to introduce myself. My name is Jamison. I am a 29 yr old male. I am from a protestant faith background. I was baptised on september 6, 1998 at the age of 18, 1 day after recieving what I call a vision. I went to ministry school shortly after this for a time but decided it was not for me.
… I have discovered that the Roman Catholic Church really is the one true Church that Christ has founded. This has serious implications in my life. I have many people to answer to that I’ve help’d lead away from the Catholic church.I have friends and family to answer to. I fight for a living and am not sure how this will be recieved either. All this is okay though because I am on fire. I feel so close to home.
I went to a mass sunday morning but did not recieve the Eucharist of course. I assume I will need to attend RCIA and am saddend to learn on here that it will take almost a year to be confirmed into the church and recieve the Eucharist. I have contacted my local priest for three days but have yet to hear back unfortunately.
I owe many thanks to many people in the apologetics forums here, I have digested everything possible on here for the last 8 weeks. Many thanks will be sent personally. I still consider all christians my brothers and sisters. I must say my only disapointment is that some on here have been incredibly sarcastic and demeaning, I have to question one’s own insecurities when they respond in such a way. It certainly is never becoming to their spirit and totally with out any merit whatsoever. Hopefully the moderators will keep a watchfull eye on this, from all sides.
I feel so close to home and can’t wait for the priest to finally contact me so I can move on from here and be welcomed into the fulness of truth, the Roman Catholic Church.
I welcome comments and pm’s form anyone. Thanks to all on here.
Jamison
Hi Jamison,
I apologize for those who have been uncharitable. I can only say that some get in the habit of responding in kind to some of the very hateful anti-catholics who occasionally post here.

Please don’t wait for the priest, remember the parable of the widow and the unjust judge. The priests are besieged constantly so be persistant. Just keep attending Mass and speak to him personally after Mass and tell him you are interested in entering the Catholic Church. You can also call the parish and ask to speak to the DRE (director of religious education). Of course you can also attend other parishes and see if you can get in there.

One place where you may find considerable help is the Coming Home Network. chnetwork.org/.
The purpose of The Coming Home Network International (CHNetwork) is to provide fellowship, encouragement and support for pastors and laymen of other faith traditions who are somewhere along the journey to the Catholic Church. The CHNetwork is committed to assisting and standing beside all inquirers, serving as a friend and an advocate. There are many there who have been Pastors of large congregations. They may be able to help you find out how they make a living now that they have left the ministry. Some have chosen to remain in ministry and have become priests.

May the grace and peace of God descend upon you and remain with you forever.
 
Dear Jamison,
Praise Jesus and Mary!! Your story is truly inspiring and I have a feeling you will be bringing many others Home. As I tell my catechism students, “Being a Catholic isn’t for wimps!” But it is truly worth EVERYTHING!! Follow all of the church’s teaching, especially as it pertains to NFP, and the blessings of new life. You will be truly rich my friend! I will pray for you in your journey.

In Jesus and Mary,
cac926
 
Greetings Jamison,

If you were once persuaded that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law (Rom 3:28) and now you believe that you must not only have faith but but also *merit *grace in order to attain eternal life (CCC 2010), how much works must you do to attain justification? Since you apparently now believe in purgatory, I must ask … say I were a fellow Catholic and my dear wife or other family member dies. How many masses must I pay for to be said in their name, or how many indulgences purchased before he/she receives enough grace from the treasury of merit before she makes it out? Please don’t take my question wrong and I mean no disrespect but as you reflect on an answer, how do you view it in light of Galatians 5:1-5 (namely verse 4)?

To my Catholic friends reading this I ask … If you were to die tonight and God’s standard is His holy law, namely the 10 commandments, who here can stand before Him and claim to have followed it throughout their entire life (not to mention faithfully keeping all the sacraments, laws of the church, etc.)? Would you be innocent or guilty?

If guilty … the answer to the question, “How can I stand justified before a Holy God?” becomes an eternally essential doctrine to know and understand because it determines our eternal destiny.

Written with love,
theLogos
It’s apparent that “theLogos” is misinformed about Catholic theology in regard to justification. As mentioned earlier, this belongs in a different thread.

Welcome back, Jamison! :dancing:
 
Jamision regarding your friends and family simply start by asking each one individualy what urks them the most about the catholic faith. If you know your stuff you will have no problem sharing your fire with othersand it will radiate to them.
 
Hello all, this is my first post, so please allow me to introduce myself. My name is Jamison. I am a 29 yr old male. I am from a protestant faith background. I was baptised on september 6, 1998 at the age of 18, 1 day after recieving what I call a vision. I went to ministry school shortly after this for a time but decided it was not for me.
2 months ago my girlfriends father passed away from bone cancer (please pray if you remember for him and his family). Though he was a Catholic as is his wife, his daughter and I were not, mainly because I led his daughter away from the catholic faith and into protestantism.
March 3rd Andy passed away. A few day’s later at his Catholic funeral, his daughter and I recieved “communion” out of “respect” for him and his wife. I am convinced something happened when I recieved the Eucharist. That night, a friend of mine informed me that Catholics believed in the literal interpretation of 1 Cor: 27-30 and that I was guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. This sounding quite serious and a tad offensive to me, made me set out to disprove that verse as well as the Catholic faith in general (I actually thought this would be of little trouble).
I have a scholarly mind. I decided the best way to do this investigation was to purchase the best books on both sides. I purchased many books from Catholic apologists such as Dave Armstrong and Patrick Madrid. Also many on the protestant side, such as James McCarthy, Toney Coffey and James White. Also, I purchase debate dvd’s and watched many on the internet. I also used 4 different Bible translations. This was very thourough research.
I broke the topics up one at a time. I studied Sola Scriptura defense, teaching and ruling authority,Salvation, worship, veneration of saints and Church history.
To my very amazement, I have discovered that the Roman Catholic Church really is the one true Church that Christ has founded. This has serious implications in my life. I have many people to answer to that I’ve help’d lead away from the Catholic church.I have friends and family to answer to. I fight for a living and am not sure how this will be recieved either. All this is okay though because I am on fire. I feel so close to home.
I went to a mass sunday morning but did not recieve the Eucharist of course. I assume I will need to attend RCIA and am saddend to learn on here that it will take almost a year to be confirmed into the church and recieve the Eucharist. I have contacted my local priest for three days but have yet to hear back unfortunately.
I owe many thanks to many people in the apologetics forums here, I have digested everything possible on here for the last 8 weeks. Many thanks will be sent personally. I still consider all christians my brothers and sisters. I must say my only disapointment is that some on here have been incredibly sarcastic and demeaning, I have to question one’s own insecurities when they respond in such a way. It certainly is never becoming to their spirit and totally with out any merit whatsoever. Hopefully the moderators will keep a watchfull eye on this, from all sides.
I feel so close to home and can’t wait for the priest to finally contact me so I can move on from here and be welcomed into the fulness of truth, the Roman Catholic Church.
I welcome comments and pm’s form anyone. Thanks to all on here.
Jamison
All I can say is:

😃 😃 WELCOME HOME!!! 😃 😃
:clapping: :extrahappy: :extrahappy: :clapping:
 
Jamison, welcome to the one true apostolic Catholic Faith! The Church is a spiritual treasure house with just an incredible access to grace in the sacraments as well as special devotionals. There is so much rich tradition, sense of genuine universal family, history, saints and their writings that you could spend a life time absorbing it all. WELCOME!

I recommend that in your spare time when you are not studying CCD start studying the saints. Find one that you can really identity with and take their life as a special inspiration and start making them a spiritual “buddy” and ask for their intercession and help. The saints absolutely love to help us and intercede for us and God also loves to honor them by granting special intercessional graces for those that take a special following to His saints. I recommend looking into St. Joseph and of course St. Mary.

I have some good news for you. You don’t have to wait for a full confirmation into the Catholic Church to receive The Eucharist! There is a special form of communion called - Spiritual Communion that God may grant you at His discretion since you can not receive yet but desire to. You can do this any number of times per day and there is no danger of receiving unworthily since its a request to Jesus directly. Jesus will gladly honor your request for spiritual communion if you are in a sufficient state of grace. If you are not then He will use your request in some other way - perhaps to give you special graces to help you repent genuinely and perfectly for past sins when its time to make your first confessional. I recommend saying the act of contrition immediately before this prayer.

Here is a simple prayer requesting Jesus to give you Spiritual Communion:

Spiritual Communion Prayer
My Jesus, I believe that You are present in the Most Holy Sacrament. I love You above all things, and I desire to receive You into my soul. Since I cannot at this moment receive You sacramentally, come at least spiritually into my heart. I embrace You as if You were already there and unite myself wholly to You.
Never permit me to be separated from You.

Here is a link to a lot more prayers and other versions of Spiritual Communion Prayer. My favorite is version #2.

catholic.org/clife/prayers/prayer.php?p=1066

Another thing I recommend is to start an immediate 9 day novena of the Divine Mercy Chaplet (see my signature link). These simple and powerful prayers take only 5 or so minutes to say. Jesus gave us these prayers through a vision to one of our saints (St. Faustina). The promise is assurances of Divine Mercy at the hour of our death no matter how grave our sins are if these are said even a single time at the “hour of Christ’s death” (3PM). Say these for your family and friends too daily since its an extremely effective prayer and is always heard. The prayers can be said on either a regular rosary or a specially made Divine Mercy Chaplet (which is only very slightly different than a regular rosary). So I recommend you go right out and buy your first rosary and get it blessed by a priest or deacon on your way out of mass when you see him outside meeting the exiting congregation. This and of course the rosary is an excellent spiritual weapon to help your friends as well as your self. I say it daily for any person that I ever caused to sin in my past life and for the repentance and conversion of the world at large. Especially say this chaplet in the presence of anyone you know that is dying and Jesus in his infinite mercy will find a way to grant them His Divine Mercy even if they lived a terrible life and are in grave sin. This is an amazing promise and devotion and is very easy to say daily and can be merited to you as a work of faith.

BTW, Satan is now furious with you for coming into the faith and will try to get you to deviate from your path or discourage you. Say prayers asking for St. Michael’s protection every morning and evening to completely put Satan behind you and silence Him. He is powerless now that you have the truth.

God Bless,
James
 
Welcome home Jamison. Just continue what your doing, your on the right track. Most Parishes have a person that runs the RCIA program. You can most likely find out who that is by looking in the Church Bulletin. The Priest, has others have pointed out are very busy. You can also call the parish office and get the name and phone number of the person running the program. Good luck my friend, I’ll send up some prayers for you.
 
God Bless you on your journey. It’s a difficult burden to take, but not impossible. I only wish some of my friends would make the same choice that you are, instead of leading themselves into darkness. I have so many morally relativistic friends that it’s not even funny. But I am happy for you.
 
Wow! Thanks to you and everyone for their comments! I just wish the priest would call me back. I have left 3 voicemails in 3 days. I dont want to pester him any more. Tomorow I will go to the early morning mass and try to speak with him after. is this against custom?
I’m also a convert! WELCOME HOME!! 👍 Look in the parish bulletin, there may be a section on “inquiry sessions” or one that says “interested in being catholic?”. Those sections should give you dates and times to come meet (usually with others) the priest and/or RCIA team. That’s what I did, and since I knew I told them on day one I was ready. So I started RCIA 🙂 Unfortunately I got lumped together with people who didn’t have in Christian training, even though I’d been a non-denom for all my life. shrug I loved the priest (he taught RCIA) so it was well worth it.
 
I’m also a convert! WELCOME HOME!! 👍 Look in the parish bulletin, there may be a section on “inquiry sessions” or one that says “interested in being catholic?”. Those sections should give you dates and times to come meet (usually with others) the priest and/or RCIA team. That’s what I did, and since I knew I told them on day one I was ready. So I started RCIA 🙂 Unfortunately I got lumped together with people who didn’t have in Christian training, even though I’d been a non-denom for all my life. shrug I loved the priest (he taught RCIA) so it was well worth it.
In my dream world, every parish has a separate program for baptized, mature Christians, as the RCIA guidelines themselves call for. :gopray2:
 
Praise God and welcome home! Thank you for sharing your story. Keep on studying like your doing!
 
Hello all, this is my first post, so please allow me to introduce myself. My name is Jamison. I am a 29 yr old male. I am from a protestant faith background. I was baptised on september 6, 1998 at the age of 18, 1 day after recieving what I call a vision. I went to ministry school shortly after this for a time but decided it was not for me.
2 months ago my girlfriends father passed away from bone cancer (please pray if you remember for him and his family). Though he was a Catholic as is his wife, his daughter and I were not, mainly because I led his daughter away from the catholic faith and into protestantism.
March 3rd Andy passed away. A few day’s later at his Catholic funeral, his daughter and I recieved “communion” out of “respect” for him and his wife. I am convinced something happened when I recieved the Eucharist. That night, a friend of mine informed me that Catholics believed in the literal interpretation of 1 Cor: 27-30 and that I was guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. This sounding quite serious and a tad offensive to me, made me set out to disprove that verse as well as the Catholic faith in general (I actually thought this would be of little trouble).
I have a scholarly mind. I decided the best way to do this investigation was to purchase the best books on both sides. I purchased many books from Catholic apologists such as Dave Armstrong and Patrick Madrid. Also many on the protestant side, such as James McCarthy, Toney Coffey and James White. Also, I purchase debate dvd’s and watched many on the internet. I also used 4 different Bible translations. This was very thourough research.
I broke the topics up one at a time. I studied Sola Scriptura defense, teaching and ruling authority,Salvation, worship, veneration of saints and Church history.
To my very amazement, I have discovered that the Roman Catholic Church really is the one true Church that Christ has founded. This has serious implications in my life. I have many people to answer to that I’ve help’d lead away from the Catholic church.I have friends and family to answer to. I fight for a living and am not sure how this will be recieved either. All this is okay though because I am on fire. I feel so close to home.
I went to a mass sunday morning but did not recieve the Eucharist of course. I assume I will need to attend RCIA and am saddend to learn on here that it will take almost a year to be confirmed into the church and recieve the Eucharist. I have contacted my local priest for three days but have yet to hear back unfortunately.
I owe many thanks to many people in the apologetics forums here, I have digested everything possible on here for the last 8 weeks. Many thanks will be sent personally. I still consider all christians my brothers and sisters. I must say my only disapointment is that some on here have been incredibly sarcastic and demeaning, I have to question one’s own insecurities when they respond in such a way. It certainly is never becoming to their spirit and totally with out any merit whatsoever. Hopefully the moderators will keep a watchfull eye on this, from all sides.
I feel so close to home and can’t wait for the priest to finally contact me so I can move on from here and be welcomed into the fulness of truth, the Roman Catholic Church.
I welcome comments and pm’s form anyone. Thanks to all on here.
Jamison
Congratulations and welcome home.

I kinda don’t understand your title though.
 
Again I thank you all! All of you are so kind and many have taken the same journey as I have. I wish I could know and talk with you all personally. Especially since I’ve no Catholic friends to talk to. Perhaps I will have no friends now as most will be saddened with me. Even my girlfriend may go her own way. It’s a small cross to bear though to know the fullness of truth.
A small update on my situation, I went to three different churchesin my city today. I had interviews with a priest at each. One recommended me to the “Jesuits” and said he feels I should be learning from then and that I was on “fire”. Another actually interviewed me for over and hour, I feel like he knows my life story now. he finally insited that he have his acquaintance call me. The priest that was his acquaintance did call me this evening and asked me what I know about “Opus Day”, and I told him I know nothing about it. He is going to meet me saturday at my house, which I think is great. he gave the impression that I sould stick with him and seems to have taken a great interest in with me. What does anyone know about his opus day program? Is this a faster program of RCIA? I just want be part of the church as soon as possible. Thanks you all for your prayers!
 
Again I thank you all! All of you are so kind and many have taken the same journey as I have. I wish I could know and talk with you all personally. Especially since I’ve no Catholic friends to talk to. Perhaps I will have no friends now as most will be saddened with me. Even my girlfriend may go her own way. It’s a small cross to bear though to know the fullness of truth.
A small update on my situation, I went to three different churchesin my city today. I had interviews with a priest at each. One recommended me to the “Jesuits” and said he feels I should be learning from then and that I was on “fire”. Another actually interviewed me for over and hour, I feel like he knows my life story now. he finally insited that he have his acquaintance call me. The priest that was his acquaintance did call me this evening and asked me what I know about “Opus Day”, and I told him I know nothing about it. He is going to meet me saturday at my house, which I think is great. he gave the impression that I sould stick with him and seems to have taken a great interest in with me. What does anyone know about his opus day program? Is this a faster program of RCIA? I just want be part of the church as soon as possible. Thanks you all for your prayers!
A good idea for you: get a copy of the Catechism. Or you can find a copy here: scborromeo.org/ccc/ccc_toc.htm
It’s the official rule/guide book to our Church. It helps to have one handy.

BTW, it’s Opus Dei, and they’re not really another initiation program, but an organization in and of themselves. So it wouldn’t (probably) speed up your conversion. I don’t know that much about them, but they are a very benevolent organization, from what I have heard.
 
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