Disproving the Catholic faith (PLEASE READ)

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Originally Posted by **theLogos **
Greetings Jamison,

To my Catholic friends reading this I ask … If you were to die tonight and God’s standard is His holy law, namely the 10 commandments, who here can stand before Him and claim to have followed it throughout their entire life (not to mention faithfully keeping all the sacraments, laws of the church, etc.)? Would you be innocent or guilty?

If guilty … the answer to the question, “How can I stand justified before a Holy God?” becomes an eternally essential doctrine to know and understand because it determines our eternal destiny.

Written with love,
theLogos

What is Christ’s Commandment? I would think that is what we are going to be judged on.
 
jamison said:
This sounding quite serious and a tad offensive to me, made me set out to disprove that verse as well as the Catholic faith in general (I actually thought this would be of little trouble).
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Next thing you need to do is set out to disprove the Orthodox faith 😉 😃
John
 
jamison said:
Again I thank you all! All of you are so kind and many have taken the same journey as I have. I wish I could know and talk with you all personally. Especially since I’ve no Catholic friends to talk to. Perhaps I will have no friends now as most will be saddened with me. Even my girlfriend may go her own way. It’s a small cross to bear though to know the fullness of truth.
A small update on my situation, I went to three different churchesin my city today. I had interviews with a priest at each. One recommended me to the “Jesuits” and said he feels I should be learning from then and that I was on “fire”. Another actually interviewed me for over and hour, I feel like he knows my life story now. he finally insited that he have his acquaintance call me. The priest that was his acquaintance did call me this evening and asked me what I know about “Opus Day”, and I told him I know nothing about it. He is going to meet me saturday at my house, which I think is great. he gave the impression that I sould stick with him and seems to have taken a great interest in with me. What does anyone know about his opus day program? Is this a faster program of RCIA? I just want be part of the church as soon as possible. Thanks you all for your prayers!
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Welcome home Jamison :byzsoc: .
These stories may be of interest to you as well!
The Journey Home Show:
http://www.ewtn.com/vondemand/audio/seriessearchprog.asp?seriesID=-6892289&T1=
God Bless You.
Catherine
PS…Opus Dei
http://www.opusdei.ca/sec.php?s=510
.
.
 
jamison said:
Again I thank you all! All of you are so kind and many have taken the same journey as I have. I wish I could know and talk with you all personally. Especially since I’ve no Catholic friends to talk to. Perhaps I will have no friends now as most will be saddened with me. Even my girlfriend may go her own way. It’s a small cross to bear though to know the fullness of truth.
A small update on my situation, I went to three different churchesin my city today. I had interviews with a priest at each. One recommended me to the “Jesuits” and said he feels I should be learning from then and that I was on “fire”. Another actually interviewed me for over and hour, I feel like he knows my life story now. he finally insited that he have his acquaintance call me. The priest that was his acquaintance did call me this evening and asked me what I know about “Opus Day”, and I told him I know nothing about it. He is going to meet me saturday at my house, which I think is great. he gave the impression that I sould stick with him and seems to have taken a great interest in with me. What does anyone know about his opus day program? Is this a faster program of RCIA? I just want be part of the church as soon as possible. Thanks you all for your prayers!
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I am sorry to say Opus Dei unfortunately has a little bit of a checkered past. They used to tend toward some extreme practises. There are a few members who are a little “out there” and some reports that there have been some abuses of recruitment practises and tendencies toward cult like status and elitism. I’d recommend that you first get a good basic foundation in the CCD and indoctrination and stay centered on the faith before you start getting too attached to anyone special religious order such as OD or any of the secular 3rd orders (Carmalites, Dominicans, etc.). Focus first on the basics then the spirit will guide you to the more advanced religious orders and the special calling that God has for you.

The Dominicans have an incredible rosary lay co-fraternity that you can join right now (again see my link) that permits you to combine your prayers with the fraternity and receive extraordinary graces and indulgences on special liturgical feast days (many full plenary indulgences) and to do The Spirit’s works. It’s an excellent spiritual devotional and work and this order will benefit you all your life and again in purgatory if you have to spend anytime there when God calls you home to Himself. We are called to be spiritual warriors to help our brothers who are fallen into errors of the world. Prayer is our best weapon and adding our prayers in these kinds of devotionals is like a spiritual force multiplier that makes us individually very formidable spiritual warriors for God.

James
 
Hi there,

I normally don’t write postings because I’ve got too much on my plate already. However, this post just got too interesting not to join the fray.

I was almost exactly in your position back in 2002. I knew I wanted to become Catholic and after approaching a few priests I decided to contact Opus Dei myself. I was intrigued by Jack Chick citing them as an ‘arch-enemy’ along with the Jesuits: surely, this must mean they would be supremely Catholic and worth a look!

I got their telephone number from the local Diocesan Year Book. The priest who answered the phone was intensely interested in my story. We met up individually for almost 40 sessions and this Doctor of Theology gave me an amazingly thorough, utterly orthodox and truly inspirational course of instruction leading to my reception into the Church in June 2003.

I simply give the highest recommendation to an ‘Opus Dei’ course of instruction, It will be the Catechism of the Catholic Church and the wisdom of St Thomas Aquinas, all the way. Wonderful!

I would not take any notice of the Opus Dei critiques, they are usually based on:
  1. the arguments of Catholic liberals
  2. Opus Dei’s connections with Franco’s fascist government in Spain. See Warren Carroll’s *Last Crusade: Spain 1936 *
    amazon.com/Last-Crusade-Warren-H-Carroll/dp/0931888670
  3. misunderstandings by ‘conservative’ Catholics living in countries where the practise of the Faith has often been quite distorted by the Enlightenment. Unbashedly, I declare the most authentic renditions of Catholicism can be seen in the recusant Catholic nations of the Mediterranean. Opus Dei is of Spanish origin.
  4. other misunderstandings. Opus Dei is loyal to the Pope and fully orthodox. Period.
The Opus Dei priest will be in no hurry to fast-track you into the Church (in my experience) but it will be one of the best and most orthodox ways into full communion with the Catholic Church.

Do not turn to the left or the right. I stumbled for a while thinking I might become Eastern Orthodox and the Opus Dei priest dealt with my meanderings with the greatest of unpressured nobility. Remember, above all "apologetics’ and ‘scripture-crunching’ that the primary reason to become a Catholic Christian is that the Church is with Peter and the gates of hell have not prevailed against her.

You can PM me if you like.
 
I have a hunch your gf’s father’s prayers had a hand in your conversion. 😉

Would you care to share about the vision you had back when you were baptized?
 
My advice would be to become just a regular Catholic first, before joining any Religious orders or taking any vows of celibacy, etc. - take a year to discern which, if any, Order (Jesuit, Opus Dei, etc.) you want to belong to, after you’ve actually become Catholic. 🙂
 
MickyR said:
Hi there,

I normally don’t write postings because I’ve got too much on my plate already. However, this post just got too interesting not to join the fray.

I was almost exactly in your position back in 2002. I knew I wanted to become Catholic and after approaching a few priests I decided to contact Opus Dei myself. I was intrigued by Jack Chick citing them as an ‘arch-enemy’ along with the Jesuits: surely, this must mean they would be supremely Catholic and worth a look!

I got their telephone number from the local Diocesan Year Book. The priest who answered the phone was intensely interested in my story. We met up individually for almost 40 sessions and this Doctor of Theology gave me an amazingly thorough, utterly orthodox and truly inspirational course of instruction leading to my reception into the Church in June 2003.

I simply give the highest recommendation to an ‘Opus Dei’ course of instruction, It will be the Catechism of the Catholic Church and the wisdom of St Thomas Aquinas, all the way. Wonderful!

I would not take any notice of the Opus Dei critiques, they are usually based on:
  1. the arguments of Catholic liberals
  2. Opus Dei’s connections with Franco’s fascist government in Spain. See Warren Carroll’s *Last Crusade: Spain 1936 *
    amazon.com/Last-Crusade-Warren-H-Carroll/dp/0931888670
  3. misunderstandings by ‘conservative’ Catholics living in countries where the practise of the Faith has often been quite distorted by the Enlightenment. Unbashedly, I declare the most authentic renditions of Catholicism can be seen in the recusant Catholic nations of the Mediterranean. Opus Dei is of Spanish origin.
  4. other misunderstandings. Opus Dei is loyal to the Pope and fully orthodox. Period.
The Opus Dei priest will be in no hurry to fast-track you into the Church (in my experience) but it will be one of the best and most orthodox ways into full communion with the Catholic Church.

Do not turn to the left or the right. I stumbled for a while thinking I might become Eastern Orthodox and the Opus Dei priest dealt with my meanderings with the greatest of unpressured nobility. Remember, above all "apologetics’ and ‘scripture-crunching’ that the primary reason to become a Catholic Christian is that the Church is with Peter and the gates of hell have not prevailed against her.

You can PM me if you like.
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You know, it is posts like these that really make me want to learn more about Opus Dei. Here is a person, who does not seem to be a member of Opus Dei itself, make a well thought out and thorough post. The very few lay Opus Dei people I have met have been, without exception, humble prayerful and pleasant people.

To the OP,

While I would echo jmcrae’s caution about joining any order and society (and I am rather suspicious of most of the current generation of Jesuits), I think finding a priest who is faithful to the teachings of the Church to guide you is a good thing.

Joining is something you ca do later. But choose your teacher well. Sadly, it is not difficult to find priests that do not support all the Catholic Church teaches. Should you encounter one who criticizes the Pope, excuses or explains away difficult teachings, or just does not seem to be a good match for you, do not be afraid to speak with another priest.
 
rpp said:
To the OP,

While I would echo jmcrae’s caution about joining any order and society (and I am rather suspicious of most of the current generation of Jesuits), I think finding a priest who is faithful to the teachings of the Church to guide you is a good thing.

Joining is something you ca do later. But choose your teacher well. Sadly, it is not difficult to find priests that do not support all the Catholic Church teaches. Should you encounter one who criticizes the Pope, excuses or explains away difficult teachings, or just does not seem to be a good match for you, do not be afraid to speak with another priest.
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Agreed. While the Jesuits are for the most part reputable people, there are some very misleading individuals in that order. Which is a good reason to be familiar with Catholic morals before you start to choose to follow any order whatsoever. It makes for another good reason to take a good hard look at the Catechism.
 
rpp said:
You know, it is posts like these that really make me want to learn more about Opus Dei. Here is a person, who does not seem to be a member of Opus Dei itself, make a well thought out and thorough post. The very few lay Opus Dei people I have met have been, without exception, humble prayerful and pleasant people.
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You are astute in recognising that I never joined Opus Dei nor was any attempt to “sign me up” ever made.

Mick
 
rpp said:
You know, it is posts like these that really make me want to learn more about Opus Dei. Here is a person, who does not seem to be a member of Opus Dei itself, make a well thought out and thorough post. The very few lay Opus Dei people I have met have been, without exception, humble prayerful and pleasant people.
Click to expand...
Of course their secrecy and privacy is legendary. As far was we know we could all be secular members of Opus Dei and quietly working our own evangelizing and supporting the Catholic Church as part of our works of faith. 👍 😉

The important thing is that new members get a solid and balanced teaching of the Catholic Faith - that is the CCD. I don’t think one can really go wrong here no matter what school or order teaches it since its all spelled out very clearly. But I have heard a few disturbing cases in some Catholic Schools where non-Catholic teachers are being hired to teach the faith while not being actual members of the church. That should not be permitted in my opinion since there is a clear conflict of conviction even if they go through the motions.

But after one becomes admitted fully into the Catholic Church there are ENORMOUS opportunities to serve God in so so many ways. We have so many religious order and special devotions and opportunities for participation in monastic life, retreats, lay groups, bereavements, social concerns, hospice, apologetics, music ministry, adoration and prayer or just good ol living as a good Christian and being an example to our own families and friends.

There is so much opportunity for service in the Catholic Church that its impossible to not be able to find a way to do good works of faith for God in some way.

James
 
jamison said:
Hello all, this is my first post, so please allow me to introduce myself. My name is Jamison. I am a 29 yr old male. I am from a protestant faith background. I was baptised on september 6, 1998 at the age of 18, 1 day after recieving what I call a vision. I went to ministry school shortly after this for a time but decided it was not for me.
2 months ago my girlfriends father passed away from bone cancer (please pray if you remember for him and his family). Though he was a Catholic as is his wife, his daughter and I were not, mainly because I led his daughter away from the catholic faith and into protestantism.
March 3rd Andy passed away. A few day’s later at his Catholic funeral, his daughter and I recieved “communion” out of “respect” for him and his wife. I am convinced something happened when I recieved the Eucharist. That night, a friend of mine informed me that Catholics believed in the literal interpretation of 1 Cor: 27-30 and that I was guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. This sounding quite serious and a tad offensive to me, made me set out to disprove that verse as well as the Catholic faith in general (I actually thought this would be of little trouble).
I have a scholarly mind. I decided the best way to do this investigation was to purchase the best books on both sides. I purchased many books from Catholic apologists such as Dave Armstrong and Patrick Madrid. Also many on the protestant side, such as James McCarthy, Toney Coffey and James White. Also, I purchase debate dvd’s and watched many on the internet. I also used 4 different Bible translations. This was very thourough research.
I broke the topics up one at a time. I studied Sola Scriptura defense, teaching and ruling authority,Salvation, worship, veneration of saints and Church history.
To my very amazement, I have discovered that the Roman Catholic Church really is the one true Church that Christ has founded. This has serious implications in my life. I have many people to answer to that I’ve help’d lead away from the Catholic church.I have friends and family to answer to. I fight for a living and am not sure how this will be recieved either. All this is okay though because I am on fire. I feel so close to home.
I went to a mass sunday morning but did not recieve the Eucharist of course. I assume I will need to attend RCIA and am saddend to learn on here that it will take almost a year to be confirmed into the church and recieve the Eucharist. I have contacted my local priest for three days but have yet to hear back unfortunately.
I owe many thanks to many people in the apologetics forums here, I have digested everything possible on here for the last 8 weeks. Many thanks will be sent personally. I still consider all christians my brothers and sisters. I must say my only disapointment is that some on here have been incredibly sarcastic and demeaning, I have to question one’s own insecurities when they respond in such a way. It certainly is never becoming to their spirit and totally with out any merit whatsoever. Hopefully the moderators will keep a watchfull eye on this, from all sides.
I feel so close to home and can’t wait for the priest to finally contact me so I can move on from here and be welcomed into the fulness of truth, the Roman Catholic Church.
I welcome comments and pm’s form anyone. Thanks to all on here.
Jamison
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HI there Jamison!
You and I are in the same boat! I just converted and I too must attend RCIA and it is a wonderful journey.

I have already found that the “honeymoon” just may be as exciting as the settling into the rites as a confessed Catholic.
I hope you enjoy the RCIA time as it is a treasure trove to walk through and it appears to be the perfect tool to maturing as a Christian.
I am so happy others are sharing this exciting adventure with me and our Lord in returning to or newly coming into the Catholic Church.
God Bless! (Fortuna, former Protestant).
 
Ceil-1 said:
I have a hunch your gf’s father’s prayers had a hand in your conversion. 😉

Would you care to share about the vision you had back when you were baptized?
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Better do that via PM… CAF will consider that a private revelation according to the Banned Topics.
 
What a great blessing the Lord Our God has given you. Let us be thankful to Him and rejoice. What you received is not of human understanding but a Divine one. Finally, your eyes have seen the truth. You have found Jesus for “Jesus is the Truth” and nothing is Untrue about Him. If you will meditate on what the Lord Jesus said; “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him.” (John 6:65). And thus, I can tell you brother in Christ, - that rejoice for "the Father enabled you’ to seek His true Church.

Continue praying for humility and grace - these are the foundation of the Catholic faith.
 
jamison said:
The priest that was his acquaintance did call me this evening and asked me what I know about “Opus Day”, and I told him I know nothing about it.
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BTW, Opus Dei has a very nice website that seems extremely above board and very friendly. The information appears to be straightforward. Happy journey!👍
 
Fortuna said:
Hi, I am sorry but I am new and I did not see under the “Banned Topics” list that private revelation is banned.
Please state the number on the banned topic list where this is so.
Thanks
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Welcome, Fortuna,

Here ya go…

26 - Promoting unapproved apparitions and revelations (those not approved by the Church for private or public devotion) or alleged private locutions

If you’re not sure on a particular topic, I’ve always found it easy to go to the list and do a quick search.

God bless,

Chris
 
MickyR said:
Hi there,

I normally don’t write postings because I’ve got too much on my plate already. However, this post just got too interesting not to join the fray.

I was almost exactly in your position back in 2002. I knew I wanted to become Catholic and after approaching a few priests I decided to contact Opus Dei myself. I was intrigued by Jack Chick citing them as an ‘arch-enemy’ along with the Jesuits: surely, this must mean they would be supremely Catholic and worth a look!

I got their telephone number from the local Diocesan Year Book. The priest who answered the phone was intensely interested in my story. We met up individually for almost 40 sessions and this Doctor of Theology gave me an amazingly thorough, utterly orthodox and truly inspirational course of instruction leading to my reception into the Church in June 2003.

I simply give the highest recommendation to an ‘Opus Dei’ course of instruction, It will be the Catechism of the Catholic Church and the wisdom of St Thomas Aquinas, all the way. Wonderful!

I would not take any notice of the Opus Dei critiques, they are usually based on:
  1. the arguments of Catholic liberals
  2. Opus Dei’s connections with Franco’s fascist government in Spain. See Warren Carroll’s *Last Crusade: Spain 1936 *
    amazon.com/Last-Crusade-Warren-H-Carroll/dp/0931888670
  3. misunderstandings by ‘conservative’ Catholics living in countries where the practise of the Faith has often been quite distorted by the Enlightenment. Unbashedly, I declare the most authentic renditions of Catholicism can be seen in the recusant Catholic nations of the Mediterranean. Opus Dei is of Spanish origin.
  4. other misunderstandings. Opus Dei is loyal to the Pope and fully orthodox. Period.
The Opus Dei priest will be in no hurry to fast-track you into the Church (in my experience) but it will be one of the best and most orthodox ways into full communion with the Catholic Church.

Do not turn to the left or the right. I stumbled for a while thinking I might become Eastern Orthodox and the Opus Dei priest dealt with my meanderings with the greatest of unpressured nobility. Remember, above all "apologetics’ and ‘scripture-crunching’ that the primary reason to become a Catholic Christian is that the Church is with Peter and the gates of hell have not prevailed against her.

You can PM me if you like.
Click to expand...
Thank you very much for the kind advice. I should have better idea after today of what is going on. I actually thought Opus Dei was a RCIA program. Silly me.

Thanks to everyone for their welcome. I had no idea so many would welcome me home. I’ve been to 6 masses this week, surely I am a sight, sitting right up front, happy as can be. Unfortunately I dont quite know the songs and sayings that every one says in unison…lol. I’m getting there though.
I truly do feel home.
Peace with you all.
 
I will simply add my WELCOME and congratulations to the others.

I also hope that you will stick around the boards. The many converts here are a great blessing in answering protestants questions and comments.

As far as the people you “led away from the faith”, just be as honest in faith with them now that you are catholic as you were when you were a protestant. Also remember that no one can be led away if they did not want, or allow themselves to be.

You are growing in faith. Share this with these friends and help them to grow in hteir faith as well.

God Bless You

Peace
James
 
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