Disputations on the Holy Scripture

  • Thread starter Thread starter Apologist78
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
A

Apologist78

Guest
Hi-

I was pleased to read the Anglican/Catholic debates on Papal Infallibility- such as those conducted by Dr. Chillingworth, Dr Littledale, Dr. Salmon, and Dr Lightfoot- and the Catholic replies. This really helped me to learn that George Salmon really did not write anything new as protestants claim, but simply systamatized and regurgitated a lot of the arguments already floating around by the protestants- which had already been answered. Salmon as I also came to discover simply regurgitated the arguments of the Gallicans in the 17th century. In any case- I digress since this is not what my thread is about.

I was simply wondering if anyone here has heard of the work “Disputations on the Holy Scripture” written by William Whitaker a puritan theologian allegidly vindicating Sola Scriptura. He wrote the work primarily as a rebuttal to Robert Bellarmine and Thomas Stapleton. This work is considered THE standard for protestants who wish to vindicate Sola Scriptura. It is said William Whitaker was so effective in his writtings and debates that he “cuts off the head of his antagonists with their own weapons.”

Are any Catholics here familiar with any specific Catholic replies which have been written to this work? If so, I would appreciate a list of them and where they might be found.

I apologize in advance if I posted this thread in the wrong discussion board- but I really did not know where else to place it.

Thank you.
 
Apologist78 said:
Hi-

I was pleased to read the Anglican/Catholic debates on Papal Infallibility- such as those conducted by Dr. Chillingworth, Dr Littledale, Dr. Salmon, and Dr Lightfoot- and the Catholic replies. This really helped me to learn that George Salmon really did not write anything new as protestants claim, but simply systamatized and regurgitated a lot of the arguments already floating around by the protestants- which had already been answered. Salmon as I also came to discover simply regurgitated the arguments of the Gallicans in the 17th century. In any case- I digress since this is not what my thread is about.

I was simply wondering if anyone here has heard of the work “Disputations on the Holy Scripture” written by William Whitaker a puritan theologian allegidly vindicating Sola Scriptura. He wrote the work primarily as a rebuttal to Robert Bellarmine and Thomas Stapleton. This work is considered THE standard for protestants who wish to vindicate Sola Scriptura. It is said William Whitaker was so effective in his writtings and debates that he “cuts off the head of his antagonists with their own weapons.”

Are any Catholics here familiar with any specific Catholic replies which have been written to this work? If so, I would appreciate a list of them and where they might be found.

I apologize in advance if I posted this thread in the wrong discussion board- but I really did not know where else to place it.

Thank you.
Click to expand...

Bellarmine is one possibility,as your post implies.​

It may well be worth reading more recent Protestants, such as Turretin,who wrote acentury or so later. That apart, many of the issues have been overtaken by the course of time - & some of the Catholic positions possible in the 16th century are now no longer permissible.

Some of the Protestant apologetic fails to take into account that Catholics are no longer free to hold - for instance - that the Bible derives its authority from the Church. In the 16th century, this was one of several views current among Catholic theologians. When Turretin wrote, it still was; so I imagine Whitaker mentions it

Whitaker’s work is now in print again:
 
I have the work myself. It is in print again. I ordered mine off of James White’s website- becasue he sells it (at the time) cheaper then other places.

The work is a reply to Bellarmine and Stapleton.

I was wondering if any replies from the Catholic side since then.

I was unaware it was even a theological position that the Bible derives its authority from the Church.
 
Apologist78 said:
I have the work myself. It is in print again. I ordered mine off of James White’s website- becasue he sells it (at the time) cheaper then other places.

The work is a reply to Bellarmine and Stapleton.

I was wondering if any replies from the Catholic side since then.

I was unaware it was even a theological position that the Bible derives its authority from the Church.
Click to expand...

A lot has happened in the last 400 years - Christians are not always very good at keeping abreast of the changes :o​

I strongly recommend reading Turretin 🙂 - I suspect (I may be wrong) that a lot of Calvinists rely on him for their knowledge of Catholic doctrine
 
Are any Catholics here familiar with any specific Catholic replies which have been written to this work? If so, I would appreciate a list of them and where they might be found.
Click to expand...
Please forgive me for writing you–I don’t have any information on this issue, but it sounds so interesting I would appreciate if you would update everyone here once you have more information on it.

Also, what issues are you specifically studying? The problem for Protestants, it seems to me, is that the bible itself has been undermined by biblical scholars in the past centuries. So, without tradition and the church to lean on, the bible by itself seems a wobbly pillar.

Please don’t forget to tell everyone the answers you’ve found, God bless, Annem
 
James White? I shudder whenever someone brings up that name. :eek: I would suggest staying as far away from his website as possible.
 
annem said:
Please forgive me for writing you–I don’t have any information on this issue, but it sounds so interesting I would appreciate if you would update everyone here once you have more information on it.

Also, what issues are you specifically studying? The problem for Protestants, it seems to me, is that the bible itself has been undermined by biblical scholars in the past centuries. So, without tradition and the church to lean on, the bible by itself seems a wobbly pillar.
Click to expand...
But what is Tradition? Where is Tradition? It seems whenever Tradition is brought up it is never defined. When the Bible is undermined- that which is God’s Word- how would people possiably listen to the Church? In other words if people don’t respect the Bible, then why in God’s name would they respect the Church? It just seems to me if the Bible goes, the Church goes too.
 
Christy_Beth said:
James White? I shudder whenever someone brings up that name. :eek: I would suggest staying as far away from his website as possible.
Click to expand...
Why? What is there to fear? If one is truly rooted in their Catholic Faith, and one is truly seeking the truth, and loves Jesus Christ, why fear James White? One will one become a sharper apologist becasue of him. One also must keep in mind that on the moral issues James White and the Catholic Church are in full agreement and stand on the same side. Hence information he offers on his site is useful in that regard- as well as defending the Faith against JW’s, Mormon’s and Liberal Secualrists.

As I said I am strongly rooted in my Catholic Faith. There is nothing White is going to say that would shock me, or cause me to loose my Faith. In fact he is simply causing me to want to know more about my Faith and get better at defending it.
 
Gottle_of_Geer said:

A lot has happened in the last 400 years - Christians are not always very good at keeping abreast of the changes :o​

I strongly recommend reading Turretin 🙂 - I suspect (I may be wrong) that a lot of Calvinists rely on him for their knowledge of Catholic doctrine
Click to expand...
Why would they rely on him for knowledge of Catholic doctrine when he is a Calvanist Theologian?
 
juliamajor said:
You like reading James White,& Whitaker-so what’s the problem with him reading another Calvinist:eek:
Click to expand...
It is not that I like reading them- it is that if the Protestants are to be refuted then it is necessary to read what they actually WRITE, AND TEACH rather then wearing it as a badge their works have never been read as some Catholic apologists like to do.

I find that White for example has nothing new to offer in terms of arguments against Catholocism, rather he simply regurgitates the arguments of the past big name protestants- Salmon and Whitaker being two of them. Hence if one is familar with Salmon and Whitaker and some others, one knows exactely what White will argue in his debates and books. IF one is familar with the Catholic replies to these works, one can easily deal with White- as it does not appear White IS familiar with the Catholic replies to Salmon and the other big name Anglican theologians…

Of course many Catholic apologists would disagree with me here, but I will say it anyway. I find that the Catholic apologists are totally ignorant of the issues when it comes to Sola Scriptura- BECASUE they have never bothered to read what the protestants actually say. Let me make this clear: Jack Chick and pals IS NOT THE STANDARD of protestantism. The mainlines laugh at him including White.

I am tired of Catholic apologists writting that Sola Scriptura denies the authority of the Church, and denies the authority of Tradition when in fact the doctrine does no such thing (at least in theory.) I am furthermore frustrated with the straw man of “The protestant alone with his Bible in the woods” Catholic apologists like to set up and knock over. Since it appears that the apologists refuse to take the protestants serioulsy and research their works, someone has to. That someone is me. That is why I wanted to know if anyone was familiar with any Catholic replies to the work. In another place the Catholic replies to the anglican debates were listed, which I was unaware of. So I thought someone might be aware of replies to this work.

I realize I sound a bit harsh on the Catholic apologists- they do a noble thing. Also, I think they are focusing on different problems today- such as Liberal amoral humanist secularism so prevalent in society today. Nowhere is this more cleary seen then CA where Catholic Answers is located. Hence these issues are not at the fore- namely Sola Scriptura etc.
 
Gottle_of_Geer said:
Some of the Protestant apologetic fails to take into account that Catholics are no longer free to hold - for instance - that the Bible derives its authority from the Church. In the 16th century, this was one of several views current among Catholic theologians. When Turretin wrote, it still was; so I imagine Whitaker mentions it
Click to expand...
How about Nemann??
 
Neuman though a difficult read, I did study his theory of development- and his seven tests for an authentic development or a corruption.
 
But what is Tradition? Where is Tradition? It seems whenever Tradition is brought up it is never defined. When the Bible is undermined- that which is God’s Word- how would people possiably listen to the Church? In other words if people don’t respect the Bible, then why in God’s name would they respect the Church? It just seems to me if the Bible goes, the Church goes too.
Reply With Quote
Click to expand...
Hi, well, it seems we disagree. Tradition is the only answer to all the problems regarding early CHristianity.

“If people don’t respect the bible” you say, then why respect the church? Because the church and tradition were there three hundred years before the bible. The bible was only formed by the church and approved by the church. If the church is on shaky ground of any kind, then the bible is on even shakier ground.

The problems with only the bible as authority are endless. Take the Holy Spirit. What real evidence is there of the Holy Spirit if only going by the bible? .

If you study 1 Clement and the letter of Ignatius you find the church operating long before the books of the bible were compiled and canonized.

What part of this do you disagree with?

God bless, Annem
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top