Disrespect

[JReducation]

It’s funny that you guys are talking about the center and who has jurisdiction. We had this conversation this morning at the Respect Life Office where I work. One of the bishops was visiting and someone made a comment about a one of the Discalced Carmelites. I think they were trying to tattle to the bishop without making it too obvious. But the bishop caught on.

The interesting part was that these were lay people who work for the Catholic Church and did not know this. The bishop explained that he had no jurisdiction over the religious in the diocese, because they own their houses or the houses are on loan to them, not to the diocese. He also explained that no bishop can enter a religious house without permission from the superior. But I think what upset them the most was when he said that if they did not like the mass at the priory, they should find some other place. He was very polite. He politely explained that the Discalced Friars are a Pontifical order and an exempt order, which means that neither bishops nor laity have any voice in what they do in the ministires of their order.

They asked the bishop if the diocese could ask them to leave. The bishop laughed and said, “No more than the mayor can ask you to move out of his town. Once canonically erected, a religious house cannot be suppressed without the authority of the Holy See.” This did not make some people happy.

It left me wondering, isn’t it rude to put the bishop on the spot like this? Isn’t it rude the the Discalced Friars to talk about them behind their back to everyone else, including the bishop, without talking to them first or to their Major Superior? I guess I’m trained to think in terms of chain of command. You follow a chain of command every where you go. The Church is not different. When you don’t follow that chain of command, you’re being rude to someone, because you’re bypassing that person.

I did realize that these people did not know the chain of command. They thought that the religious in the diocese all work for the diocese. I can understand that mistake. I don’t understand that talking behind people’s backs and not going to the souce of your problem. That really makes me wonder what has gone wrong with society.

For the curious, what I heard about the mass sounded to me like someone does not understand the Carmelite liturgical traditions. In other words, I didn’t hear anything scandalous. Which is another good reason to go to the source first. The person may have learned something about Carmelite liturgical traditions instead of bad-mouthing the friars to other people and finally to a bishop. Thank God the bishop is very intelligent and very holy.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Shoshana]

Shoshana,

I hope I was not too hard with my last post.

If you have issue and you have written to the centre and receive no response or no response that satisfied you then I suggest that you write to the Provincial Offices, they are the proper authority, not the local bishop.

Go to our website, Carmelnet and click on the About Us link on the right hand side.

You will see the Provincial Office address, you can write a snail mail letter to there make sure you send it to the Provincial or if you scroll down a bit you will see an email address to the Provincial Office, again make sure you call it to the attention of the Provincial.

I hope this helps you out.

But again, even New Age can be called a spirituality and if they are paying and running their own classes I do not see how the blame can be place on others.

Again, thank you Brother David. I guess no one knew this, not even my spiritual director. I will have to inform him. I do not do anything without him okaying the intent and reading the letters that I have written,. And I even wait then…I can even send you the letters that I have written which was done in all charity if you wish. But thanks for this infor. I am not trying to defame anybody but am saddened that the center has stooped this low. I am aware much about the Carmelite spirituality. For 25 years i have studied and prayed John of the Cross and Eidth Stein. Both favourites. I am so wishing in joining the oblates or third order carmelite at the Carmelite monastery in Buffalo. I am still discerning…

But Carmelite spirituality is very well known to me even if I grew up in a fransciscan parish!

 

[Ocarm]

I am not trying to defame anybody but am saddened that the center has stooped this low.

Shoshana, do you not think those sentiments are rather contradictory?

Peace and prayers in Carmel.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I am not trying to defame anybody but am saddened that the center has stooped this low.

Shoshana, do you not think those sentiments are rather contradictory?

Peace and prayers in Carmel.

I agree with Ocarm.

Shoshana,
I believe that you are attempting to hold to an ideal and what you have experienced in the past.

You must look to the reality of today. Catholics just do not support retreat centers as they once did. The reality of it is that such centers must open their doors to groups and things that they once did not have to in order to continue to exist.

I did not see you answer my question, if you did I missed it so I will ask you again.

Would you rather have the retreat center there or a another casino?

 

[Shoshana]

Shoshana, do you not think those sentiments are rather contradictory?

Peace and prayers in Carmel.

Not really. There is truth to be had here. You do not know of where i speak only Brother David. And this is not only the problem at the center but also in many relitious convents. I am very much well read on New Age…I can smell it a mile away. It is a gift but also a curse. And where there is New Age, there is a compromise of our basic catholic/christian beliefs.

Do you not think that even St Theresa of Avila was saddned at the laxity found in the carmelite convents at the time? Was she and John of the Cross not prophets of their time? Do you not think there can not be speaking the truth and experience sadness at the same time? Most people people or even our religious are not aware of the dangers of New Age even if there is a document on it from the Vatican.

Yes, I am sad because i love our center and I love the carmelite spirituality. I always have. For over 25 years!

 

[JReducation]

am not trying to defame anybody but am saddened that the center has stooped this low. .

But Carmelite spirituality is very well known to me even if I grew up in a fransciscan parish!

You may want to reword this. I believe you when you say that you’re not trying to hurt the friars. But when you use “stoop this low” that’s harsh.

As Br. David and explained and I try to show with my example above, these houses do not belong to the Church. In other words, they do not belong to us Catholics. They belong to the friars. Unless a dioceses makes itself financially responsible for keeping the house up and running, the friars are stuck. They either rent the space to those who come or they close it down. There may be a few generous souls who donate money to the Carmelite Friars. But most of the income to run the center comes from the activities at the center.

There is a Dominican retreat house in our diocese. My region of friars wanted to have our annual retreat here this year. We could not afford the Dominican retreat house. We booked the Episcopal retreat house. It was $75.00 cheaper per night per person. I don’t blame the Dominicans. The only way that they can limit the use of the house to Catholics is to charge very high prices to cover expenses when there are no retreats. The Episcopalains rent to everyone. Their retreat house is always booked.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Shoshana]

I agree with Ocarm.

Shoshana,
I believe that you are attempting to hold to an ideal and what you have experienced in the past.

You must look to the reality of today. Catholics just do not support retreat centers as they once did. The reality of it is that such centers must open their doors to groups and things that they once did not have to in order to continue to exist.

I did not see you answer my question, if you did I missed it so I will ask you again.

Would you rather have the retreat center there or a another casino?

Here is my answer Brother;

**Let them bring back the carmelite spirit. The courses I took (The Edith Stein Institute) were fabulous…but that was so long ago (15+ years ago)…way before they brought in these shenanigans.

If true and honest christian spirituality were always given (who cares about the denomination), then there would be no compromise. As of today, there are many compromises in keeping the Center open. Our CWL had their retreat there…I won’t name the priest…and there was a video given based on the gospel of Thomas. Huh? This is not New Age but it certainly confused the ladies from our parish. One stood up to this and she was yelled at in front of a lot of ladies…

I want them to remain open. But keep New Age, gurus, energy of the universe, etc etc out of it…**

---

Is this clearer…I understand the center needs to remain open by allowing many christian denominations to use it…I have no problem with that. They believe in Jesus. But I refuse to accept New Age pseudo-spirituality that have for the center of their universe…themselves. This shoudl not be accepted at all. It is appalling.

 

[Shoshana]

You may want to reword this. I believe you when you say that you’re not trying to hurt the friars. But when you use “stoop this low” that’s harsh.

As Br. David and explained and I try to show with my example above, these houses do not belong to the Church. In other words, they do not belong to us Catholics. They belong to the friars. Unless a dioceses makes itself financially responsible for keeping the house up and running, the friars are stuck. They either rent the space to those who come or they close it down. There may be a few generous souls who donate money to the Carmelite Friars. But most of the income to run the center comes from the activities at the center.

There is a Dominican retreat house in our diocese. My region of friars wanted to have our annual retreat here this year. We could not afford the Dominican retreat house. We booked the Episcopal retreat house. It was $75.00 cheaper per night per person. I don’t blame the Dominicans. The only way that they can limit the use of the house to Catholics is to charge very high prices to cover expenses when there are no retreats. The Episcopalains rent to everyone. Their retreat house is always booked.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

I am sorry about the harsh word…did not mean to be mean. This still has not touched on New Age courses being given at a spirituality center. Epicopalian is a christina denomination…New Age is not. Maybe people here do not know what New Age is maybe?

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Not really. There is truth to be had here. You do not know of where i speak only Brother David. And this is not only the problem at the center but also in many relitious convents. I am very much well read on New Age…I can smell it a mile away. It is a gift but also a curse. And where there is New Age, there is a compromise of our basic catholic/christian beliefs.

Do you not think that even St Theresa of Avila was saddned at the laxity found in the carmelite convents at the time? Was she and John of the Cross not prophets of their time? Do you not think there can not be speaking the truth and experience sadness at the same time? Most people people or even our religious are not aware of the dangers of New Age even if there is a document on it from the Vatican.

Yes, I am sad because i love our center and I love the carmelite spirituality. I always have. For over 25 years!

You can not compare convents to a retreat center.

Those non-catholic programs are taught by non-catholics in most cases where the new age in the convents is brought in and taught by the sisters.

Big, great big, difference.

I am sorry but I think you are way off base regarding the retreat centre.

 

[Shoshana]

You can not compare convents to a retreat center.

Those non-catholic programs are taught by non-catholics in most cases where the new age in the convents is brought in and taught by the sisters.

Big, great big, difference.

I am sorry but I think you are way off base regarding the retreat centre.

I understand where you are coming from Brother…yes, there is a difference between, let us say, nuns teaching it as opposed to haveing soemone come in to teach it. I agree with your statement. That being said, that such a holy place should not bring in such paganistic spirituality. I will enclose my letter. I have left out names and addresses, it might make things a bit clearer…

Many blessings to you during this very holy season. Please allow me to introduce myself as one who has been a great supporter of many of your courses and retreats. I have been blessed again and again through them and especially through the spirituality of Carmel, namely St John of the Cross. Gratitude still fills my heart for the treasures I have been enriched with through the great number of years.

It has come to my notice that you have an upcoming seminar given by a certain Bijan. It is stated that Bijan spent many years in the study and teaching of ‘A Course in Miracles’. This course written by Helen Schucman was channeled by a spirit which asserts, amongst other things, that Sacred Scripture is in error and this said spirit would rectify the errors found therein. It seems that Bijan also has been made knowledgeable of his ‘Effortless Prosperity’ by a channeled spirit. Spirit channeling is forbidden in Sacred Scripture and within our own Faith. In the Catechism of the Catholic Church, we find:

2115: God can reveal the future to his prophets or to other saints. Still, a sound Christian attitude consists in putting oneself confidently into the hands of Providence for whatever concerns the future and giving up all unhealthy curiosity about it. Improvidence, however, can constitute a lack of responsibility.
2116: All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to ‘unveil’ the future. Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.
2117: All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one’s service and have a supernatural power over others—even if this were for the sake of restoring their health—are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. Wearing charms is also reprehensible. Spiritism often implies divination or magical practices; the church for her part warns the faithful against it. Recourse to so-called traditional cures does not justify either the invocation of evil powers or the exploitation of another’s credulity.

‘A course of Miracles’ and ‘Effortless Living’ are an abomination to the Lord. This alone should caution anyone of being involved with such occult material. This book, ‘A Course in Miracles’, should be avoided at all cost. And if one reads Fr Benedict Groeschel , a well known holy, wise, and a no-nonsense priest, as well as a psychologist and acquaintance of Helen Schucman, has maintained in his book, ‘A Still Small Voice’ the possible diabolic origin in the spirit channeling of Helen S.:

‘Others have claimed that there is a diabolical element operating in this whole matter. At first this seemed to me to be far-fetched. However, as I recall the terrible deterioration of Helen at the end of her life (she was frightening to be with) and her hatred for the Course and for all spiritual things, I have reason to wonder.’ (A Still Small Voice, Fr. B. Groeschel P165)

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Here is my answer Brother;

**Let them bring back the carmelite spirit. The courses I took (The Edith Stein Institute) were fabulous…but that was so long ago (15+ years ago)…way before they brought in these shenanigans.
**

They have tried and it does not support the centre as you think it would. I am sorry about that but it is reality.

** If true and honest christian spirituality were always given (who cares about the denomination), then there would be no compromise. As of today, there are many compromises in keeping the Center open. Our CWL had their retreat there…I won’t name the priest…and there was a video given based on the gospel of Thomas. Huh? This is not New Age but it certainly confused the ladies from our parish. One stood up to this and she was yelled at in front of a lot of ladies…**

I want them to remain open. But keep New Age, gurus, energy of the universe, etc etc out of it…

Is this clearer…I understand the center needs to remain open by allowing many christian denominations to use it…I have no problem with that. They believe in Jesus. But I refuse to accept New Age pseudo-spirituality that have for the center of their universe…themselves. This shoudl not be accepted at all. It is appalling.

You want them to remain open yet to cut the amount of money coming in to stay open.

So you say you want it to stay open yet what you want them to do is to limit themselves so that they will have to close and sell.

More contradictory thoughts.

I am sorry but we deal with reality here. We are already considering closing our retreat center in NJ.

I am sorry but it is what it is.

I am appalled that you would rather see this place gone and a casino there than the centre to be there.

 

[Shoshana]

This very same criteria would apply to Bijan.

The teaching of ‘Effortless Living’ is strictly New Age and is incompatible with Christianity. The Evil One always throws some nuggets of truth along the way into such a pell-mell of pseudo-spirituality. Positive thinking is healthy for the body, soul and spirit. But thinking so positively that it would attract health and wealth is preposterous. We have only to look at Our Lord Jesus Christ: God from God, Light from Light, the Alpha and Omega, who attracted much evil (the temptations in the desert, etc.) since darkness always tries to destroy the Light. Our Lord has said many times that ‘the student is no greater than the Master’…that ‘He was hated, thus so would we be’…’we are to pick up our cross’ and ‘blessed are we when we are persecuted, for the Kingdom of God is ours’! Bijan’s thinking is so opposite to this. I would rather go through life with the Holy Spirit within me than walk around with all the wealth and health that these many spirits promise me…for what would it gain me to lose my soul for eternity? And lose their very soul is not illusory:

‘Two very disturbing but insightful facts gradually came into view for me and threw some light on this very strange chapter in my own life. One was the incredible darkness that descended upon Helen S. in the last years of her life. This woman who has written so eloquently that suffering really did not exist spent the last two years of her life in the blackest psychotic depression I have ever witnessed. Her husband cared for her with an incredible devotion, and her friends did the best they could. But it was almost frightening to be with her. I clearly observed that the denial of the reality of suffering could have catastrophic consequences.’ (A Still Small Voice, Fr. B. Groeschel, P79)

It is a great anguish to realize that Gnosticism has infiltrated different areas of our Faith, most commonly in our convents and retreat centers. Many will lose their already frail Faith by empty promises that just may bring them misery instead. Mount Carmel Spiritual Centre has been a source of much holiness in the past, but now, it will be held responsible for this abomination that has entered into its walls. Mount Carmel will have to give an accounting before the Lord Himself for the scandal this will cause amongst the faithful and for enabling the shipwreck of souls that were redeemed by the Precious Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ. For, I fear, this ‘Effortless Living’ is only the beginning of the end…and an end brought on by those responsible for choosing the programs at Mt Carmel and by priests who are to offer sacrifice to God alone!

And to finish, I would love to share quotes that, I try to enflesh within my own life, are
from St John of the Cross, your own spiritual Doctor:

‘…I should not consider any spirituality worthwhile that would walk in sweetness and ease and run from the imitation of Christ…’ (The Ascent of Mount Carmel)

‘…the Beloved dwells secretly with an embrace so much the closer, more intimate, and interior, the purer and more alone the soul is to everything other than God…’ (The Living Flame of Love)

‘…To undertake the journey to God the heart must be burned and purified of all creatures with the fire of Divine love…’ (The Ascent of Mount Carmel)

My spiritual director, --------------------, is aware of this letter and endorses it.

 

[JReducation]

I am sorry about the harsh word…did not mean to be mean. This still has not touched on New Age courses being given at a spirituality center. Epicopalian is a christina denomination…New Age is not. Maybe people here do not know what New Age is maybe?

I was concerned about that part of your sentence and I believe that Brother tried to point it out to you, bu the message didn’t get through.

I don’t like New Age stuff any more than I like chicken pox, but I see both sides of this. I see how you, as a person who is deeply attached to Carmelite spirituality would find it sad that the center does not offer as much as it may have done once upon a time. I can also see how you and other Catholics may be shocked to see a group of New Agers (is there such a term?) at a Carmelite spiritual center.

But I also see the other side. It is their property, not the property of the Catholic Church. You and I have no say over what they do with their property. Unless we’re willing to finance it, they have to figure out a way to do it. If they have four weeks in a month and they have to pay bills, bu they have no bookings for that month, they are in trouble. However, if the Buddhist come and ask to rent the place for a week, that will pay some bills and the friars will not have to pull out of savings or ask their motherhouse to bail them out, because the diocese is not going to do it. Diocese do not bail out religious, because we’re not part of the local Church. Therefore, we are not their responsibility. They pay us a stipend if we work for the diocese. But that’s all the connection between us and any diocese.

This means that the laity who live in a diocese must either support the Carmelites or let them find a way to support themselves. If they go to their bishop and ask for permission to start a fund for the cetner, then there is some room for the benefactor to raise questions. But if the laity is not a contributor to the center, it cannot demand that the center send away groups and go weeks without income. That would be unfair. The center will crash and it will not serve anyone’s needs.

As long as the friars are not introducing the New Age whatever into the priory and are not leading these groups, they are really just landlords. Now if these New Agers were going to do something illegal or risque, then the friars have to intervene.

Do you see the point? If the laity wants the ceter, then it has to finance it or allow the friars to do so anyway they can, as long as it’s legal and not immoral.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Shoshana]

What do you mean by priory? Like the chapels in the sleeping areas? In the manin chapel?

 

[JReducation]

What do you mean by priory? Like the chapels in the sleeping areas? In the manin chapel?

A house of Carmelite men is called a priory, because its head is the Prior. It is not called a monastery, because Carmelites are friars, not monks. They are contemplative, but not enclosed. The Carmelites are probably closer to the Dominicans. Theey too live in priories run by a Prior. They are contemplatives, but not enclosed. They are clerical.

Franciscans are in a separate league. We live in a friary or a convent, bu not a monastery. Even the men call their houses convents. We are contemplatives, but not enclosed. Our houses are governed by the local chapter. This is very unique to Franciscans and Benedictines. We have a monthly meeting and decisions are made. Those deicisions are to be executed and it is the Guardian’s job to see to it that they happen. No Gaurdian has the authority to disobey the community. In other words, our superiors cannot disobey what the friars decide in common. That’s why we do not call them Prior or Abbot. They are not the first or the fathers of the community. They must always take the last place and watch over the community, so we call them Guardians. Also, the Franciscan and Benedictine families are not clerical. There are branches that are clerical. But not the entire Franciscan or the entire Benedictine family. There are many branches where they have priest, but they are governed by a brother. For a long time people though that Franciscans lived in monasteries, because we have some things in common with the Benedictines.

I’m trying to think and I believe that the only friars whom I have met that live in monasteries are the Trinitarians. The Passionists and Redemptorists also live in monasteries, but they are neither friars not monks. They are clerks.

Anyway, now you know about priories, friaries and monasteries.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Shoshana]

I am not going to approach the center again for sure, no matter where the authorityis …not anymore. Two letters was enough. I believe that I have done what needed to be done at the time.

But after this explanation by Brother and Brother, I will desist. It does make sense in what they say but the danger is still there whether they give it or not. But our fraternal love is more important to me right now…not me being right.

Thank you for your patience. I do not want a casino where the center is. We have lost the convent next door to it. It would be a terrible thing if a very tall building would replace it as the center is beautiful.

Yes, I am sad…so sad…

 

[JReducation]

I am not going to approach the center again for sure, no matter where the authorityis …not anymore. Two letters was enough. I believe that I have done what needed to be done at the time.

But after this explanation by Brother and Brother, I will desist. It does make sense in what they say but the danger is still there whether they give it or not. But our fraternal love is more important to me right now…not me being right.

Thank you for your patience. I do not want a casino where the center is. We have lost the convent next door to it. It would be a terrible thing if a very tall building would replace it as the center is beautiful.

Yes, I am sad…so sad…

The economic situation may improve and the center will thrive again.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[lutherlic]

This is part of the issue.

Some users here are so caught up in their “pet projects” that disagreeing with them and actually providing material from the Magisterium is seen to them as being rude and aggressive.

To disagree with them is wrong but then to prove it is the end of it for you.

Brother, I am truly sorry for anyone who treats you with anything less than respect. Please do not let the comments of a few people in this public forum color your view of us all! I am very grateful for your comments and of all the religious. We are fortunate to have your participation.

I am not sure what “pet projects” you are referring to, but it has been my observation that some people appear to subordinate their faith to things they appear to give higher priority (e.g. political dogma). I would hope that dealing with them in charity and humility might move them at some point to understand this and change.

Please don’t despair!

 

[JReducation]

Brother, I am truly sorry for anyone who treats you with anything less than respect. Please do not let the comments of a few people in this public forum color your view of us all! I am very grateful for your comments and of all the religious. We are fortunate to have your participation.

I am not sure what “pet projects” you are referring to, but it has been my observation that some people appear to subordinate their faith to things they appear to give higher priority (e.g. political dogma). I would hope that dealing with them in charity and humility might move them at some point to understand this and change.

Please don’t despair!

I don’t think that we despair, but we certainly have concerns. I too have been the target on some threads, though I also have to admit that there are more people who are very kind to me. But what is happening is that some posters feel that they have a right to be rude to brothers, sisters, deacons and priests on the forum.

I understand that you have to take my word for it that I’m a religious, unless you go to our webpage. But most people don’t do that. Let’s just say that they take our word for it. If you treat everyone with courtesy and gently, you won’t fall into the pit of disrespecting a religious or a cleric.

The other point that does cause me some concern is the confusion that I see among the laity on these threads. They want sisters and priests. I don’t think they want brothers at all or they could care less. That’s very offensive. Every time you bring up the topic of brothers in the vocation forum it is either ignored or someone makes some silly comment that brothers are less than priests. What it says to me is that people don’t know the difference between a priest and a brother, because they don’t know the difference between religious life and Holy Orders. Therefore, they can be very dismissive of the brothers.

Along with that same confusion, there is another prevailing attitude. I often feel that people want religious and clergy, but on their terms. We have to live, act and minister according to the model that people grew up with. When you try to explain why that is no longer possible, people either dismiss you or attack, both are rude. It is true that a religious community must be faithful to the vision and charism of the founders. It is also true that a religious community has a culture and tradition of its own and that it should preserve it. Things like wearing a habit, praying together, having periods of silence during the day or places of silence in the religious house are some of the ways that we preserve our traditions and culture.

But what lay people do not know is that the way that many religious, especially men, lived and ministered from about 1850 to 1970 was contrary to the mind of the founders What eventually happened was that many of our male religious left when they were told that they had to go back to the roots of their orders. They did not want to do that. They liked the lives they led, because they lived as if they were diocesan priests, but with the benefits of having a religious order behind them if they got sick or when they got old. The religious life that people knew from 1850 until 1975 was not what the founders wanted. Now we’re trying to recover through a serious of renewals.

I don’t find it offensive, but I find it frustrating when people forget that our reason for being religious is not their reason for wanting us to be religious. Their reason may be because they want brothers to run high schools, sisters to run elementary schools and hospitals. Speaking for me, I did the high school thing for many years. I was good at it. But that is not the charism of St. Francis. So we closed all of our schools. There are some friars who teach at colleges, theologates, private high schools, and other places. But we do not run schools. We are not taking on new parishes. We are distributing our men to work on the streets. Francis did not want us to run parishes. He even wrote it into our rule. We were not to ask for them. Some people figured that if the bishop offered them, then we were not out of compliance. Today we’re re-examining that thought. In Francis’ time bishops did not offer parishes to religious. Some folks get it. They are sad because their parishes may have to merge or because they are attached to a particular religious order in their parish and hoped that the aging religious priests would be replaced. But there are those who don’t get the importance of religious life as it was meant to be lived. They look at their needs and they place the burden on religious. That’s unkind, because you should never make others feel guilty for something that is not their fault or their responsibility.

That’s my two cents.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[The_Geographer]

There seems to be a lot more out right disrespect on Catholic Answers Forums, especially in the Vocations forum (but it is everywhere), towards religious who chose to post here.

It seems that many laity seem they think they know more about religious life and other things and are down right disrespectful and nasty to the religious who are taking their time to post here to try and help people understand what religious life actually is.

This is saddening to me and has made me reexamine my time spent here.

It is not really all that worthwhile to be here when I am attacked personally when I make a comment.

If you disagree with something we say then disagree with it and state why, no need to be disrespectful and to make ad hominem attacks.

Which are against the forums rules but not fully enforced.

I most certainly empathize with your experience. Hateful remarks only trigger my aggression, which I often regret my reaction. But over time I’m getting better at dealing with it. I’ve found myself not responding to uncalled for reactions towards my statements. It’s not like we’re writing a real composite of the sum of all our thoughts.

I think people are upset over the new healthcare plan here in the U.S. as well as the recent sex scandals being drug all over the media.