Disrespect

[JReducation]

I know what you are talking about here and what everyone else on the thread so far is discussing disrespect.

But what prompted this thread is the out right disrespect of religious, some examples are one uses stated that he doubts that those who are self identifying as religious on this forum are not really such. Or where a user resorts to a personal attack rather than discussing what was said, such as when a response to one of my posts on celibacy was that I sound like a medieval monk or where I pointed out statistics on sexual abuse I was accused of saying it is ok.

I remember the mdedieval monk post, because I responded to it. I didn’t see the one on the stats. I thought that the medieval monk response was rude, but was almost comical because of it’s absurdity. It almost said that medieval monasticism has nothing to say to the world today or if it does, “we don’t want to hear it.”

The one on the stats, I find that people on CAF, have a tendency to misunderstand that you’re tyring to put things into perspective. You’re not saying that a single case of abuse is permissible. You’re saying is that this is a worldwide pandemic and unfortunately, many of these abusers found their way into the priesthood and religious life. What people don’t understandis that the Church does not grow sexual abusers like cabbage in a garden. Men come as they are. It’s like a marriage. You discover things as the years pass.

As to whether or not people believe that religious on CAF are real or fabrications, it’s a freflection of the world in which we live. There is a lack of trust and everyone wants proof for everything. I notice that you can’t say something that the Church believes without someone asking you to find a citation. Half the time I don’t know where it came from. I remember learning it in theology. Maybe my professor was quoting something or maybe I read it in one of my books. But everyone wants a sealed certificate of authenticity for everything.

My point is that even if you were to give them such a certificate, they would question whether or not it is a fraud. I don’t even get into that argument with people. I simply tell people that they need to back off, because they are being rude to me and I will not put up with it. Respect is something that we owe to every person, regardless of their vocation.

I made a suggestion once ot the admin, but it did not go anywhere. I would like to see serveral religious present a carefully worded and politely worded suggestion to the admin that they add to the rules that religious and clergy on the forum be treated with the respect tha tis traditionally reserved for them, unless they are teaching heresy or sin. I do believe that there is respect that is reserved for clergy and religious, just as there is a respect that we reserve for our parents, which is different from the respect that we show for others, or the respect for our spouses, which had better be different from what we do for others. You not only show respect for the person, but also for the state in life. Even if the person is a fraud, but until proven differently, you show the proper respect fort that particular state in life.

Of course, I’ll probably come down at the bottom here, becaue most lay Catholics have no interest in brothers and could care less if we disappeared off the face of the earth. Unfortunately, this is often nurtured by priests and sisters, not realizing that the brother represents the full charism of male religious life, without the accidentla distraction of Holy Orders which often cloudes the view to religious life. Even in our prayers of the faithful, we pray for priests and religious, but most people don’t know that there are male religious who are not priests. Many question what good are we to the Church. That always blows my mind. But anyway, if we were to get together and make such a request, politely, we may get a nice answer in return. All that we’re asking for is a show of respect for the religious and clerical states.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[CatholicGuy22]

I remember the mdedieval monk post, because I responded to it. I didn’t see the one on the stats. I thought that the medieval monk response was rude, but was almost comical because of it’s absurdity. It almost said that medieval monasticism has nothing to say to the world today or if it does, “we don’t want to hear it.”

The one on the stats, I find that people on CAF, have a tendency to misunderstand that you’re tyring to put things into perspective. You’re not saying that a single case of abuse is permissible. You’re saying is that this is a worldwide pandemic and unfortunately, many of these abusers found their way into the priesthood and religious life. What people don’t understandis that the Church does not grow sexual abusers like cabbage in a garden. Men come as they are. It’s like a marriage. You discover things as the years pass.

As to whether or not people believe that religious on CAF are real or fabrications, it’s a freflection of the world in which we live. There is a lack of trust and everyone wants proof for everything. I notice that you can’t say something that the Church believes without someone asking you to find a citation. Half the time I don’t know where it came from. I remember learning it in theology. Maybe my professor was quoting something or maybe I read it in one of my books. But everyone wants a sealed certificate of authenticity for everything.

My point is that even if you were to give them such a certificate, they would question whether or not it is a fraud. I don’t even get into that argument with people. I simply tell people that they need to back off, because they are being rude to me and I will not put up with it. Respect is something that we owe to every person, regardless of their vocation.

I made a suggestion once ot the admin, but it did not go anywhere. I would like to see serveral religious present a carefully worded and politely worded suggestion to the admin that they add to the rules that religious and clergy on the forum be treated with the respect tha tis traditionally reserved for them, unless they are teaching heresy or sin. I do believe that there is respect that is reserved for clergy and religious, just as there is a respect that we reserve for our parents, which is different from the respect that we show for others, or the respect for our spouses, which had better be different from what we do for others. You not only show respect for the person, but also for the state in life. Even if the person is a fraud, but until proven differently, you show the proper respect fort that particular state in life.

Of course, I’ll probably come down at the bottom here, becaue most lay Catholics have no interest in brothers and could care less if we disappeared off the face of the earth. Unfortunately, this is often nurtured by priests and sisters, not realizing that the brother represents the full charism of male religious life, without the accidentla distraction of Holy Orders which often cloudes the view to religious life. Even in our prayers of the faithful, we pray for priests and religious, but most people don’t know that there are male religious who are not priests. Many question what good are we to the Church. That always blows my mind. But anyway, if we were to get together and make such a request, politely, we may get a nice answer in return. All that we’re asking for is a show of respect for the religious and clerical states.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

I know what you mean. It such a shame to see people especially Catholics disrespecting consecrated men and women. I got a mouthful from some protestants when i said that anyone informed Catholic who is for contraception is a heretic. They see that as a strong word but its the truth.

 

[JReducation]

I know what you mean. It such a shame to see people especially Catholics disrespecting consecrated men and women. I got a mouthful from some protestants when i said that anyone informed Catholic who is for contraception is a heretic. They see that as a strong word but its the truth.

You have to tread carefully there. There is a difference between being a heretic and being out of communion with the Church on a moral law. Heresy has never been applied to moral dissent. It has always been applied to dogmatic dissent and even there, it has to meet certain criteria set forth in canon law. It can be applied to moral dissent, but has not happened, because it rarely meets the canonical criteria. But a person who promotes contraception or uses it is objectively out of communion with the Church.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[CatholicGuy22]

You have to tread carefully there. There is a difference between being a heretic and being out of communion with the Church on a moral law. Heresy has never been applied to moral dissent. It has always been applied to dogmatic dissent and even there, it has to meet certain criteria set forth in canon law. It can be applied to moral dissent, but has not happened, because it rarely meets the canonical criteria. But a person who promotes contraception or uses it is objectively out of communion with the Church.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Yes i must be carefull because that is a strong word and i cant just be wielding it around like nothing. I just think anyone who knowenly opposes church doctrine is a heretic. I try not to use that word all the time but i felt it had to be said at that time. I will try to be careful though.

 

[CatholicGuy22]

You have to tread carefully there. There is a difference between being a heretic and being out of communion with the Church on a moral law. Heresy has never been applied to moral dissent. It has always been applied to dogmatic dissent and even there, it has to meet certain criteria set forth in canon law. It can be applied to moral dissent, but has not happened, because it rarely meets the canonical criteria. But a person who promotes contraception or uses it is objectively out of communion with the Church.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

You are right i never knew that thank you clearing it up for me. I just assumed that if you disagree with an act of the churches magisterium you are considered a heretic.

 

[wina]

We also have to remember that in international orders suchas Carmelites, Dominicans, Franciscans, Jesuits and so forth, you’re also going to have cultural differences. Therefore you need to have some guidelines for the region or province. In the USA five friars having to share two cars is austerity, because we come from homes where everyone has a car. In some countries of South America having two cars is a luxury since only the wealthy can afford cars. So you have sit down and discuss what is poverty in the context where you are. That’s just one example of variations within one order.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Bro JR, yes I do understand regarding poverty, and I understand that sure religious need cars as well. But how about if they wear branded shirts or jackets (example)? is it allowed to them to wear them? although it is a gift from people? I understand that some time lay people spoil religious persons (especially priests from religious order what I mean such as OFM, SJ, MSC,etc) and even too much. But can they reject the gifts if they are too much?

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Bro JR, yes I do understand regarding poverty, and I understand that sure religious need cars as well. But how about if they wear branded shirts or jackets (example)? is it allowed to them to wear them? although it is a gift from people? I understand that some time lay people spoil religious persons (especially priests from religious order what I mean such as OFM, SJ, MSC,etc) and even too much. But can they reject the gifts if they are too much?

For me the rejection of a gift freely given can not be done.

If it is something that I think is too much for me there are always thrift shops I can donate it to at a later date.

We are also actives and I do not think we need to look like “bums”, if you know what I mean.

We also need good running vehicles but I do not think they need to be the newest. Mine is a 1995, but it runs fine.

 

[JReducation]

Bro JR, yes I do understand regarding poverty, and I understand that sure religious need cars as well. But how about if they wear branded shirts or jackets (example)? is it allowed to them to wear them? although it is a gift from people? I understand that some time lay people spoil religious persons (especially priests from religious order what I mean such as OFM, SJ, MSC,etc) and even too much. But can they reject the gifts if they are too much?

I think that you misunderstood my point. I was not saying that religiuos need or do not need cars. I was trying to say that what is poverty in some countries is a luxury in other countries. I used the cars as an example. In the USA the average family has a car for every adult in the house. In most religious houses, the friars share cars. I gave an example. You can have five friars who share two cars. By USA standards this is austere. But by standards of the developing nations, it is not austere, because in those nations only the wealthy have cars.

Poverty is not the same for every religious order or religious congregation. For example, the Carmelites may own property as a community. In my community we may not own property, even as a community. The Franciscans of the Third Order Regular and the OFM may own their houses, but not their institutions. Those are owned by the Holy See and entrusted to their care. Sisters (not nuns) may own personal property, if it is permitted by their constitution. Nuns may never own personal property, because they make solemn vows, sisters do not make solemn vows.

You mentioned secular clothes. Br. David responded that they are not supposed to look sloppy. That they can decide if something is too austentatious, they can give it away.

Among the Friars Minor, you must turn all gifts in to the Guardian. He decides if you can keep it.

The Franciscans of the Reform: CFR, MFVA, OSF, FPO, LBSF, FBR, BoL and FBE, our constitutions say that we may not wear any other clothing or own any other clothing except two habits, one with a cowl and one without a cowl and a black shirt with a Roman collar and black slacks. We never dress in secular clothing. The only time that we wear a Roman collar is situations where a habit would not be allowed, such as traveling in certain cities or countries.

The Dominican Friars do not observe poverty the same way. They may have many things that other religious cannot have, even brand name clothing. The reason is very simple. St. Dominic poverty meant that they depended on God. It did not mean that they could not accept what God gave them through the generosity of others.

The Missionaries of Charity are not allowed to keep anything. But they must always accept the gifts they receive so as not to offend the person.

It is also true that many religious have deviated from the austerity of poverty and have used a lot of secular logic to justify having a very comfortable life and having things that they really don’t need. That has to be examined by them.

I know that among the Franciscans this is being examined daily and the entire family is tightening up on the practice of poverty. Some communities don’t even have cars. They walk to take a bus. In many houses friars are being ordered to clear out their rooms of things like computers, cell phones, iPods, TVs, stereos, radios. The rule and constitutions do not allow this. These things have slipped in little by little. Someone excused it once and then again and again and before you knew it, it became very common, especially in the USA and Europe. That’s what the reform is about, to go back to the austere life.

But not every religious order or religious congregations has the same degree of asuterity. Some were not founded on that principle. For example, the Carmelites were founded to be hermits. Their life was to be very simple; but they were not founded to be beggers. The Franciscans were founded to be beggers, with one condition. The friars were to beg, only if they did not make enough money from their work. They were to try to earn a living by working first.

The Jesuits were never meant to be poor. They were a military society. They shared everyting. That is there poverty. No one owns anything. But they can have whatever they need to make them comfortable and make their work easier. If you notice, Jesuits never wore a habit. They wore the same clothes as secular priests, even though they are religious. Poverty is not a priority to them, as long as they share what they have.

We have big problems in religious life regarding poverty. If we deny this, then we are denying the existence of mediocrity. But we must also realize that each religious community was founded with a different focus. Poverty is necessary for religious life. Religious need to become more detached. At the same time, not all religious are gong to have the same practices and customs. Each must get back to their roots.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[wina]

For me the rejection of a gift freely given can not be done.

If it is something that I think is too much for me there are always thrift shops I can donate it to at a later date.

Agreed. But the difficult is that how to measure “too much”

We are also actives and I do not think we need to look like “bums”, if you know what I mean.

We also need good running vehicles but I do not think they need to be the newest. Mine is a 1995, but it runs fine.

Yes Bro I understand. But I’ve been told there is a priest rejects to go to bless the house if he was not picked up by car. Sorry I don’t mean to disrespect. But on other side there are priests which he rejects to be picked up by car and only use his bicycle to go for it.

Well anyway…I think it’s all about individual choice about their life style even for priests.

 

[wina]

I think that you misunderstood my point. I was not saying that religiuos need or do not need cars. I was trying to say that what is poverty in some countries is a luxury in other countries. I used the cars as an example. In the USA the average family has a car for every adult in the house. In most religious houses, the friars share cars. I gave an example. You can have five friars who share two cars. By USA standards this is austere. But by standards of the developing nations, it is not austere, because in those nations only the wealthy have cars.

Poverty is not the same for every religious order or religious congregation. For example, the Carmelites may own property as a community. In my community we may not own property, even as a community. The Franciscans of the Third Order Regular and the OFM may own their houses, but not their institutions. Those are owned by the Holy See and entrusted to their care. Sisters (not nuns) may own personal property, if it is permitted by their constitution. Nuns may never own personal property, because they make solemn vows, sisters do not make solemn vows.

You mentioned secular clothes. Br. David responded that they are not supposed to look sloppy. That they can decide if something is too austentatious, they can give it away.

Among the Friars Minor, you must turn all gifts in to the Guardian. He decides if you can keep it.

The Franciscans of the Reform: CFR, MFVA, OSF, FPO, LBSF, FBR, BoL and FBE, our constitutions say that we may not wear any other clothing or own any other clothing except two habits, one with a cowl and one without a cowl and a black shirt with a Roman collar and black slacks. We never dress in secular clothing. The only time that we wear a Roman collar is situations where a habit would not be allowed, such as traveling in certain cities or countries.

The Dominican Friars do not observe poverty the same way. They may have many things that other religious cannot have, even brand name clothing. The reason is very simple. St. Dominic poverty meant that they depended on God. It did not mean that they could not accept what God gave them through the generosity of others.

The Missionaries of Charity are not allowed to keep anything. But they must always accept the gifts they receive so as not to offend the person.

It is also true that many religious have deviated from the austerity of poverty and have used a lot of secular logic to justify having a very comfortable life and having things that they really don’t need. That has to be examined by them.

I know that among the Franciscans this is being examined daily and the entire family is tightening up on the practice of poverty. Some communities don’t even have cars. They walk to take a bus. In many houses friars are being ordered to clear out their rooms of things like computers, cell phones, iPods, TVs, stereos, radios. The rule and constitutions do not allow this. These things have slipped in little by little. Someone excused it once and then again and again and before you knew it, it became very common, especially in the USA and Europe. That’s what the reform is about, to go back to the austere life.

But not every religious order or religious congregations has the same degree of asuterity. Some were not founded on that principle. For example, the Carmelites were founded to be hermits. Their life was to be very simple; but they were not founded to be beggers. The Franciscans were founded to be beggers, with one condition. The friars were to beg, only if they did not make enough money from their work. They were to try to earn a living by working first.

The Jesuits were never meant to be poor. They were a military society. They shared everyting. That is there poverty. No one owns anything. But they can have whatever they need to make them comfortable and make their work easier. If you notice, Jesuits never wore a habit. They wore the same clothes as secular priests, even though they are religious. Poverty is not a priority to them, as long as they share what they have.

We have big problems in religious life regarding poverty. If we deny this, then we are denying the existence of mediocrity. But we must also realize that each religious community was founded with a different focus. Poverty is necessary for religious life. Religious need to become more detached. At the same time, not all religious are gong to have the same practices and customs. Each must get back to their roots.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Thanks Bro JR for your explanation. Yes, I think there is a big problems in religious life regarding poverty. It has been changed a lot especially here in Jakarta (it’s a very big city).

I always respect more to the ones who try to be faithful from their poverty vow.

Oh yes one question, what do you think if there is priest from OFM who wear branded jacket? is it okay based on their order? Please don’t misunderstand I don’t mean to say something bad about it I just want to talk about the fact in real life about the way of life of religious life. (not all but some)

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Agreed. But the difficult is that how to measure “too much”

Yes Bro I understand. But I’ve been told there is a priest rejects to go to bless the house if he was not picked up by car. Sorry I don’t mean to disrespect. But on other side there are priests which he rejects to be picked up by car and only use his bicycle to go for it.

Well anyway…I think it’s all about individual choice about their life style even for priests.

We live out the vows, obedience, poverty, and chastity, as individuals. We follow our rule and constitutions in doing so.

I have issues with people who chose to compare how one person chooses to live a vow against how another person chooses to live the vow. Especially if they are of different religious orders/communities.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I always respect more to the ones who try to be faithful from their poverty vow.

See here it is. This is my problem with the vows.

You should phrase it this way as this is the truth.

“I always respect more to the one who try to be faithful from their poverty vow as I think they should be living that vow of poverty.”

That is the truth, it is very subjective an it places your opinion over that of the person actually living the vow according to their choices and how they see the rule and constitutions and the view of their superiors.

For me the most important vow is obedience, that is less subjective. Either they are obedient and do as they are asked happily or they are not obedient.

I also believe it is highly disrespectful for anyone to tell a religious how to live out his/her vows or even to think the religious is not living out his/her vows as they think he/she should live them out. The only person that has a say is the individual religious and their legitimate superiors and spiritual directors.

 

[JReducation]

Thanks Bro JR for your explanation.
Oh yes one question, what do you think if there is priest from OFM who wear branded jacket? is it okay based on their order? Please don’t misunderstand I don’t mean to say something bad about it I just want to talk about the fact in real life about the way of life of religious life. (not all but some)

That is one of the issues that the reformation of the Franciscan family is trying to correct. There are three rules that St. Francis wrote. All three are very specific about material poverty, probably more than any other order, because for Francis poverty was part of obedience. He saw them as inseparable.

Unfortunately, in Europe and North America we have become very lax in this area. The new constitutions that are comming out are addressing this and some people are not happy. But that’s the way it is. The constitutions are simply explaining what the rule says. As I said, some friars have already been told to empty out their closets, their rooms, hand over the car keys, hand over every gift, ask for everything that they need and so forth. It’s spreading.

However, you must remember that in large orders, such as international orders like the Friars Minor who are in 114 countries, this reform is going to take time to spread. The short answer that I can give you is that no Franciscan, of any of the five obediences should be wearing anything that the common working man cannot afford. But that is going to be different from one country to another. I don’t know what the common working man in your country would afford.

There are new constitutions coming out at the end of this summer. I know that one of the things that is going to be in there is the demand that the friars wear habits all the time. I don’t know how long they have to implement it. When our constitution changed to habits 24/7 they gave us one-year to change to that. The Franciscans of the Reform were not given any time at all. It was to be immediate.

But most of the Friars Minor that I know, even when they do not wear a habit, dress in very simple clothing.

Fraternally in the Risen Lord,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I have to say that I am very disappointed.

Maybe its because it is Easter Sunday but I would expect other religious to be outraged that a lay person has stated that she grants respect, or more respect, to a religious accorded to how she views they live one of the vows.

Talking about judgment and disrespect.

I am so sad.

(maybe it also has to do with my not being well this weekend so I missed all Easter Vigil and Easter Sunday services)

 

[wina]

We live out the vows, obedience, poverty, and chastity, as individuals. We follow our rule and constitutions in doing so.

I have issues with people who chose to compare how one person chooses to live a vow against how another person chooses to live the vow. Especially if they are of different religious orders/communities.

Sorry Bro.David, I’m sorry if I made you being offended by saying it. But I will not compare if they are different order but the fact is they are in the same religious order but the way of their life are different. That makes me wonder as normal human don’t they take the same vow?. I may not be right to judge but
as human realize or unrealize we will judge although probably differently. That’s why we are so weak abou not judging others.
And trully we need to try hard not to do it.

 

[wina]

That is one of the issues that the reformation of the Franciscan family is trying to correct. There are three rules that St. Francis wrote. All three are very specific about material poverty, probably more than any other order, because for Francis poverty was part of obedience. He saw them as inseparable.

Unfortunately, in Europe and North America we have become very lax in this area. The new constitutions that are comming out are addressing this and some people are not happy. But that’s the way it is. The constitutions are simply explaining what the rule says. As I said, some friars have already been told to empty out their closets, their rooms, hand over the car keys, hand over every gift, ask for everything that they need and so forth. It’s spreading.

However, you must remember that in large orders, such as international orders like the Friars Minor who are in 114 countries, this reform is going to take time to spread. The short answer that I can give you is that no Franciscan, of any of the five obediences should be wearing anything that the common working man cannot afford. But that is going to be different from one country to another. I don’t know what the common working man in your country would afford.

There are new constitutions coming out at the end of this summer. I know that one of the things that is going to be in there is the demand that the friars wear habits all the time. I don’t know how long they have to implement it. When our constitution changed to habits 24/7 they gave us one-year to change to that. The Franciscans of the Reform were not given any time at all. It was to be immediate.

But most of the Friars Minor that I know, even when they do not wear a habit, dress in very simple clothing.

Fraternally in the Risen Lord,

Br. JR, OSF

Thanks Brother for your explanation and once again I’m sorry if I did offend some people with my comparison. Honestly I’m very sad that there are some religious people don’t obey their poverty vow especially which their order have.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Sorry Bro.David, I’m sorry if I made you being offended by saying it. But I will not compare if they are different order but the fact is they are in the same religious order but the way of their life are different. That makes me wonder as normal human don’t they take the same vow?. I may not be right to judge but
as human realize or unrealize we will judge although probably differently. That’s why we are so weak abou not judging others.
And trully we need to try hard not to do it.

All religious take the same vows (they may name this differently and number them differently but they are the evangelical counsels).

The way we chose to live them out is personal for the most part. As long as we do not cause scandal or go against what our superiors think, then we may live the vows as we chose.

That is a fact and you have no right to judge as you have no way of knowing what is in the mind of the one you are judging. It is uncharitable and unchristian. Period.

 

[wina]

I have to say that I am very disappointed.

Maybe its because it is Easter Sunday but I would expect other religious to be outraged that a lay person has stated that she grants respect, or more respect, to a religious accorded to how she views they live one of the vows.

Talking about judgment and disrespect.

I am so sad.

(maybe it also has to do with my not being well this weekend so I missed all Easter Vigil and Easter Sunday services)

I’m so sorry Bro David if the way I said offended you very much. Please accept my apology and I will say no more.

Peace

Wina

 

[JReducation]

I have to say that I am very disappointed.

Maybe its because it is Easter Sunday but I would expect other religious to be outraged that a lay person has stated that she grants respect, or more respect, to a religious accorded to how she views they live one of the vows.

Talking about judgment and disrespect.

I am so sad.

(maybe it also has to do with my not being well this weekend so I missed all Easter Vigil and Easter Sunday services)

I think that when it comes to poverty, we have to be gentle and honest. In the USA and in Europe many of us have steered very far from the ideals of our founders and our rules. We do have to correct that.

Also, poverty is the one vow that the faithful can actually see in pratice. They are going to call it into question. This does not mean that every religiuos institute must live poverty to the same degree, because this was never the intent of the Church or the founders. What it means is that each institute has to examine itself and ensure that it lives poverty according to its charism. If we are doing that, then we can explain to the faithful the difference between a community like the Missionaries of Charity who live a very austere poverty and the monastic orders who own great tracts of land and have industries to support themselves.

My belief is that as long as we are living poverty as is proper to our charism, we have nothing to worry about when someone asks. We can simply explain our charism.

For example, in this case the poster asked about the Friars Minor. It would be dishonest to say that the Friars Minor are allowed to dress better than the working man. Because it’s not true. The rule and constitutions are very clear on that. That being said, the conditions of the working man vary from one country to another. That must also be explained. Compared to the developing nations, the working man in Europe and North America has more resources.

Are Franciscans always as simple as we’re supposed to be? No. We must be the first to say that we must convert in that area. We should not wait for the faithful to point it out to us or to ask us. But if we are being faithful and we are asked, then we can explain without any discomfort.

For example, I have no problem explaining that we have computers that we share and that we use for our ministry. I would feel very uncomfortable saying that we each have our own computer. Thank God we don’t. We only have two, a PC and a laptop. They both belong to the ministry. They don’t go with us when we move.

I don’t see the statement as disrespectful if it’s fair. In this case, it is fair. My Franciscan family has to return to the basics and we’re trying. It may take another 20 years, but I believe that it will happen. I would find it disrespectful if I told the truth and someone bashed me. But I’m admitting that we can do better; therefore the secular person would be very unjust to attack me.

Do you see my logic?

Fraternally in the Risen Lord,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Honestly I’m very sad that there are some religious people don’t obey their poverty vow especially which their order have.

As you think they should.

Please when you say this add this as it is what you mean.