Disrespect

[JReducation]

Thanks Brother for your explanation and once again I’m sorry if I did offend some people with my comparison. Honestly I’m very sad that there are some religious people don’t obey their poverty vow especially which their order have.

Don’t misunderstand. These men never intended to be disobedient. What has happened to the Franciscan family is really bigger than disobedience. During the 1800s the bishops asked the Franciscans to give them priests for their parishes. The Franciscans wanted to help the missions. They ordained many men, which was the first mistake. But they did not know how this would affect them in the future.;

They sent these men to live in parishes. Many of them lived alone or in very small fraternities. Gradually, over 100 years or so, they began to adopt some of the practices of the diocesan clergy. Diocesan deacons and priests do not make vows of poverty. The Franciscans in parishes began to have things and the same comforts that the diocesan priests around them had.

By the time that 1970 came around, the order realized that it was in trouble. Too many friars were living as if they were diocesan priests. During the 1980s the talks about reform began. In 1990 the first reforms came. Then more reforms in 2000 and more in 2008.

It is not that people were trying to disobey. It is that they were put into situations that were not helpful to them. That’s one reason why the reform is now reducing the number of friars that are sent to parishes, to return to the austerity of the St. Francis.

It was really somethng that happened by accident without anyone knowing what was going to happen in the future.

Do you understand?

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Dale_M]

We had a lot of deacons, several priests, brothers and sisters on CAF and they have gradually left. The PMs that fly back and forth is the same thing. “I will not deal with people who don’t want to understand, but just want to drive home their point and tell everyone what to do.” It’s a pity. I know some of these guys and they are really good guys who are very interested in following the Pope’s idea regarding the internet and technology for evangelization. My non-Franciscan friends tease me. They ask me why I stay on CAF.

Isn’t it sad that CAF has driven away so many, and that it has developed such a bad reputation? I think CAF has become more charitable than it was, say, four years ago. But then I don’t frequent the same threads and forums that deacons, priests, brothers and sisters tend to pay attention to, so I may be simply missing much of it.

One of my great shocks when I joined CAF was how uncharitable and judgmental lay Catholic members were when speaking about bishops, priests and sisters with whom they disagreed with. Its better now, but there is still a surprising amount of rudeness which is often cheered on by other members.

I like the proposal that CAF adopt a new rule that deacons, priests, brothers and sisters be accorded the respect they deserve. Although I dislike adding another burden to the already overburdened moderators, I think it would be very healthy for keeping non-lay menbers and for fostering productive discussion.

For example, the complaint about the retreat house which was no longer strictly Catholic could have turned into a discussion of ways and strategies to support the centre so that it could be strictly Catholic. Dialogue which results in productive action and cooperation is far, far better than simply airing complaints. But this takes respectful listening, and a willingness to dialogue.

(maybe it also has to do with my not being well this weekend so I missed all Easter Vigil and Easter Sunday services)

Br. David, I am very sorry to hear you were so ill during Easter. I truly hope that you recover some of that lost well-being soon.

And thank you for sticking around here, despite the difficulties that we add to your life. Your posts have enlightened me many times.

 

[JReducation]

Isn’t it sad that CAF has driven away so many, and that it has developed such a bad reputation? I think CAF has become more charitable than it was, say, four years ago. But then I don’t frequent the same threads and forums that deacons, priests, brothers and sisters tend to pay attention to, so I may be simply missing much of it.

One of my great shocks when I joined CAF was how uncharitable and judgmental lay Catholic members were when speaking about bishops, priests and sisters with whom they disagreed with. Its better now, but there is still a surprising amount of rudeness which is often cheered on by other members.

I like the proposal that CAF adopt a new rule that deacons, priests, brothers and sisters be accorded the respect they deserve. Although I dislike adding another burden to the already overburdened moderators, I think it would be very healthy for keeping non-lay menbers and for fostering productive discussion.

Dale:

I think that what happens on CAF is a reflection of what happens in the media. Modern society has lost all sense of respect. If you watch the news, people don’t just report a story anymore, they attack. If you watch stand-up comedy, there is nothing reverent, whether it’s God, family, sex, etc. Even politicians, who used to be very diplomatic are now acting foolishly. We saw what happened recently at the White House between the President and the Prime Minister of Israel. Such cutting behavior by a hosting president was unheard of. The list goes on.

What I find most sad is that I would expect people of faith to set the standard with respect and diplomacy. Some people seem to think that “political correctness” is a dirty word. But the truth is that political correctness has always existed. It was called tact and diplomacy. You can disagree and you can present your concerns without violating the rules of tact and diplomacy. But we have become like rowdy children. We scream and insult without given a thought to the fact that the person receiving is a human being with feelings and dignity.

To use the name of God to justify this behavior is offensive to God. Jesus was the most diplomatic man on earth. All we have to do is reread the Gospel of Good Friday. Not once does Jesus offend. Yet he speaks the truth and even challenges Pilate.

We need to learn this.

Fraternally in the Risen Lord,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[joandarc2008]

Bro. David I am so sorry to hear that you were sick on Easter. That is a terrible day to be sick.

One thing I wish CAF would do is give the religious and identification that has been verified. There have been cases in other forums such as Family Living where someone has Bishop in their name and then admits they are a member of the laity. However, before the admittance they were speaking garbage as if they had the authority behind full ordination. This hurts those actual religous members on here.

I just remember an argument I used with a social worker I work with who wanted to tell a coworker and myself that she could understand why my coworker hadn’t been to Catholic mass in a while with all the sex stuff going on the Church. I looked at her directly and told her that when something is doing good is when evil will try the hardest to bring it down.

 

[JReducation]

Bro. David I am so sorry to hear that you were sick on Easter. That is a terrible day to be sick.

One thing I wish CAF would do is give the religious and identification that has been verified. There have been cases in other forums such as Family Living where someone has Bishop in their name and then admits they are a member of the laity. However, before the admittance they were speaking garbage as if they had the authority behind full ordination. This hurts those actual religous members on here.

.

I don’t think that Catholic Answers wants to ask for letters or certificates of profession or ordination from our superiors, for one simple reason. That’s a lot of paper work for them.

I do think that CAF can establish a policy that if someone’s title is Fr., Br, Sr, Deacon, you treat them with proper respect and give them the benefit of the doubt. If they say something that’s outlandish or disrespectful, then you report it.

About two years ago, someone complained to CAF about something that I said. It had to do with my training. I can’t remember the exact complaint. I received a very polite PM from a CAF moderator. I simply sent her the address and telephone number of the Ministry to which I am assigned. I don’t think they ever called. But that was enough.

If you something back like, My name is Fr. John Doe and I’m stationed at St. Mary’s Catholic Church at 100 Main Street, Any City, USA in the Archdiocese of Oz. The telephone numer is 555-1212. That’s enough.

Catholic Answers does not want to follow-up on every single person, that would take up a lot of time. And superiors, pastors and bishops do not want to get requests from every forum or blog asking for confirmation of the facts. My superior would probably just encourage me to drop it, because he’s not going to waste his time on this, just to please one complaining person on this forum or that blog. You see what I mean.

But if Catholic Answers wants information and you just send them your full name and where you’re assigned, that’s enough. But they don’t usually want that information unless you’re a problem. Why would they want to create more work for themselves?

The solution is simple, posters must give others the benefit of the doubt and respond appropriately. If something is wrong or the person is rude or mean, you report it.

The problem is that posters on CAF are very hung-up on “prove it”. If you say, “Jesus rose from the dead.” Someone is going to post back, “citation please”. Give me a break here. This is a forum, not a research class. If you want that information, go find it youself. When religoius answer that way, others get angry and rude. If a religious, deacon or priest says that the Church teaches this or that. You get attacked for being a liberal. When did we in the USA become so obsessed with labels? Last night I read a post where priests were being classified as: Traditional, orthodox, conservative and liberal. I was thinking, I’m all of the above. It depends on the question.

But the way that I figure it is this way, if I spent 7 years studying theology to know this, the poster can spend 30 minutes looking sometihng up on the internet without attacking me, just because I can’t remember exactly what professor or what book said something.

We all read about slavery in the USA. Who remembers what book they read it in and what page? The demand for proof, requires that do the work for someone else. If you no longer have the book, you have to search the internet to find the information. The other person can do that too, without attacking you. If they have questions about your religious life, which is another point, they can look up information on almost every religoius tradition in the Church.

It’s just my two cents. Don’t take it to the bank.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[joandarc2008]

I don’t think that Catholic Answers wants to ask for letters or certificates of profession or ordination from our superiors, for one simple reason. That’s a lot of paper work for them.

I do think that CAF can establish a policy that if someone’s title is Fr., Br, Sr, Deacon, you treat them with proper respect and give them the benefit of the doubt. If they say something that’s outlandish or disrespectful, then you report it.

About two years ago, someone complained to CAF about something that I said. It had to do with my training. I can’t remember the exact complaint. I received a very polite PM from a CAF moderator. I simply sent her the address and telephone number of the Ministry to which I am assigned. I don’t think they ever called. But that was enough.

If you something back like, My name is Fr. John Doe and I’m stationed at St. Mary’s Catholic Church at 100 Main Street, Any City, USA in the Archdiocese of Oz. The telephone numer is 555-1212. That’s enough.

Catholic Answers does not want to follow-up on every single person, that would take up a lot of time. And superiors, pastors and bishops do not want to get requests from every forum or blog asking for confirmation of the facts. My superior would probably just encourage me to drop it, because he’s not going to waste his time on this, just to please one complaining person on this forum or that blog. You see what I mean.

But if Catholic Answers wants information and you just send them your full name and where you’re assigned, that’s enough. But they don’t usually want that information unless you’re a problem. Why would they want to create more work for themselves?

The solution is simple, posters must give others the benefit of the doubt and respond appropriately. If something is wrong or the person is rude or mean, you report it.

The problem is that posters on CAF are very hung-up on “prove it”. If you say, “Jesus rose from the dead.” Someone is going to post back, “citation please”. Give me a break here. This is a forum, not a research class. If you want that information, go find it youself. When religoius answer that way, others get angry and rude. If a religious, deacon or priest says that the Church teaches this or that. You get attacked for being a liberal. When did we in the USA become so obsessed with labels? Last night I read a post where priests were being classified as: Traditional, orthodox, conservative and liberal. I was thinking, I’m all of the above. It depends on the question.

But the way that I figure it is this way, if I spent 7 years studying theology to know this, the poster can spend 30 minutes looking sometihng up on the internet without attacking me, just because I can’t remember exactly what professor or what book said something.

We all read about slavery in the USA. Who remembers what book they read it in and what page? The demand for proof, requires that do the work for someone else. If you no longer have the book, you have to search the internet to find the information. The other person can do that too, without attacking you. If they have questions about your religious life, which is another point, they can look up information on almost every religoius tradition in the Church.

It’s just my two cents. Don’t take it to the bank.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

No, what you are saying makes a lot of sense. I just couldn’t imagine taking your two cents to the bank as under the Obama plan it would completely get wiped out in taxes anyway. Now, I also can’t imagine complaining about a religious member unless they were saying something outlandish such as it is OK to be Catholic and provide abortion services. I however would address it with that person or their superior not wiht the forum itself.

 

[joandarc2008]

I guess at times though we can all be human beings who just want the last word Hmmm. Something I have been guilty enough of in RL but in here at least I have an edit button.