Dissenters: Why do you call yourself a Catholic?

[MIZER]

drpmijhess,

Why are you so argumentative?

So you won’t be asking sinners to leave the Church – that’s good!

I never even suggested or hinted that sinners should leave the church.

I’m the one that made the distinction between the catholic individuals who believe the church teaches the truth and simply struggle with the sin involved in living a lifestyle that goes against that truth and those catholic individuals who fail to accept that the church teaches the truth, insisting instead that the church is in error when she defines an action that embraces intrinsic evil, as sinful.

It is the former catholic we are calling orthodox (real) catholics and the later we are calling non-orthodox or “in name only” catholics. The distinction has to do with belief, that is faith, not behavior.

I haven’t read anyone on this board so much as make the suggestion, I know I haven’t, that anyone, sinner or saint, should leave the church, we are simply trying to get someone in the “name only” camp to tell us why they don’t. Can you see the difference? Can you answer the question?

 

[MIZER]

posted by New Ulm…

What we see here is a difference between a rigid and calcified view of Church teachings and a fluid, dynamic one which relates to the day to day world with real-life applications. Most threads on CAF revolve around this difference in thinking. The Church is made up of a couple billion people, if you travel you see many local diversity in the Church, which helps it grow. CAF is one form of outreach to show the strong diversity in the Church and the well reasoned discussion on the issues and teachings, as the vast majority can be discussed in relation to the present and how they came about in Church history.

This is,… trying to be nice, this is… I can’t type the word and still be nice. So I won’t.

What we see here is a bunch of catholics, who want to live their lives with modern convenience, expediency and comfort, as they wish and not as their Church (God) dictates. That’s it.

I’m not the moderator, nor am I the one who created Catholic Answers but I’m pretty sure it wasn’t created to “show the strong diversity in the One Church” which is supposed to be “one mind.”

My goodness. To such lengths humanity will go to have their way about things, and not submit to the authority of the Father. May God help us all.

 

[MIZER]

New Ulm continued with:

All of us on (and off) CAF are made in the image of God. We are growing in our faith through discussion of the issues of our day. The more we discuss, the stronger the Church (at all levels) gets, the diversity keeps the Church relevant to the modern world and constantly renews the Church.

One must make the distinction between diversity in those matters that we are allowed to be diverse on and those matters we are not. The church is diverse in that it is made up of people from every nation and every walk of life. That is the diversity that makes the church stronger day by day and relevant to the modern world. As a unified body of believers we are to be like minded and unified in our belief’s, that is the one faith, the revalation of Christ, the Gospel. This Gospel includes any and every difinitive teaching of the One Church. Diversity in this area does not build up the Church, it makes it weeker. Read the scriptures, division in faith is not of Christ. Christ is all about unity. Oneness. One faith, one baptism, one church, one…

 

[iamrefreshed]

New Ulm continued with:

One must make the distinction between diversity in those matters that we are allowed to be diverse on and those matters we are not. The church is diverse in that it is made up of people from every nation and every walk of life. That is the diversity that makes the church stronger day by day and relevant to the modern world. As a unified body of believers we are to be like minded and unified in our belief’s, that is the one faith, the revalation of Christ, the Gospel. This Gospel includes any and every difinitive teaching of the One Church. Diversity in this area does not build up the Church, it makes it weeker. Read the scriptures, division in faith is not of Christ. Christ is all about unity. Oneness. One faith, one baptism, one church, one…

Call me uncharitable? Go ahead.

I don’t want half catholics dragging others to hell. You want to go, knock yourself out! Stop preaching your HERESY to others!

Yes, you are HERETICS. Don’t like the word? Sorry, you can change it not me! You are in HERESY with the church.

I will defend others against your HERESY always!

I’m sure the devil would condemn me for the use of the wrod ‘heritic’.

 

[reggieM]

drpmjhess said:
“Except that Jesus (who is God) never said anything about “artificial” contraception.”

Please prove that Jesus never said anything about artificial contraception.

We’ll have to assume that you know everything that Jesus has ever said (including his commentary on Genesis chapter 38, and Tobit chapter 6) and that he never mentioned this.

So, you just need to tell us how you know everything Jesus ever said – after that, I’ll have to take your word for it that he never mentioned this topic.

Given that the entire rabbinical tradition at the time of Christ interpreted Genesis chapter 38 as a condemnation of contraception, it’s difficult to imagine how Jesus never said anything to the apostles about it. But apparently, you know everything Jesus said.

Your demand for a Gospel verse indicates your belief that everything Jesus said was recorded in the Gospels.

The condemnation of contraception was widespread among the early Fathers of the Church.

The propositions constituting a condemnation of contraception are, it will be seen, recurrent. Since the first clear mention of contraception by a Christian theologian, when a harsh third-century moralist accused a pope of encouraging it, the articulated judgment has been the same. In the world of the late Empire known to St. Jerome and St. Augustine, in the Ostrogothic Arles of Bishop Caesarius and the Suevian Braga of Bishop Martin, in the Paris of St. Albert and St. Thomas, in the Renaissance Rome of Sixtus V and the Renaissance Milan of St. Charles Borromeo, in the Naples of St. Alphonsus Liguori and Liege of Charles Billuart, in the Philadelphia of Bishop Kenrick, and in the Bombay of Cardinal Gracias, the teachers of the Church have taught without hestitation or variation that certain acts preventing procreation are gravely sinful. No Catholic theologian has ever taught, ‘Contraception is a good act.’ The teaching on contraception is clear and apparently fixed forever.

John T. Noonan, Jr. - Contraception: A History of Its Treatment by the Catholic Theologians and Canonists

Your dissent against the teaching of the Church has already been noted by everyone here, I think, by now. Using the standard Sola Scriptura approach to defend your rejection of this doctrine is pretty weak, even by liberal Catholic standards. But I’m not surprised by that.

“It’s not in the Gospel, so its a man made doctrine!!!”

Goodness, that is sad.

I would love to see your defense of the dogma of the Immaculate Conception. Perhaps you reject that *de fide *doctrine also, who knows? At this point, why not? Apparently, there is some kind of customized version of Catholicism that you reveal to people (the “true” Catholic teaching). The Dr. Hess Catholic Church – true doctrines of Christ revealed only to him (and his friends).

For the record, the teachings of the Catholic Church are founded in part on the oral teachings of Christ to His apostles, handed down to the earliest communities (and not put into writings).

 

[MIZER]

iamrefreshed posted:

Do you feel better for correcting a spelling error?

We try to correct your misguided life altering decisions over your catholic beliefs and take grief for being judgemental and you deride us for spelling?

I thank you for this support.

My spelling problem is genetic. I was thinking that perhaps drpmijhess is simply glad he found something, however trivial it may be, which he can be right about.

 

[MIZER]

Your claim was either incoherent, or deliberately perverse:

“Wouldn’t it stand to reason that the overpopulation crowd would be happy to hear about such things?”

You insult those who work hard for human welfare by imputing to them rejoicing over the death of many by starvation. Should I assume that’s your emotions speaking, or your narrow, bigoted conservative Catholicism?

I seem to have offended drpmjhess. Ok I understand what you are saying and I admit to being tsupid on this one. tso tsorry.

 

[MIZER]

I meant, tstupid.

 

[Camron]

I meant, tstupid.

That was a good one. :clapping: :clapping:

 

[Robert_Bay]

THREAD CLOSED

Thank you to everyone who participated