Distribution of Wealth

[christcnection1]

Do you buy imported items from China or numerous other third world countries where workers barely get enough money to survive? I go out of my way to buy products made in countries with good working conditions. I do not feel guity that the kid a the fast food restaurant is making such a low wage they have to buy a used car instead of a new one. Here in America we live in such luxury that we don’t understand what it means to truly be poor.

Indeed… I suppose most of us could make great strides in these areas.

Do you know of any good websites that provide information pertaining to this, in hopes of making better purchasing choices? Thanks.

 

[Sailka]

Thanks for all your thoughts, and for providing the wealth of information.

Concerning private property not being an absolute right, are you suggesting (and the Church suggesting) that

[SIGN]the government has a right at some point to take away someone’s wealth if it will support the common good?

If I may add my :twocents: : No one is suggesting ‘taking away’ a persons wealth. All common sense says no one should Avoid Sharing reasonable amount of their wealth for the common good, like defense, paying interest, Paying salaries. The Current administration has reversed History by transferring massive wealth From poor and middle Class to Wealthiest. Poor and Middle Class have less ownership in the USA than 8 years ago. The wealthiest 1%, indeed 5% have far higher ownership of National Wealth, relativelly. Don’t forget that All sectors of the USA prospered in the Bill Clinton 1990’s. Banks had record profits, and the Federal Government record surpluses, Including a small $28 Billion in FY 2001, which Bush quickly killed by Big tax cuts to the mostly.

The Church, everybody believes in Progressive taxation. Its universally agreed.

 

[christcnection1]

In that example everyone was taxed evenly. every one paid the same coin. In today’s world some are taxed while others are not.

Fair enough… I thought you were suggesting that any taxation is theft or stealing. This I would disagree with. However, I do agree that taxing people at different rates is different than a flat rate.

 

[Sailka]

Thanks for all your thoughts, and for providing the wealth of information.

Concerning private property not being an absolute right, are you suggesting (and the Church suggesting) that the government has a right at some point to take away someone’s wealth if it will support the common good?

Does the Church define under what circumstances such a reality could take place? I ask this because some here would consider any “redistribution” of wealth as theft, and depending on what we are discussing, I may or may not agree.

Finally, in light of your understanding of Catholic Social Teaching, what changes do you believe ought to be taken by our government in regards to fiscal policy? You seem to be right in line with the Church on moral issues, so that is pretty clear. But on some level, I suppose you can’t separate the two.

Democratic Party from 2001 on has held for Not continuing the Big Tax cuts on the wealthiest done in 2001. Even Alan Greenspan Testified they should be reviewed, and not made permanent. The USA is now technically bankrupt (The GAO May 2008 Annual Fiscal report on the USA)

The Federal Deficit a year ago was projected not at Bush’s $360 B level, but $600 B months ago. It is now projected at more than $1.2 Trillion. Seems like we ought to try to pay our Bills. At least Try. And the wealthiest, not the poorest should lead the way. The wealthiiest are most able to. And they were the recipients of the Transfer Up, which is The Globalization goal.

Globalization has focused on trandferring Government Support To the Wealthiest. But as China abnd Africa are also discovering, That enriches the Richest,m at the expense of the Poor and middle Class. In China so far, it is Only the Vast enrichment of the Richest; But is becoming Concern, especially by Dispossesed poor/peasants.

 

[JPUSC]

Thanks for all your thoughts, and for providing the wealth of information.

Concerning private property not being an absolute right, are you suggesting (and the Church suggesting) that the government has a right at some point to take away someone’s wealth if it will support the common good?

Does the Church define under what circumstances such a reality could take place? I ask this because some here would consider any “redistribution” of wealth as theft, and depending on what we are discussing, I may or may not agree.

Finally, in light of your understanding of Catholic Social Teaching, what changes do you believe ought to be taken by our government in regards to fiscal policy? You seem to be right in line with the Church on moral issues, so that is pretty clear. But on some level, I suppose you can’t separate the two.

Well, the Church says that one should have solidarity, a determination to commit oneself to the common good. There should be true charity, not one forced by the government nor done on the basis of tax incentives. Though, this would probably only work in a perfect world with sin and greed.

The Church saying that private property is not an absolute right pertains to the fact that God is the owner of all creation, including our own human bodies. God only allows man and governments to be stewards over the earth (if they are doing His will).

The government doesn’t represent God, and they cannot forcibly take someone’s property unless there was a very good reason (i.e. a matter of life and death, perhaps). If a person with a lot of wealth does not voluntarily share the blessings he has received, then that person would be judged by God himself.

I personally would not support the about-to-be U.S. administration forcibly taking one’s wealth because I do not support their social agenda which may conflict with the Church’s teaching. The morality of the Democrat party is based on relative morality and is not compatible with the common good.

If the Church’s teachings were to be implemented in the U.S., I think taxes should be based on one’s income, but the government shouldn’t overdo it. People who have worked hard for their money should be able to enjoy it while people who cannot help themselves should be given support by the government so that they can rise from their situation.

Americans and the Western World can also learn a lesson from the society in Tonga, where materialism is not as important, but God and family are given priority.

Tax money should also not go towards anything related to abortion, stem-cell research, etc.

 

[universalist]

As long as corporations and CEOS have no morals and continue to worship mammon at the expense of their own workers and communities then the poor and working class in this country will continue to suffer more and more. capitalism without a conscience is doom to fail the majority of workers in this country,the irony is that most of these corp. leaders call themselves christians but think nothing of moving jobs to other countries(slave labor) and devastating communities that have supported them for years. they must have skipped over most of the GOSPELS where JESUS and his DISCIPLES shared what they had with the poor and needy. IN CHRIST.

 

[royal_archer]

Indeed… I suppose most of us could make great strides in these areas.

Do you know of any good websites that provide information pertaining to this, in hopes of making better purchasing choices? Thanks.

Madeinusa.com. is a start. There are several other lists. Unfortunately most are not upto date. I make it a point to write companies asking where there products are made and lettting Them know that I am not buying specific products because they are imported. I recently sent a set of disapointed letters to Pfaltzgraff because I have a large set of their dishes that I have been adding to over the years. My wife wanted the bigger bowls and mugs that come with the set so I checked and found out they are no longer made in York but are made oversees. I also send out thank you letters when stores provide American products in

Products made in the US and a few other advanced countries provide decent conditions for workers and I let companies know that when I can. I also have a rule that if there is an American equivalent to a product I will always buy it if it is no more tan 150% of the price of the import. Above that, amount I will buy the American product if I can afford it.

 

[royal_archer]

If I may add my :twocents: : No one is suggesting ‘taking away’ a persons wealth. All common sense says no one should Avoid Sharing reasonable amount of their wealth for the common good, like defense, paying interest, Paying salaries. The Current administration has reversed History by transferring massive wealth From poor and middle Class to Wealthiest. Poor and Middle Class have less ownership in the USA than 8 years ago. The wealthiest 1%, indeed 5% have far higher ownership of National Wealth, relativelly. Don’t forget that All sectors of the USA prospered in the Bill Clinton 1990’s. Banks had record profits, and the Federal Government record surpluses, Including a small $28 Billion in FY 2001, which Bush quickly killed by Big tax cuts to the mostly.

The Church, everybody believes in Progressive taxation. Its universally agreed.

Not from the church but still relevant to the discussion: from the 5th Amendement: “…nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.”

 

[christcnection1]

Madeinusa.com. is a start. There are several other lists. Unfortunately most are not upto date. I make it a point to write companies asking where there products are made and lettting Them know that I am not buying specific products because they are imported. I recently sent a set of disapointed letters to Pfaltzgraff because I have a large set of their dishes that I have been adding to over the years. My wife wanted the bigger bowls and mugs that come with the set so I checked and found out they are no longer made in York but are made oversees. I also send out thank you letters when stores provide American products in

Products made in the US and a few other advanced countries provide decent conditions for workers and I let companies know that when I can. I also have a rule that if there is an American equivalent to a product I will always buy it if it is no more tan 150% of the price of the import. Above that, amount I will buy the American product if I can afford it.

Thanks, I’ll check out www.madeinusa.com …If anyone knows of similar sites, feel free share that with us. My guess is there are some good “Fair Trade” organizations too.

Were you referring to York, PA? I ask because I used to live in that area.

 

[royal_archer]

As long as corporations and CEOS have no morals and continue to worship mammon at the expense of their own workers and communities then the poor and working class in this country will continue to suffer more and more. capitalism without a conscience is doom to fail the majority of workers in this country,the irony is that most of these corp. leaders call themselves christians but think nothing of moving jobs to other countries(slave labor) and devastating communities that have supported them for years. they must have skipped over most of the GOSPELS where JESUS and his DISCIPLES shared what they had with the poor and needy. IN CHRIST.

Corporations are that way because consumers are that way. John Q. public will buy the cheepest widget on the shelf at the cheepest departrment store (within a given quality range). That consumer normally does not care how much the CEO or empolyees make, they don’t care if that corporation polutes, and they don’t care about corporate profits. They care about the price/ quality ratio. Till that changes, the corporations won’t change.

 

[barb_finnegan]

Vote for elected officials who will pass legislation that strengthens the family, not weaken it.

Eliminate the marriage penalty. Give more tax credits to families with moe children. Give property tax breaks to those households with a father and a mother. Give a lower interest rate to larger families with a father and a mother present.

Give vouchers to those families that wish to send their children to private school.

Encourage Catholic schools to invert their tuition fees to make them family friendly.

I like your ideas, buffalo…even though none of them would apply to me, being single and all.

How about finding a different way of funding schools? Property taxes are not the way anymore.

 

[royal_archer]

Thanks, I’ll check out www.madeinusa.com …If anyone knows of similar sites, feel free share that with us. My guess is there are some good “Fair Trade” organizations too.

Were you referring to York, PA? I ask because I used to live in that area.

Yes. They closed down the plate factory there and now make them oversees. Even Hershey is moving production oversees.

 

[royal_archer]

Vote for elected officials who will pass legislation that strengthens the family, not weaken it.

Eliminate the marriage penalty. Give more tax credits to families with moe children. Give property tax breaks to those households with a father and a mother. Give a lower interest rate to larger families with a father and a mother present.

Give vouchers to those families that wish to send their children to private school.

Encourage Catholic schools to invert their tuition fees to make them family friendly.

I understand that those with more kids have more needs. But I am concerned that those in need are being encouraged to have more kids. Instead of a flat deduction per child how about an x % reduction in total taxes paid?

 

[universalist]

Royal Archer, I agree that your average American consumer is part of the problem,the only power we have is with our wallets!If enough people demanded products made in america and boycotted cheap chinese ****,problem solved!

 

[Sailka]

Madeinusa.com. is a start. There are several other lists. Unfortunately most are not upto date. I make it a point to write companies asking where there products are made and lettting Them know that I am not buying specific products because they are imported. I recently sent a set of disapointed letters to Pfaltzgraff because I have a large set of their dishes that I have been adding to over the years. My wife wanted the bigger bowls and mugs that come with the set so I checked and found out they are no longer made in York but are made oversees. I also send out thank you letters when stores provide American products in

Products made in the US and a few other advanced countries provide decent conditions for workers and I let companies know that when I can. I also have a rule that if there is an American equivalent to a product I will always buy it if it is no more tan 150% of the price of the import. Above that, amount I will buy the American product if I can afford it.

Way to Go! (But…too many ‘made in USA’ are made in Guam, IS possesions, etc, cheapest labor sites, for tiny pay, deplorable conditions.)
They were in the news months ago, after Congressional hearings.

But Is safe to look for, buy Made in USA! Congratulations on tipping us! And Extra Effort does work. 50 complaints to a chain can cause thought. 500 Much more likelly, might change policy. 5000 complaints are Likelly to change chain Policy! I’ve Notified to “Sunday Only Sale” that am Discontinuing Ever shopping that chain, to Local Manager but especially Corporate Chiefs, unless they reverse policy.

 

[Sailka]

Royal Archer, I agree that your average American consumer is part of the problem,the only power we have is with our wallets!If enough people demanded products made in america and boycotted cheap chinese ****,problem solved!

And Notify the chains.

 

[stringbeanduck]

Royal Archer, I agree that your average American consumer is part of the problem,the only power we have is with our wallets!If enough people demanded products made in america and boycotted cheap chinese ****,problem solved!

Well the problem is, the new administration ( to come) has promised to tax the heck out companies because they make “too much”. I’ll tell you right now if I owned a business I would either sell it to the Chinese or move out of the country. You got to put your self in their situation. Money doesn’t come out of nowhere. You can’t just increase the taxes companies pay and then demand that they pay their workers more money. If you do, then they will raise the cost of product or sell the company or just take it out of the country like I said earlier. Very true, we need more business here, but I promise right now with the new administration (to come) that is not going to happen.

 

[John1]

Passing free trade agreements, NAFTA for us here in the United States, opened the door for large companies such as Levi’s, etc., to move the manufacturing part of their business to countries with cheap labor (that giant sucking sound that one of the politicians talked about several years ago). Using Levi’s as the example, their CEO and stock holders were happy to see a rise in profits for the company, not from increased sales, but decreased manufacturing costs when they sent their factories to a different country. The CEO from Levi might say that they cannot stay competitive in the market unless the manufacturing costs are reduced, which means a downsizing of the workforce, cheaper labor, or cheaper materials for production. Profits are the bottom line. For the consumer, spending the least amount of money for the product desired is the bottom line. Of course the old adage “you get what you pay for” applies to a certain extent. If someone really wants a Cadillac they probably won’t be happy with a Chevy, and they will probably pay a little more to get what they want. Anyway, back to jeans. Since the free trade agreements let companies that manufacture outside the U.S.complete with Companies that do manufacture their product inside the U.S., with no import tariffs and few regulations, the companies manufacturing inside the U.S. really have a hard time competing. I’m all for buying only U.S. made products, but I don’t believe that the majority of Americans would truely stick with that policy, when they can get things that are made elsewhere a lot cheaper. I guess what i’m getting at is the redistribution of wealth does not just apply to the people inside the U.S. and the only control mechanism that the average working person in the U.S. has, is to become educated on how import/export taxation works and to urge the politicians to stop allowing U.S manufactures to take a beating from foreign companies. Personally, I feel that it may be to late and that the wheels are already in motion for a true Global economy,where big business and their leaders are actually running things and not the governments…And remember wahat the Bible says, “the love of money is the root of all evil”.

Blessings

 

[royal_archer]

Well the problem is, the new administration ( to come) has promised to tax the heck out companies because they make “too much”. I’ll tell you right now if I owned a business I would either sell it to the Chinese or move out of the country. You got to put your self in their situation. Money doesn’t come out of nowhere. You can’t just increase the taxes companies pay and then demand that they pay their workers more money. If you do, then they will raise the cost of product or sell the company or just take it out of the country like I said earlier. Very true, we need more business here, but I promise right now with the new administration (to come) that is not going to happen.

and the companies that do not want to move oversees will wind up being bought out by their foriegn competition. Look at Busch beer who provided lots of great jobs and dumped tons of money into local charities. They were hostily taken over by IN-BEV.

 

[Sailka]

Well the problem is, the new administration ( to come) has promised to tax the heck out companies because they make “too much”. I’ll tell you right now if I owned a business I would either sell it to the Chinese or move out of the country. You got to put your self in their situation. Money doesn’t come out of nowhere. You can’t just increase the taxes companies pay and then demand that they pay their workers more money. If you do, then they will raise the cost of product or sell the company or just take it out of the country like I said earlier. Very true, we need more business here, but I promise right now with the new administration (to come) that is not going to happen.

Sorry, you got that Totally wrong! Obama wants to return Over $250,000 Plus crowd to the record Business, Financial Industry, And record National Surpluses Tax rates of Clinton Administration. All had Record Profits. Obama economists want to return the $250+k group to Clinton Business boom Tax rates.
It is the Current Tax slashes to Biggest profits in world history Big Oil, Big Gas, Big Drug manufacturers, and Taxpayer Welfare to Them, that has Literally Bankrupted the USA and Our Future. Didn’t know reality?
Know about our about $1.5 Trillion Federal deficit This year, because of Bush Deregulation caused Credit/Financial Implosion? Want our new Mortgage Holder, Red China, to foreclose on the USA? What if they Deny the New $1.5 Trillion Loan? Know that means Bankruptcy of the USA? The GAO May yearly financial reports on USA Income/Expenses do suggest that, This May. Know what Court would Rule on USA trying “Chapter 11”? Try Red Chinese Govt!. They hold our biggest Notes.

Think Any of this is a stretch, a joke? None of it is. All reality. All Hoover, Economics, Bushonomics Big Money agenda. uch: :dts: :hey_bud:

Wheres the Christian Ethic of the poor, the middle class, Future generations Subsidizing the Richest 5% in the USA?