Distributionism in the Modern Era

[Jozefo]

Catholic social doctrine assumes a just social order. You can’t pick and choose random elements of it, force them onto the world, and insist you’ve created a Catholic society. The only morally consistent worldview is voluntarism. Consent of the governed is an ancient tenant of Catholic political thought, and thus should be assumed in social encyclicals. (That said, considering the state is behind much poverty today, it is morally responsible to give back what it stole.)

The idea that anyone should be permitted to rob from families and businesses in order to centrally plan a just society is a disgusting idea. Especially income tax. Depriving a worker of his wages is a sin that cries out to heaven.

If we really believe what the Church teaches, if subsidiarity really means what we say it means, and if God meant what He said by “thou shalt not steal” and “thou shalt not kill”, there is no need nor justification for government through coercive monopoly.

Even God Himself asks for consent to rule his people. It is just, and right, and good. Anything else is deception.

 

[manualman]

Do you have any distributist ideas that do not depend on government coercion?

If you define the existence of taxes and laws as “government coercion” then no, I suppose I don’t. Do YOU have any economic ideas that aren’t ignorant of Original Sin and it’s effects?

Remember, freedom is NOT the ability to do whatever the heck you want. Freedom is the ability to do what is good. If we both agree that taxes must exist in order to allow modern civilization to function, then we are left to argue about how they should be levied, not IF they should be levied. It’s a copout to label tax structures that favor entrepreneurs as “coercive” and not label the existing tax structures that give better treatment to investors the same way.

 

[melbanglican]

The muddled thinking is without end, for this ridicules the insights of the acknowledged St John Paul II who strongly recommends the “business economy”, “market economy” or simply “free economy”, and who recognises the confusion created by Karl Marx’s “capitalism” syndrome.

The “current system” in most “democracies” has thoroughly decimated free enterprise with socialist style handouts, foolish stimuli, and has precipitated many banking fiascoes.

No wonder there is so little understanding, because economists follow multitudinous theories and until the governmental finagling resulting in the Great Depression is understood little progress will be made.

In the U.S., unlike the very sharp depression of 1920-21 which was short because it was sensibly handled with virtually no intervention, the Great Depression was caused by pumping money into the economy.

… and this is why, every time I ponder the idea of converting to Catholicism, I back away! Too many people I’ve read on this list arrogantly claiming to belong to the ‘one true Church’ while ignoring biblical and Papal teachings on the proper attitudes towards others and coming across like self-centred Calvinists! What about rerum novarum, Quadregisimo (sic) Anno, the writings of their Holinesses John Paul II, Benedict XVI and Francis? Selective quoting of some Papal writings and wilful blindness regarding others does nothing to provide credibility for an argument. Successive Popes have, since 15 May 1891, slammed mindless free market capitalism.

What we seem to have in some parts of the world is Catholicism tainted by the ‘American’ capitalist culture of selfishness and greed. (This is a misnomer - greed and selfishness do not stop at geographical borders.) I don’t understand how one can be a true Christian (never mind a true Catholic!) if one fails to follow the teachings laid down in Dt 15: 7-11, Mt 25: 31-46 and Jas 2: 14-17. Perhaps if such people will not follow the teachings of the Papacy, they will at least follow the commandments of God and the teachings of Our Lord!

By the way, there is a better, Catholic way in business - Mondragon!! It’s catching on in North America and other parts as well.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

Mondragon like Distributionism is a “feel good” economic system that is not geared for growth beyond small cooperatives.

Last year the largest and most important unit of Mondragon, Fagor Electrodomésticos Group. filed for bankruptcy.

 

[Abu]

melbanglican #22
… and this is why, every time I ponder the idea of converting to Catholicism, I back away! Too many people I’ve read on this list arrogantly claiming to belong to the ‘one true Church’ while ignoring biblical and Papal teachings on the proper attitudes towards others and coming across like self-centred Calvinists!

Fancy not really entering into Christ’s one, holy, Catholic and apostolic Church because some Catholics are perceived to “ignore” some teachings! I’ve never heard a worse excuse for not embracing the fullness of truth.

Popes have, since 15 May 1891, slammed mindless free market capitalism.
What about rerum novarum, Quadregisimo (sic) Anno, the writings of their Holinesses John Paul II, Benedict XVI and Francis?

But what of the myopic feeling that biblical and papal teachings have been ignored? Another red herring which obscures the lack of understanding of biblical and papal teaching.

Obviously the Encyclicals have not been understood at all.

Catholic social teaching condemns Communism, Socialism and the Welfare State.
No Catholic papal social teaching refers to “laissez-faire”, which is a term coined by a school of economics – the “Physiocrats”.

Not only has free enterprise raised the welfare of untold millions out of poverty, but is emphatically affirmed by St John Paul II in* Centesimus Annus*, 42, 1991:
‘If by “capitalism” is meant an economic system which recognizes the fundamental and positive role of business, the market, private property and the resulting responsibility for the means of production, as well as free human creativity in the economic sector, then the answer is certainly in the affirmative, even though it would perhaps be more appropriate to speak of a “business economy”, “market economy” or simply “free economy”.’

St John Paul II dislikes the Marxist term “capitalism” – the Holy Father prefers a “business economy”, “market economy” or simply “free economy”.

Pope Emeiitus Benedict XVI:
“Society does not have to protect itself from the market, as if the development of the latter were ipso facto to entail the death of authentically human relations…Therefore it is not the instrument that must be called to account, but individuals, their moral conscience and their personal and social responsibility.” (Caritas in Veritate, 2009, #36).

It is not the great free enterprise system which is evil; it is evil individuals who are instrumental in prostituting it and everyone they prey upon. Don’t blame free enterprise – get real.

 

[MarkInOregon]

… and this is why, every time I ponder the idea of converting to Catholicism, I back away! Too many people I’ve read on this list arrogantly claiming to belong to the ‘one true Church’ while ignoring biblical and Papal teachings on the proper attitudes towards others and coming across like self-centred Calvinists! What about rerum novarum, Quadregisimo (sic) Anno, the writings of their Holinesses John Paul II, Benedict XVI and Francis? Selective quoting of some Papal writings and wilful blindness regarding others does nothing to provide credibility for an argument. Successive Popes have, since 15 May 1891, slammed mindless free market capitalism.

What we seem to have in some parts of the world is Catholicism tainted by the ‘American’ capitalist culture of selfishness and greed. (This is a misnomer - greed and selfishness do not stop at geographical borders.) I don’t understand how one can be a true Christian (never mind a true Catholic!) if one fails to follow the teachings laid down in Dt 15: 7-11, Mt 25: 31-46 and Jas 2: 14-17. Perhaps if such people will not follow the teachings of the Papacy, they will at least follow the commandments of God and the teachings of Our Lord!

By the way, there is a better, Catholic way in business - Mondragon!! It’s catching on in North America and other parts as well.

What does what other people–sinful people, people with a fallen nature, people with a simplistic or ideological view have to do with whether or not you should become catholic? You find the people you describe in any religion and among the non religious. The reason to become catholic is because it is the Church Christ founded and guides through time to the fullness of truth–regardless of the behavior of some of its members. There is no other reason to belong to the Church. Do you really want to meet Christ and have him ask “Why didn’t you join my Church?” and your answer is “Because there were some people in it I didn’t like.”

The Peace of Christ,
Mark