Oh, I don’t mean to mislead you… I can walk to Mass from my house. We just choose to drive into Glasgow center for Mass. When I lived outside Cincinnati, I made a similar drive.
I drive 25 miles to work everyday…it’s not that bad a drive, especially on a Sunday morning when there is no traffic.
No, it does not “make me superior”. However, if I constantly posted confrontational questions the way that Eilish Maura does in this forum…well, that might make me INferior as a CAF. poster.And that makes you superior in what way? Careful now…
You also need to understand that when the Orthodox moved into Russian lands, their were allot of poor peasants as well. People starving in the dead of winter. But the Orthodox still maintained their elaborate churches, gold, beautiful vestments, etc. And the poor peasants did not complain. The Church was their home. The Church fed and took care of them and still had what was needed to maintain their traditions. And they were not worried about loosing the Slavic people. The Latin Americans, if they understand the traditions of the Roman Catholic Church, should not complain. These traditions were handed down for thousands of years, for everyone including them. And everything given to the church is through donations. Just like all the donations given to the poor and needy as well.You’re right. They had the Latin, but they also had the Tridentine mass with all of its elaborate and very rich structure.
While I was living there it was interesting to hear people comment on the gold and beautiful vestments that the priest wore in the old days and the fancy altar cloths while the common people didn’t have shoes or a good set of clothes to dress their kids for school. It got so bad that the governments had to give kids uniforms to attend public school. The still do this, because the average person can’t afford to dress their kids for school.
It’s not just the language, it’s an image that has to be overcome. Many Bishops lives in beautiful palacial homes that we take for granted. Monasteries were not simple buildings, but what we in the USA might call White Elephants.
The TLM was part of an infrastructure that did a great deal of harm to the image of the Church. It was not the TLM that did the harm, but those who were in power. Unfortunately, people make incorrect associations. You know what they say, perception can be everything.
I dearly love these people. They are good and simple people. I would hate to see the Church lose them again, just as they are feeling at home again. Does this make sense?
I would suggest that you read Cardinal Sean O’Malley’s blog. He works very closely to this community, has done so for more than 30 years. You may pick up some clues as to their spirituality from there. I worked with him many years ago when he was in Washington DC., after I came back from the missions.
JR
Amen brother.
So in your opinion would these people feel offended if they were to walk into a Byzantine Catholic Church with all the rich gold, and traditional worship. Does the Roman rite need to be different. What if they walked into a Coptic Church in Egypt, where Christians are a minority. How would they take that?. Would they get scared and become Buddhist. But the have rich traditions as well. Ornate vestments to. Sounds to me that they need to learn more about the church and it’s traditions, and not just scola scriptora.I certainly subscribe to being in the world and not of the world. Had we gotten it right when we first colonized the Americas, we would not be having this discussion now.
What you’re saying it right on target. I think Mother Teresa would definitely agree with you. We have to feed the hungry and give those who need a home a place to call their own, either here or in their own country. We need to do this as a faith community to remove the old image that they have of the Church and replace it with a true image of a compassionate and redemptive Church. As we do these things, we can also invite these folks to explore other forms of worship, without being authoritatian.
We must remember that for those who have come to the USA, legally or not, this is their first taste of freedom. We don’t want then to feel that the traditionalist movement in the Church is threatening to take that away. Therefore, it must be by charity, corporal works of mercy and by invitation. It’s a slow process, but not an impossible one.
As long as they have the NO available, so that it’s always a choice, the process will go more smoothly, because it diminishes the possibility of perceiving traditionalism as authoritarianism. That’s what we want to avoid.
We want to preserve tradition, correct mistakes and abuses, but avoid authoritarianism. The world has enough dictators and oppressors.
Liturgy and faith are about liberation from ever form of slavery, because all forms of slavery are forms of sin.
JR
I think it’s as simple as explaining to folks that such is not for the glorification of man, but of God…as explained in Sacred Scripture:
You know the way things are going in Europe right now they will need missionaries their as well. And in vast numbers to. Look at France and Spain!. Very devout Catholics right. And Scandinavia, how Christian or Catholic are they. Are we sending missionaries to these countries. Or are we to intimidated by their governments?.I just want to add one thing here from my personal experience. I spent seven years as a missionary in Latin America and three more as a university dean.
Hispanics are very protective of their heritage and their language. Though most of them really admire and love the United States, they have been abused so much, first by Spain and later by their own leaders, that they have developed a culture of suspicion.
If you take away the Spanish language mass and replace it with the TLM, the parish runs the risk of losing these people, because it can be misunderstood as discrimination. They will wonder why take away the ONE Spanish language mass and leave three English language masses.
In addition, unfortunately, whether we like it or not, their history with the Catholic Church is very different from our own. They were colonized by Catholics. If you visit any city you will find beautiful cathedrals and basilicas built along Spanish and Moorish architecture. Some are spectacular, but they are empty on Sunday.
The smaller and simpler churches draw the large crowds. There is a historical reason. These spectacular churches were built by the crown or with the support of the very wealthy. But it was the very wealthy who stole from the working classes and have oppressed them to this day.
It is only natural that people make associations, even if they are incorrect ones. Most Hispanics see the very elaborate churches and the pomp and circumstance as a sign of wealth and power. This frightens them. This is one of the attractions that the Protestant churches present to them, the simplicity.
To keep these people within the Catholic Church we must make careful and prudent pastoral decisions that take into consideration their culture and their experience. If they can feel the presence of Christ in the simplicity of the NO in their language, why rock the boat? I don’t believe this is what the Motu Propio intends.
Observe that John Paul II brought back many Latin American Catholics to the Church with his simplicity and his openness to their style of reverence and adoration. He put more than two decades of work to bring Latin America back. It was falling into the hands of the Protestants and of the Marxist Liberation Theologians.
I don’t believe that Benedict would want to undo all those years of work.
So taking away a Spanish language mass when you have three or four English language masses to choose from, would not be such a practical idea. It would create suspicion where no harm is meant; but that’s human nature.
I hope this makes sense.
JR
AMEN TO THAT!!.
But in the case of Latin America, the money was taken from the poor and given to the Church. Neither the Church nor the rich did anything for the poor. This has taken a very long time to change and is still changing, very very slowly.
This was not the case in the Spansih colonies. This is not the way the Spanish operated.AMEN TO THAT!!.
I am sure I could walk into an Anglican Church and find a most beautiful liturgy, performed in a magnificent manner.
True, I believe that St. Juan Diego had to walk 15 miles everyday for Mass.
Good point, however I might add, the Christians who are devout in Europe, are very devout. They have many TLM services from what I can see.
I’m interested in knowing which country or countries specifically you were a missionary in, if you don’t mind sharing it with us.You’re right. They had the Latin, but they also had the Tridentine mass with all of its elaborate and very rich structure.
While I was living there it was interesting to hear people comment on the gold and beautiful vestments that the priest wore in the old days and the fancy altar cloths while the common people didn’t have shoes or a good set of clothes to dress their kids for school. It got so bad that the governments had to give kids uniforms to attend public school. The still do this, because the average person can’t afford to dress their kids for school.
It’s not just the language, it’s an image that has to be overcome. Many Bishops lives in beautiful palacial homes that we take for granted. Monasteries were not simple buildings, but what we in the USA might call White Elephants.
The TLM was part of an infrastructure that did a great deal of harm to the image of the Church. It was not the TLM that did the harm, but those who were in power. Unfortunately, people make incorrect associations. You know what they say, perception can be everything.
I dearly love these people. They are good and simple people. I would hate to see the Church lose them again, just as they are feeling at home again. Does this make sense?
I would suggest that you read Cardinal Sean O’Malley’s blog. He works very closely to this community, has done so for more than 30 years. You may pick up some clues as to their spirituality from there. I worked with him many years ago when he was in Washington DC., after I came back from the missions.
JR