Disturbing Night At Youth Mass! Please Read

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I have decided to contact the head priest of that church I want to meet with him to discuss this, but it may have to be over the phone. Quick question is changing the profession of faith stirctly prohibited?
Was it the sung version that goes something like this-
Do you believe in God the father, Almighty, Creator of Heaven and all the earth, Amen ,Amen we do Believe.

Do you believe in Jesus Christ , His only son our Lord, who was born of Mary , was crucified and died and buried.
yet he rose from the dead and is seated at the right hand of the Father, Amen Amen we do Believe?

There are more verses. This may have been approved by the Vatican for use at Life Teen several years ago. They use that one here.

Here’s a version of it-

spiritandsong.com/musicondemand/songs/16160

Honestly , this is the least disturbing thing about the youth Mass.Might want to let this one go.
 
I am so sorry to hear about your experience. It is really a shame that some parishes let abuses take away from the purpose of youth masses. It’s not like that everywhere. We have Life Teen here in our parish and it’s the most spirit filled Mass we have (IMHO).

The music is loud but it is all very Chrisitian music and upbeat before Mass, this is called the “Praise and Worship” portion. We have a live band that plays (they have even recorded a CD) and the girls in the band are very reverent and Catholic and they have angelic voices. The kids are loud and friendly but no one is sitting ON the pews. There are many adults there as well. The reason all these people go to this Mass, I believe, is because of the young people.

My parish is probably not like many others. It is a very friendly and welcoming parish. Before Mass, many are talking and visiting (which, I believe should really be done after Mass) but it is the custom here and I don’t find it distrubing at all. It is what draws people into our parish.

I find myself in tears at each and every Life Teen Mass and alot of it has to do with the music and the teens. I see these young people so in love with their faith, yet they are like most other teens - but these have something a little special - it’s the Holy Spirit and He comes through loud and clear at this Mass in particular!
First of all, music inside church should not be as loud as a rock concert. This was one of the concerns that the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments cited. Second, why not have this “praise and worship” fest go in in the parish hall and then encourage the kids to go into church in silence. If you want to socialize, meet and greet, do it in the parish hall before Mass. But, once you are in church, you need to show the proper reverence and respect for God’s house and, most especially, the Blessed Sacrament.

The community aspect should never be the chief draw into the parish: it should be the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. I’m not downplaying the community aspect, but, when you make it more important than the Holy Sacrifice, you are really missing the boat.

What the OP described was reprehensible and deplorable. It was totally inappropriate for the Mass. Just where did these young people think they were? The food court at the local mall? The whole thing that the OP described reminded me of Jesus entering the Temple while the money changers were defiling the Court of the Gentiles. So the kids werent’ engaging in commerce, but, their behavior was disrepectful.

This, however, is not necessarily the kids’ fault. The sponsors should have taken better control of the situation and should have instilled respect and appropriate behavior inside the Church. The problem is that we’ve become so engrossed in creating community and making these things about fellowship that we have forgotten our Lord and the Holy Sacrifice.

We are so busy following the alleged “spirit” of the Second Vatican Council while totally ignoring what the documents actually say and following them.
 
Was it the sung version that goes something like this-
Do you believe in God the father, Almighty, Creator of Heaven and all the earth, Amen ,Amen we do Believe.

Do you believe in Jesus Christ , His only son our Lord, who was born of Mary , was crucified and died and buried.
yet he rose from the dead and is seated at the right hand of the Father, Amen Amen we do Believe?

There are more verses. This may have been approved by the Vatican for use at Life Teen several years ago. They use that one here.

Here’s a version of it-

spiritandsong.com/musicondemand/songs/16160

Honestly , this is the least disturbing thing about the youth Mass.Might want to let this one go.
It’s not that I don’t trust your word, but, as St. Paul says, “test all things.” Spirit and Song is not the best resource, even though this is the hymnal that LifeTeen uses.

There are some very serious problems with OCP when it comes to the service section of the hymnal. OCP takes excessive liberties with the parts of the Mass and adds and subtracts things when it’s not authorized to do so. Furthermore, I leafed through Spirit and Song and there appears to be no authoritative oversight, as in clergy or prelate, for that matter.

Just because something is found in OCP hymnals that doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s okay, let alone appropriate for use.
 
IWhen I attempted to pray I couldn’t even hear myself think and this started things badly. The sanctuary was louder and people were talking more than I have ever seen at a church it was very distracting. Most of the people there were teenagers. I noticed they were high fiving each other and even sitting on top of the pews while talking.

Sorry you had such a bad experience. However, noise before mass is not limited to youth masses. At my parish the people are very friendly and welcoming, so there is usually a buzz before mass due to people going in early. We then have silence right before mass.

I couldn’t believe the lack of reverence in the presence of the eucharist.

Are you certain the tabernacle was in the main church? At my parish we have a large chapel with the tabernacle, so silence is preserved there at all times for prayer including before/after mass. A visitor who came into the main church from our largest parking lot would not see a sanctuary light if they looked around the main church, but if they didn’t realize they might just think that people were not genuflecting, etc because of irreverence for the Eucharist. Not an excuse for behaving poorly in church but it is not quite as bad if the tabernacle is not present.

The one thing that I love about the church since I have joined is the sameness of it. No matter where I go I get the same thing.
The only thing that I’ve seen that is the same from parish to parish is the readings. Every single one that I’ve been to has a different feel before, during and after mass. The music and its quality will vary from parish to parish. The homilies will vary also.

There seems to be some valid reasons for being upset at this particular mass, but in general I would caution against getting so emotional in the future that you leave any mass not to your liking. The people sound like they were behaving very badly when you arrived, but at least they stayed for mass. Next time it might be screaming children, dozens of cell phones inging or something else that makes it impossible to concentrate to your liking, but it is about worshiping God in community (not just within our comfort zone).

I just focus on Jesus and offer up anything disturbing during mass because leaving mass merely because I’m annoyed or uncomfortable is not an option for me. If there is something that I believe really needs improvement for a valid reason, then I can always write a letter the following week or visit the parish office.
 
Who is to say what is reverent or not? Do you think God really cares if we wear jeans in Church? You are jaded by tradition. There are so many bad influences in this world and some people are complaining that young people are going to church and enjoying praising God. Maybe they should be at parties and doing drugs and having sex and living to this generation’s deteriorating standards. I am not here criticizing how people worship and want to help people find their own personal relationship with Christ. The mission of the Youth Mass is to include youth and their families in a celebration of the Eucharist, which reflects the energy and zeal of young adulthood, while emphasizing the sanctity and miracle of the Mass. The mission of the Youth Mass is far from irreverent. I am not going to be guided by your close mindedness. If you think we are trying to change the Catholic Church, you are wrong! 👍
 
Who is to say what is reverent or not?
Church and common sense.
Do you think God really cares if we wear jeans in Church?
Jeans are not in and of themselves irreverent, but in the context of that poster’s descripition it forms a part of a valid cumulative argument. Now if a parish or bishop were to rule no jeans in church, we would be obligated to obey because even if God does not care about what we wear, he very much cares about obeying legitimate authorities giving legitimate instruction.
You are jaded by tradition.
Easy with uncharitable assertions you can’t prove.
There are so many bad influences in this world and some people are complaining that young people are going to church and enjoying praising God. Maybe they should be at parties and doing drugs and having sex and living to this generation’s deteriorating standards.
This is a false dilemma. You can’t be seriously contending that the choices that the kids are allowed to do anything in Church OR we have to let them go do drugs at parties.
I am not here criticizing how people worship and want to help people find their own personal relationship with Christ.
Already here is the problem. “Personal relationship with Christ” is not biblical language but is rather a buzz-phrase inspired by therapeutic/psycholoanalytic culture. The problem with appealing to subjectivism is that one blinds himself to the bad thinking that objectively infiltrates proper worship. Anyone can recognize a person with no respect for the sacred as some of these descriptions attest to and it is wildly obscuring reality to suggest that perhaps he is worshipping in his own way.
The mission of the Youth Mass is to include youth and their families in a celebration of the Eucharist, which reflects the energy and zeal of young adulthood, while emphasizing the sanctity and miracle of the Mass. The mission of the Youth Mass is far from irreverent. I am not going to be guided by your close mindedness. If you think we are trying to change the Catholic Church, you are wrong! 👍
I don’t think it’s their intention to change the Church, but we all know where good intentions can lead. This is pandering to youth by appropriating the pop-junk found in secular culture. The result is reducing the Faith to just another disposable commodity, making it trivial.
 
Well, I’m content to let the readers decide who has made a case. I don’t believe I’m being a jerk, and I don’t have a problem with youth events in genral, but when it is time for the Sacrifice of the Mass, it can’t be a free-for-all lab for experimentation and importing the latest pop-culture junk in order to make it more youth accesible ( I think teens see right through the ploy anyway). Everything has it’s time and place. I’ve seen adults correct youth who where getting too out of hand or inappropriately cavalier in sacred space. Most accept the correction and take the point because they are good kids, are smart, and recognize the time-and-place norms. They will respond to high standards of behavior if you expect it and lead.
 
Well, I’m content to let the readers decide who has made a case. I don’t believe I’m being a jerk, and I don’t have a problem with youth events in genral, but when it is time for the Sacrifice of the Mass, it can’t be a free-for-all lab for experimentation and importing the latest pop-culture junk in order to make it more youth accesible ( I think teens see right through the ploy anyway). Everything has it’s time and place. I’ve seen adults correct youth who where getting too out of hand or inappropriately cavalier in sacred space. Most accept the correction and take the point because they are good kids, are smart, and recognize the time-and-place norms. They will respond to high standards of behavior if you expect it and lead.
👍
Maybe some should go back and read the OP: people sitting on the backs of pews, etc. :eek: Some young people need serious catechesis on reverence, the Real Presence, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, etc., etc. Funny that we didn’t need these irreverent things decades ago. Compare Mass attendance then and now.

Gregory, you were absolutely justified in being distressed. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise!
 
👍
Maybe some should go back and read the OP: people sitting on the backs of pews, etc. :eek: Some young people need serious catechesis on reverence, the Real Presence, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, etc., etc. Funny that we didn’t need these irreverent things decades ago. Compare Mass attendance then and now.

Gregory, you were absolutely justified in being distressed. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise!
You and Scottgun have consistently been on target. The huge problem is that perhaps no one, not the youth team leaders or the responsible adults who are supposed to be in charge, has perhaps educated these young people on the proper decorum and disciplined behavior inside Church. Sitting on the backs of pews as if you were in the food court of your local mall is not proper behavior when you are inside the house of God. When I was there age, it never occurred to me or my peers to engage in that kind of behavior. Nor did we need the Mass brought down to our level. Rather, we needed to raise ourselves to a higher level and form a deeper understanding of the salvific mysteries that were unfolding before us in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.
 
I just don’t have time for this trivial nonsense. We all love Jesus and we are all of the same faith. God loves everybody.
 
I just don’t have time for this trivial nonsense. We all love Jesus and we are all of the same faith. God loves everybody.
Eric, let’s take a step back and examine this whole thing. Do you think that it is trivial to sit on the back of a pew as though you were sitting at the snack bar of your mall’s food court? Let’s say that you have friends over. You’ve got some nice furniture, including a lovely sofa that your grandma left you and your mom takes really good care of it. Supposing one of your best buddies decides to sit on the sofa in an inappropriate way and your mom walks into the room. Not a really smart thing to do, right?

The church is God’s house. Remember, Jesus chastized the money changers and the vendors for the way they were behaving in the Temple, in His Father’s house (which, of course, was Jesus’ house, too). Now, the kids weren’t buying and selling stuff, but the concept is still the same.

Recall, too, that the first commandment is to love God. Loving God means offering him the worship and adoration that is properly due Him. This worship is the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. The Church has her norms, rubrics, rites and texts. We can’t deviate from them. We don’t have the authority to change any part of the Mass. Regardless of what some people may say, this is not some trivial matter.

Eric, I don’t know what your background is. However, I would suggest that before anything else, you should get hold of Pope Benedict’s books on the liturgy, especially Spirit of the Liturgy and A New Song for the Lord. This should put things into perspective for you.
 
Who is to say what is reverent or not? Do you think God really cares if we wear jeans in Church?
Let me guess - the following scripture has no bearing whatsoever on the question, right?

*[8] Then he said to his servants, The wedding is ready, but those invited were not worthy. [9] Go therefore to the thoroughfares, and invite to the marriage feast as many as you find.' [10] And those servants went out into the streets and gathered all whom they found, both bad and good; so the wedding hall was filled with guests. [11] "But when the king came in to look at the guests, he saw there a man who had no wedding garment; [12] and he said to him, Friend, how did you get in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless.
[13] Then the king said to the attendants, `Bind him hand and foot, and cast him into the outer darkness; there men will weep and gnash their teeth.’
*
 
Here is my dilema, and this is my last post so don’t worry about replying. I do not understand why we are all here bickering back and forth about having young people in church. I have decided that whatever this is, it is a waste of time, and this place to fight back and forth about the same religion is not going get any of us to heaven. Did the apostles argue like this? Do you think perhaps they had different ideas and opinions? I think that after any of you read this, you should step back and look at yourself and ask if God has something bigger planned for you. Obviously you are all very passionate about what you believe. Take that passion and Go Make a Difference. Not here in cyber world, but in His world. I apologize for getting every one riled up, it was not my intention. Also, I am not going to stop trying to bring young people back to church, even if they are wearing jeans. If they are in His house, they are safe from the evils of the world, and it only takes a moment for a heart to change and to seek God on a deeper level.
 
Here is my dilema, and this is my last post so don’t worry about replying.
Since I think it is an important issue and that interacting with a view, even one I wildly disagree with, can be profitable, I will reply.
I do not understand why we are all here bickering back and forth about having young people in church.
Bickering is simply worthless back-and-forth, “Yes it is!” “No it isn’t!” “I know you are but what am I?” I agree. It’s not worthy of anybody’s time. Interacting with ideas, (refuting them, refining them) is not bickering.
I have decided that whatever this is, it is a waste of time, and this place to fight back and forth about the same religion is not going get any of us to heaven.
Only Christ gets us into Heaven, But I believe we are doing the work that Christ’s love obligates to do when we defend the Faith and obey the Church on liturgical norms.
Did the apostles argue like this? Do you think perhaps they had different ideas and opinions?
I’m sure they argued reasonably, they prayed for discernment and came to the right answer which everyone submitted to. I don’t think they ever offered a whatever-floats-your-boat mentality.
I think that after any of you read this, you should step back and look at yourself and ask if God has something bigger planned for you. Obviously you are all very passionate about what you believe. Take that passion and Go Make a Difference. Not here in cyber world, but in His world.
I don’t think there is the dilemma you are suggesting. That defending norms of behavior in sacred space is something unworthy and that this takes away from nuns working in Calcutta or something. Our behavior in church objectively says what we think about Our Lord. If our behavior is no different than our behavior at the mall food-court, it says we don’t think much of Him at all. I think that is essentially important because such things dillute the Faith to nothing.
I apologize for getting every one riled up, it was not my intention.
I don’t recall getting riled up, but thanks for your concern.
Also, I am not going to stop trying to bring young people back to church, even if they are wearing jeans.
Good for you, but I should point out that it ain’t the jeans that are the heart of the objection as I’ve said before.
If they are in His house, they are safe from the evils of the world, and it only takes a moment for a heart to change and to seek God on a deeper level.
I agree, but I need to revisit the comparison to a mall food-court. Consumer culture has an amazing ability to subvert everything around it. It’s like the Borg–it assimilates everything. And if we bring the food-court into the sancturary, people will no longer be able to recognize the presence of the sacred.

God bless.
 
I just don’t have time for this trivial nonsense. We all love Jesus and we are all of the same faith. God loves everybody.
You seem to think that yours is the first generation to do this ‘for youth’ thing. It isn’t.

Mine was the youth generation immediately post Vat. II. We lived through the age of the ‘Folk Mass’, also meant to involve the youth and keep us in Church. While we were more respectful of the sacred space than the teens I read about in the OP, it was no less about ‘us’, and yes it involved abuses. Did it keep us in the Church? Not really. But those who stayed are the ones who then perpetuated the abuses because we didn’t know any better and nobody took the trouble to tell us.

When we find out, we’d like to make things better and learn from our mistakes and hope to prevent the same mistakes being made by the present generation.
 
I am so sorry to hear about your experience. It is really a shame that some parishes let abuses take away from the purpose of youth masses. It’s not like that everywhere. We have Life Teen here in our parish and it’s the most spirit filled Mass we have (IMHO).
I am also very sorry to hear about your experience. I must agree with the above quote however. Not all youth-focused Masses are this way. Our parish has a Life Teen Youth Focused Mass, and it is beautiful! It’s more families than simply teens attending alone. To me, that is what makes the difference. We make it a priority to include the whole family at this Mass. The music is youth oriented, but we also have no problem throwing in an Ave Maria! 🙂 Exposing the students to music that is more familiar to them, while still maintaining the sanctity and reverence of Mass as well as incorporating music that represents the long-standing Catholic Culture is vital to allowing the music in Mass to serve it’s primary purpose: to aid in bringing the individuals in the congregation into prayer and lead them closer to Chrsit, especially in the Eucharistic Feast!

We do not change the creed, and although I do not have doctrine to source that specifically denounces that, I truly feel that replacing or changing it is inappropriate (I’m sure there are sources however, that speak of this particularly). I’ve heard of it being changed for very young (3rd grade or less) groups of children while parents aren’t necessarily with them (i.e. Vacation Bible School, Faith Formation Classes, etc.), however, as a full-time youth ministry coordinator, I can tell you that I feel this is not only cheating the students, but also the parents. If the child/teen hears something in the Creed that they do not entirely understand, it’s a great opportunity for the parents to do one of the most important jobs they have: to serve their children as the primary catechist and teacher of the faith. It’s important we stress to students that it’s okay to have questions and to parents to make sure they ask their children if they have questions, even if they don’t know the answer. It’s important for children to see that parents have something to learn too, so even if they don’t know the answer on the spot, it’s vital that the parents follow up with an educated and informed response, asking others for help finding the right sources, if necessary.

I guess the reason I wanted to post in response to your this topic is that I hope it doesn’t turn you away from the idea of a Liturgy that may be a bit different than what you were initially exposed to. Although the culture, tradition, and reverence of the Mass, Eucharist, and the entire Catholic Church and it’s teachings should ABSOLUTELY be maintained at each Mass (and within each parish as a whole), you can absolutely do that while still taking into account the audience (in this case, young people). Blessed John Paul II called this “inculturation.” This is essentially stating that although the framework of the Mass needs to remain in tact, music can be adjusted to the culture. Without a doubt, every single generation of youth has it’s own culutre! In each parish, people naturally flock to different Masses (for example, you might see more elderly people at the Saturday evening Mass or at 6:30 or 7am on Sunday similarly as more teens and young adults attend Sunday evening Mass), and although, of course, not every memeber of the congregation fits into the “norm” for the Mass, you can’t ignore that there is generally a majority maintained. Just as the Saturday evening Mass might only have an organ and one voice to sing (which helps lead the majority into deeper prayer, in hopes of not neglecting the minority!), the youth Mass should have a liturgically appropriate vibrancy as well, just like the vibrancy that the youth attending have (again, which helps lead the majority into deeper prayer, while still not entirely neglecting the minority). We also cannot cheat them out of the faith, so it’s necessary not to go over-the-top, which your parish has clearly done. The concept of inculturation, although initially aimed to address the difference between say a Western Parish and an African Parish teaches us a lot. I believe the late Pope intended this to address the difference between a Parish in South-Central LA and a parish in Iowa as well…they’re just different! And as necessary and beautiful as it is to see the continuity and “sameness” as you put it in the Catholic Church, to reject any and all differences in the Mass is not only impossible, it is not of the greatest service to the individuals that the Pastor and Ministers and trying to lead into prayer and Sacramental fulfillment.

I will be praying for your parish and your pastor!

May the peace of Christ Jesus be with you always!

Joyously in Jesus,

Emily
 
I guess the reason I wanted to post in response to your this topic is that I hope it doesn’t turn you away from the idea of a Liturgy that may be a bit different than what you were initially exposed to. Although the culture, tradition, and reverence of the Mass, Eucharist, and the entire Catholic Church and it’s teachings should ABSOLUTELY be maintained at each Mass (and within each parish as a whole), you can absolutely do that while still taking into account the audience (in this case, young people). Blessed John Paul II called this “inculturation.” This is essentially stating that although the framework of the Mass needs to remain in tact, music can be adjusted to the culture. Without a doubt, every single generation of youth has it’s own culutre! We also cannot cheat them out of the faith, so it’s necessary not to go over-the-top, which your parish has clearly done. The concept of inculturation, although initially aimed to address the difference between say a Western Parish and an African Parish teaches us a lot. I believe the late Pope intended this to address the difference between a Parish in South-Central LA and a parish in Iowa as well…they’re just different! And as necessary and beautiful as it is to see the continuity and “sameness” as you put it in the Catholic Church, to reject any and all differences in the Mass is not only impossible, it is not of the greatest service to the individuals that the Pastor and Ministers and trying to lead into prayer and Sacramental fulfillment.
There is a huge problem with the word “inculturation”. The term, as used by the Holy See, is meant to deal with indigenous cultures in missionary lands, not with groups like “youth”. Even Blessed John Paul II clarified this in a document he wrote called the Chirograph on Sacred Music. This is what he wrote:
  1. In continuity with the teachings of St Pius X and the Second Vatican Council, it is necessary first of all to emphasize that music destined for sacred rites must have holiness as its reference point: indeed, “sacred music increases in holiness to the degree that it is intimately linked with liturgical action**”[11]. For this very reason, “not all without distinction that is outside the temple (profanum) is fit to cross its threshold”, my venerable Predecessor Paul VI wisely said, commenting on a Decree of the Council of Trent[12]. And he explained that “if music - instrumental and vocal - does not possess at the same time the sense of prayer, dignity and beauty, it precludes the entry into the sphere of the sacred and the religious”[13]. Today, moreover, the meaning of the category “sacred music” has been broadened to include repertoires that cannot be part of the celebration without violating the spirit and norms of the Liturgy itself.**
St Pius X’s reform aimed specifically at purifying Church music from the contamination of profane theatrical music that in many countries had polluted the repertoire and musical praxis of the Liturgy. In our day too, careful thought, as I emphasized in the Encyclical Ecclesia de Eucharistia, should be given to the fact that not all the expressions of figurative art or of music are able “to express adequately the mystery grasped in the fullness of the Church’s faith”[14]. Consequently, not all forms of music can be considered suitable for liturgical celebrations.
5. Another principle, affirmed by St Pius X in the Motu Proprio Tra le Sollecitudini and which is closely connected with the previous one, is that of sound form. There can be no music composed for the celebration of sacred rites which is not first of all “true art” or which does not have that efficacy “which the Church aims at obtaining in admitting into her Liturgy the art of musical sounds”[15].
Yet this quality alone does not suffice. Indeed, liturgical music must meet the specific prerequisites of the Liturgy: full adherence to the text it presents, synchronization with the time and moment in the Liturgy for which it is intended, appropriately reflecting the gestures proposed by the rite. The various moments in the Liturgy require a musical expression of their own. From time to time this must fittingly bring out the nature proper to a specific rite, now proclaiming God’s marvels, now expressing praise, supplication or even sorrow for the experience of human suffering which, however, faith opens to the prospect of Christian hope.
6**. The music and song requested by the liturgical reform - it is right to stress this point - must comply with the legitimate demands of adaptation and inculturation. It is clear, however, that any innovation in this sensitive matter must respect specific criteria such as the search for musical expressions which respond to the necessary involvement of the entire assembly in the celebration and which, at the same time, avoid any concessions to frivolity or superficiality. Likewise, on the whole, those elitist forms of “inculturation” which introduce into the Liturgy ancient or contemporary compositions of possible artistic value, but that indulge in a language that is incomprehensible to the majority, should be avoided**.
We do not have the authority to cobble up the Mass and do with it as we please. The fact that the Fathers of the 2005 Synod on the Eucharist saw what was happening at Youth Masses as problematic, especially insofar as the music is concerned.
 
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