Disturbing trend among Evangelical friends

[PrayHarder]

He thinks that government shouldn’t tell people what to do.

Sorry about responding to this single sentence, but modern liberalism is all about the government telling people what to do. It’s all about setting up rules and regulations to try to achieve this idea of equal outcomes for everyone. It’s about socializing and spreading out responsibility so that decisions and consequences aren’t left up to the individual. And the only way to enforce that is through the power of the state.

But more to your friend’s position. He says the government shouldn’t tell people what to do in cases like abortion. But he doesn’t have issues with the government telling people that they must support abortion with their tax dollars regardless of how they feel about the morality of it? Because that’s exactly where Obamacare is headed. And what about the government telling people they must cover the cost of contraception? What about government telling the tax payers they have to cover the costs of free phones for people? What about government telling people they have to cover the cost of stimulus bills? Seems to me like the government is doing an aweful lot of telling people what to do.

 

[cajunhillbilly]

Yea. This is a very tough subject. Our government is SEPERATED from any religion and that is one of the founding ideas of this country. And while we should hold fast to what our Lord teached, the government CANNOT impose that on anyone. In my opinion, for christians to get there way on these topics we have to change our argument to one that doesn’t speak directly of God but one that indirectly does so we can achieve His will. But you’re right, **evangelicals are becoming more and more liberal in there politics./**QUOTE]

Not in my church

 

[exnihilo]

He said that while he personally thinks gay marriage is wrong and that abortion is wrong, He thinks that government shouldn’t tell people what to do. He says that only God can judge what is wrong and right and that if a government were to outlaw gay marriage or abortion it would be a “return to Christendom” like in the middle ages when the church was entwined with the state and that it would lead to a hardening of hearts and that less people would be open to the Gospel message.

All government can do is tell people what to do. Which is why I find it insulting when a presidential candidate ran an add where he says his plan is to ‘ask the rich to pay a little bit more’. Yeah, the government ‘asks’. And if you don’t do what it ‘asks’ it brings guys with guns to force you. And if you do not submit they will lock you up in prison or kill you.

A person voting is attempting to impose their personal beliefs on everyone else. If your belief is abortion is murder (which happens to be true) then you attempt to impose that on others through the criminalization. If your belief is abortion is not murder then you attempt to impose that belief on society by allowing murder to go unpunished. Either way you are forcing your personal beliefs on people.

This friend seems to suffer from a misunderstanding that is actually widespread. Every government adopts some sort of moral philosophy. Whether you think of this as being religious in nature or not makes no difference. Behind the state is moral principles out of which comes its laws. The idea of religious liberty has never included doing anything you want. If your religion says you have human sacrifice no one would say that is a freedom you have. They would say that the religion and freedom are still bound by the moral code.

So the question is what is the moral code? If you are an atheist you dont have a good answer. If you are a Christian it is inescapably Christian. The question of what is moral is different from what the legal penalty should be for a violation. Some moral violations, like disrespecting your parents, should not be enforced by the state in large part because the family society should enforce this. But issues like murder are clearly one of the responsiibilities of the state.

It is also important to realize religious liberty, as conceived by early Americans, was merely the right to worship as you saw fit but within the context of a state that embraced the morality of Christianity. The government was essentially free to promote the Christian faith. The idea of radical seperation of the state from religion is a modern one and certainly not part of the American tradition.

Is this a new trend among young evangelicals? I used to think they were mostly very conservative, but now i’m worried. So many that are my age are either apolitical (don’t vote or don’t really care) or they do the whole “i’m personally against it and the church should be” but government shouldn’t." or that “Gods laws shouldn’t have to deal with our laws” I find this attitude kind of sad.

I think there are still plenty of conservative evangelicals. Unfortunately many are wedded to the perceived conservative party and this is also problematic. They seem to ignore the immorality and injustice their party promotes.

 

[Contarini]

Okay, so during election season, one of my friends who is a non denominational evangelical christian came out in support of obama. On election night he clarified his position when asked, and he said that while he personally thinks gay marriage is wrong and that abortion is wrong, He thinks that government shouldn’t tell people what to do. He says that only God can judge what is wrong and right and that if a government were to outlaw gay marriage or abortion it would be a “return to Christendom” like in the middle ages when the church was entwined with the state and that it would lead to a hardening of hearts and that less people would be open to the Gospel message.

Is this a new trend among young evangelicals? I used to think they were mostly very conservative, but now i’m worried. So many that are my age are either apolitical (don’t vote or don’t really care) or they do the whole “i’m personally against it and the church should be” but government shouldn’t." or that “Gods laws shouldn’t have to deal with our laws” I find this attitude kind of sad.

Yes, it’s a growing trend among evangelicals my age and younger (I’m 38). I see it a lot among my students. It’s a reaction to the boorish politics of the Christian Right. Mourdock and Akin have become the poster boys for what young evangelicals don’t want to be. (Yes, the media blew up and distorted what they said in significant ways, I know.)

It’s an uphill battle to try to suggest to them that abortion really is a serious moral issue and not just some kind of right-wing fundamentalist obsession, and that one can respect the human dignity of gay people without changing the definition of marriage. (To me the former is much, much more important than the latter, which from my perspective is mostly a question of misleading terminology.)

 

[Dave_Noonan]

Okay, so during election season, one of my friends who is a non denominational evangelical christian came out in support of obama. On election night he clarified his position when asked, and he said that while he personally thinks gay marriage is wrong and that abortion is wrong, He thinks that government shouldn’t tell people what to do. He says that only God can judge what is wrong and right and that if a government were to outlaw gay marriage or abortion it would be a “return to Christendom” like in the middle ages when the church was entwined with the state and that it would lead to a hardening of hearts and that less people would be open to the Gospel message.

Is this a new trend among young evangelicals? I used to think they were mostly very conservative, but now i’m worried. So many that are my age are either apolitical (don’t vote or don’t really care) or they do the whole “i’m personally against it and the church should be” but government shouldn’t." or that “Gods laws shouldn’t have to deal with our laws” I find this attitude kind of sad.

This is more or less the simple Libertarian view, e.g., “If you don’t like abortion, don’t have one”–from a popular Libertarian bumper sticker I see often. They don’t believe the government has the right to ever be involved or interfere in what they deem to be personal matters (i.e., the “below the waist” issues.)

The closest we have for politicians representing this view are the Ron/Rand Paul types, who garner most of their true believers from among the young. Is it a growing trend? I would say yes.

 

[Aslan10]

From my own experience the evangelical church that i used to attend was full of young, artsy type people. Don’t misunderstand me, there is nothing wrong with being artsy and I know this is stereotypical, but many artsy people tend to lean to the left. I think its almost “trendy” and “cool” for many of them.

Just to be clear, I’m not saying all artsy people are liberal. Or that being artsy is wrong. Its just a trend i see. I dont want anyone taking what I’ve said wrongly. haha.

 

[PrayHarder]

From my own experience the evangelical church that i used to attend was full of young, artsy type people. Don’t misunderstand me, there is nothing wrong with being artsy and I know this is stereotypical, but many artsy people tend to lean to the left. I think its almost “trendy” and “cool” for many of them.

Just to be clear, I’m not saying all artsy people are liberal. Or that being artsy is wrong. Its just a trend i see. I dont want anyone taking what I’ve said wrongly. haha.

I love how people on CAF have to qualify every remark with paragraphs of disclaimers. I think I may just put a 5000-word legal disclaimer in my signature to save time.

 

[JustaServant]

Okay, so during election season, one of my friends who is a non denominational evangelical christian came out in support of obama. On election night he clarified his position when asked, and he said that while he personally thinks gay marriage is wrong and that abortion is wrong, He thinks that government shouldn’t tell people what to do. He says that only God can judge what is wrong and right and that if a government were to outlaw gay marriage or abortion it would be a “return to Christendom” like in the middle ages when the church was entwined with the state and that it would lead to a hardening of hearts and that less people would be open to the Gospel message.

Is this a new trend among young evangelicals? I used to think they were mostly very conservative, but now i’m worried. So many that are my age are either apolitical (don’t vote or don’t really care) or they do the whole “i’m personally against it and the church should be” but government shouldn’t." or that “Gods laws shouldn’t have to deal with our laws” I find this attitude kind of sad.

These people obviously have no clue as to either Christianity or history.

 

[AbideWithMe]

From my own experience the evangelical church that i used to attend was full of young, artsy type people. Don’t misunderstand me, there is nothing wrong with being artsy and I know this is stereotypical, but many artsy people tend to lean to the left. I think its almost “trendy” and “cool” for many of them.

Just to be clear, I’m not saying all artsy people are liberal. Or that being artsy is wrong. Its just a trend i see. I dont want anyone taking what I’ve said wrongly. haha.

I’m an fine artist, and yeah, I do sometimes feel awkward when my artist friends bring up politics. Most of them are quiet and easy-going, laissez-faire folks about most things, but they can be aggressively, in-your-face, left-leaning in bringing up political topics out of the blue.

 

[AbideWithMe]

Yes, it’s a growing trend among evangelicals my age and younger (I’m 38). I see it a lot among my students. It’s a reaction to the boorish politics of the Christian Right.

Yes.

I think Tony Campolo has been some influence, too, in this tendency. I like and respect Dr. Campolo ; I’ve grown up hearing him often and my brother had him as a professor. But I think sometimes young people lacking his general level-headedness and experience take things he says and carry them to erroneous conclusions.

 

[Aslan10]

I love how people on CAF have to qualify every remark with paragraphs of disclaimers. I think I may just put a 5000-word legal disclaimer in my signature to save time.

Id rather have disclaimers than people get the wrong idea. Things are easily misunderstood on the internet.