Disturbing truth or rumor? I'm hoping it's a rumor

[thomist]

Wow! Nice to see that we’re not alone out here on the left coast! But, for those who feel really down about the treatment of orthodox priests in their dioceses, what happens here is that they are given an ‘infra-diocesan’ (my word) banishment to either an outpost parish in the boondocks (maybe St. John Vianney is praying for those parishes, huh?), or to no parish at all - they are just unassigned. All this despite the priest shortage in our diocese. Also, in the last ten years only three ordinations to the priesthood from this diocese. Two are very shaky theologically, the other only so-so.

 

[Detroit_Sue]

thomist:

Wow! Nice to see that we’re not alone out here on the left coast! But, for those who feel really down about the treatment of orthodox priests in their dioceses, what happens here is that they are given an ‘infra-diocesan’ (my word) banishment to either an outpost parish in the boondocks (maybe St. John Vianney is praying for those parishes, huh?), or to no parish at all - they are just unassigned. All this despite the priest shortage in our diocese. Also, in the last ten years only three ordinations to the priesthood from this diocese. Two are very shaky theologically, the other only so-so.

The boondocks assignments are pretty much standard operating procedure here. Tragic. :nope:

 

[ktm]

lepanto:

As a prospective seminarian at Detroit’s Sacred Heart Major Seminary…I find this thread EXTREMELY important to me. This is not just a passing interest for me.

DetroitSue…any further info you can shed?

lepanto,

I very strongly urge you to read Goodbye, Good Men by Michael S. Rose. It discusses precisely the topic of this thread. As someone considering entering the seminary, you really REALLY need to read this book so that, by God’s grace, you can avoid applying to one of the liberal seminaries.

 

[Brendan]

Detroit Sue:

There is one monsignor in particular who is in charge of the assignment board, and he is making profoundly bad matches for the new priests and the parishes they are assigned to.

Sue,

I know the msgr. you’re talking about then. I must say though, I’ve been kinda of keen on some of his choices.

A nearby parish has been particularly ‘liberal’ and just got a new priest who I know is completely orthodox. While I’m sure the parishoners feel it’s a bad match, I can only see good coming from this decision.

My old parish had a slightly liberal priest, the pastor assigned before we left has been mostly othodox.

I know associate pastors have generally been moved between different types of parishes (inner city vs suburb vs rural; with school or without). That prepares them to take a pastorial position in any type of parish. That has been going on for quite a while.

I am also positive that there are some liberal clergy who are complaining about the priests Sacred Heart is producing. And I’m sure they got together and probably even ‘offically’ complained. But I really don’t believe it’s an Archdiocesan policy in anyway, the fact is Sacred Heart has been turning out good men.

 

[Detroit_Sue]

Brendan:

Sue,

I know the msgr. you’re talking about then. I must say though, I’ve been kinda of keen on some of his choices.

A nearby parish has been particularly ‘liberal’ and just got a new priest who I know is completely orthodox. While I’m sure the parishoners feel it’s a bad match, I can only see good coming from this decision.

My old parish had a slightly liberal priest, the pastor assigned before we left has been mostly othodox.

I know associate pastors have generally been moved between different types of parishes (inner city vs suburb vs rural; with school or without). That prepares them to take a pastorial position in any type of parish. That has been going on for quite a while.

I am also positive that there are some liberal clergy who are complaining about the priests Sacred Heart is producing. And I’m sure they got together and probably even ‘offically’ complained. But I really don’t believe it’s an Archdiocesan policy in anyway, the fact is Sacred Heart has been turning out good men.

Thanks for your perspective, Brendan. I also believe Sacred Heart is turning out good priests, but it’s still worrisome to me. I hope you are right about it not being a “policy.” The Cardinal has been known to not do anything when there is a problem in the parish.

On a happier note: Did you see the priest ordination on CTND? It was AWESOME

 

[Brendan]

Detroit Sue:

Thanks for your perspective, Brendan. I also believe Sacred Heart is turning out good priests, but it’s still worrisome to me. I hope you are right about it not being a “policy.” The Cardinal has been known to not do anything when there is a problem in the parish.

On a happier note: Did you see the priest ordination on CTND? It was AWESOME

No I didn’t see the ordination. I had been working on an out of town project for the last few months (home on weekends).

The reason I don’t see it likely that it’s an official policy is the fact that Sacred Heart is a pretty orthodox institution. That is something that is under +Maida’s control (or cares to control). He has appointed generally orthodox rectors and hired orthodox staff.

The real problem is the ‘old guard’ that objects to the new priests. I do agree that +Maida will probably do little if there is a problem at a parish, but generally the complaints are from liberal priests and liberal ‘liturgists’ and DRE’s when a new associate shows up and actually wants to say a licit Mass.

They will complain and probably loudly. But I’m not going to lose any sleep over it

 

[Ham1]

It seems to me that assigning the young orthodox priests to the most liberal parishs does two good things: 1. It helps to change the parish (and maybe even the pastor) for the better. 2. It gives a great challenge for the young priest to really do some good. I would think that these young priests are well aware of the condition of some parishes and want to do everything they can to help. If the archodiocese continues putting fine yound priests in the parishes that need the most help, think of how that will change the diocese over the next 15 years.

It’s a good thing.

 

[RNRobert]

Deacon2006:

More to that point about generational views.

A co-worker about my age (40’s) said that the church is not that relevant to his life. He made it clear that he can’t image the church surviving that much longer.

I said that’s okay since you thought it was your ecological duty not to have children then your views die with you and mine go on through my children.

His expression was priceless as it went from smug to dumbfounded to beet red livid as he realized that everything that holds to be true would be laughed at a couple hundred years from now.

I think this is exactly what some of the counter cultural priests and deacons must feel when they see the post Vatican II babies take their spots in the parishes. The old guards know that the church culture they promoted will be judged in time and nobody wants their life’s work to be known as the 20th century heresy.

No need for a revolution time is a relentless antiseptic; it takes care of the unfruitful quite ruthlessly.

Let’s pray that more priests embrace the truth of the Church that is being lead by John Paul.

God Bless

Someone else on this forum wrote that the conservative and traditionalist families are having large families while the liberals are contracepting themselves into extinction.

 

[misericordie]

Detroit Sue:

It’s the guys that were lost in the wake of Vatican II that are making the noise. I read that garbage by Greeley - Yeah he’s someone to take seriously. Him and all his smutty novels.

I am fortunate to know personally some of the recently ordained (within last 3 years) and some seminarians. Most have just flown under the radar to avoid drawing any attention to themselves until after ordination. Even so, they take a lot of heat from their pastors.

I hope you are ordained in a time when orthodoxy is regarded as a goal, not as an illness. I pray every day for holy priests.

One good thing, the old liberal priests are just getting older:clapping: and the young HOLY orthodox priests are growing in number!!! Yes! Now what we need is that a lot of those HOLY recently ordained get to PASTORS of most parishes! Then BISHOPS, Cardinals, etc!!! WOW! Sounds like Utopia! While the nursing homes accept the old LIBERAL priests, may WE the catholics in the PEW support and encourage the recently ordained, by inviting them to dinner, to outings, to bless our homes, baptize our children etc, BUT THAT IT BE THE RECENTLY ordained!! If the Pastor is liberal etc, well, like I said, invite only the recently ordained, and leave the rest out. In the parish, for the Sacrament of Penance, seek the newly ordained, don’t go to the others. For marriage, seek the recently ordained, don’t seek the older liberal others. SOON, THE OLDER ONES WILL BEGIN TO IMITATE the RECENTLY ordained, less they are abandoned by the few members who seek them out, even if only for a chat. Hurray to the NEW young ORDERS TOO!!! Such as the great Institute of the Incarnate Word fathers who are being given so many parishes in the USA and elsewhere. Now here are many recently ordained, and faithful orthodox Holy priests, ans seminarians: www.iveamerica.org

 

[system]

misericordie:

One good thing, the old liberal priests are just getting older and the young HOLY orthodox priests are growing in number

Is there any chance that you’ll realize that not all “liberal” priests are older, and that not all older priests are “liberal”? Or, that not all younger priests are “orthodox” and vice versa? Or is it just not worth our effort? You seem to have a real need to brand anyone you don’t like, as a “liberal”.

 

[IoA]

Melman:

Is there any chance that you’ll realize that not all “liberal” priests are older, and that not all older priests are “liberal”? Or, that not all younger priests are “orthodox” and vice versa? Or is it just not worth our effort? You seem to have a real need to brand anyone you don’t like, as a “liberal”.

No, not all older priests are liberal, and not all young priests are orthodox. However, polling data suggests that overall, there tends to be more younger orthodox men out there. I happen to know plenty of orthodox priests, but the only a couple young liberals.

If a person considers themselves “orthodox,” naturally they’re going to butt heads with heterodox liberals.

 

[Karl_Keating]

In demographics, what counts are trajectories: seeing where things are tending and making reasonable extrapolations.

While there are new ordinands who are politically, socially, and–most relevantly–theologically liberal, there are fewer of them proportionately than there were twenty and thirty years ago, and they are in the distinct minority of new ordinands.

It is true that many older priests complain about the new men being turned out by the seminaries. Sure, some seminaries have graduating classes that are indistinguishable from the ones they had in the 1980s, but that is uncommon. Most seminaries are better on orthodoxy now than they were then. (And there are a few brand-new seminaries since the 1980s; so far as I know, all of them are strong on orthodoxy.)

Demographic changes occur not in a decade but over several decades. Priests now in positions of authority were ordained, mainly, in the 1970s and 1980s, the decades that saw much theological liberalism in seminaries. In twenty years almost all of those priests will be retired. Their places will be taken by men who, on average, are much more conservative (but no less pastoral, in the true meaning of that word).

 

[misericordie]

Melman:

Is there any chance that you’ll realize that not all “liberal” priests are older, and that not all older priests are “liberal”? Or, that not all younger priests are “orthodox” and vice versa? Or is it just not worth our effort? You seem to have a real need to brand anyone you don’t like, as a “liberal”.

Melman, since you here attack (as you have done on other threads with other members) the person, namely ME, not the argument mentioned, you give the impression that you take offense when some member posts FACTS about the current state of affairs in the Church. If you notice, I do not attack anyone but ratehr arguments. While you critsize me, you then make a VERY subjective statement stating that I label everyone I don’t like as Liberal. Fact is ALL of us Catholics must always stand up for what the Church officially teaches. I doubt it teaches that older clergy members go around in despising their more orthodox younger counter-part, while they label them as “conservative.” If they can label us who follow church teachings, (not our personal whims) as “conservative”, we can of course in turn use the term, “liberal”, or really" that anything goes. In Logic one learns to argue against or for a thesis, not against the PERSON. To do otherwise(as you did here with me) would be not only subjective, but political.:tiphat:

 

[system]

misericordie:

Melman, since you here attack (as you have done on other threads with other members) the person, namely ME, not the argument mentioned, you give the impression that you take offense when some member posts FACTS about the current state of affairs in the Church.

You have made the statement, countless times, that older priests are exclusively liberal and younger priests are exclusively not. It is the extreme nature of your claims that I challenge. You are not presenting “FACTS about the current state of affairs in the Church”. You are presenting your own opinions. There may be a trend as Karl and IoA have said, but your repeated comments about “the old liberals” aren’t really helpful. Additionally, “liberal” is one of those subjective labels (just like “conservative”) and everyone reads it differently.

I have not “attacked other members on other threads” and I resent the implication. It is your position that I discuss, please take it in that light.

 

[misericordie]

Melman:

You have made the statement, countless times, that older priests are exclusively liberal and younger priests are exclusively not. It is the extreme nature of your claims that I challenge. You are not presenting “FACTS about the current state of affairs in the Church”. You are presenting your own opinions. There may be a trend as Karl and IoA have said, but your comments such as “we just need to wait for all the old liberals to die” (yes, I’m paraphrasing but I can find several examples of this if you like) is not accurate and it’s not helpful.

I have not “attacked other members on other threads” and I resent the implication.

Let me repeat myself, you continue to be on attack mode, while not addressig the arguments, but rather ME. I will again state: MOST!!! Older priests are liberal, while MOST newly ordained are more catholic (here meaning faithful to the official teachings of the Church) and faithful. this has been proven in current demographics.
As per the other threads, I meant to say with regards to MY other threads and posts, you do not address the thesis(the argument) but rather defensively attack the messenger, ME. Again, that is a philosiphical fallacy, which is contrary to any logical argument.
:yawn: :yawn:

 

[system]

As I edited my last post to indicate, I am not attacking you or anyone personally, but one’s opinions and viewpoints are fair game.

 

[misericordie]

Melman:

As I edited my last post to indicate, I am not attacking you or anyone personally, but one’s opinions and viewpoints are fair game.

Um,:ehh: :yawn: :yawn: :sleep:

 

[CD4]

kjvail:

Sounds like good news:

Jibes with what I’ve seen among the laity too. The moderate parish near my home where I occasionally attend novus ordo masses is mostly 45+, the extremely conservative/orthodox parish where I often attend TLM probably has an avg age of 35 - lots of children, teenagers and the FSSP priest that performs the Latin Mass there can’t be a day over 30.

**Just a note…I wish we had an FSSP parish in the Cincinnati area. **

**I recently attended a Tridentine Mass at a local parish that would be considered “outside” the Church with a friend who goes there. There were LOTS of young people and young families. **

I belong to a very large parish with a very liberal pastor and staff…The contrast between the two are astonishing in nearly every way. The reverence, mode of dress and general attitude are nearly opposite…

I teach in the RCIA program at our parish, and the people who come are looking for the “real” Cathoilc Church…Our director wants us to teach all the “new” stuff…We, the Team, have to be very careful what we say, but we get our messge across…Most of us are on the orthodox side…We think people WANT orthodoxy…They WANT truth…

 

[maklavan]

If young priests are coming out of the seminaries filled with conservative and orthodox ideas, then someone in the seminary must be teaching these ideas. The place to look, therefore, is in the seminaries. Incidentally, this is not confined to the USA. Similar complaints are being expressed in the UK and in South Africa, where I was for many years.

 

[mercygate]

Young, Orthodox Priests (and seminarians) in Detroit:

Gather 'round Fr. Perrone at Assumption Grotto (quietly). I’m from the Archdiocese of Detroit – operative word: “from.” You are in the thick of it. Patience, humility, fortitude.