Disturbing truth or rumor? I'm hoping it's a rumor

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Detroit_Sue

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There was a big meeting of veteran priests in the Archdiocese a week or so ago. They are up in arms about the orthodoxy of the new priests and seminarians. There was a claim made that these guys want to go back to Vat I celebration of Mass, but that is nowhere near the truth. Some of the priests attending allegedly refused to take on newly ordained priests if “these kind of guys are being ordained.” The sad thing is, I’m inclined to believe that at least some of this is true. Supposedly, the seminary is looking at men who may be too “rigid.”

This information came from a reliable source in the diocese, which is why I’m so upset about it.
 
Detroit Sue:
This information came from a reliable source in the diocese, which is why I’m so upset about it.
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Who knows about the validity of the entire meeting and all, but there is certainly a tension present amongst the New Faithful and the members of the old guard.

According to sociological data (as reported by Fr. Andrew Greeley here), younger priests tend to be more conservative, and thus, orthodox. We don’t, however, tend to be pre-Vatican II. Just as Greeley does in this article, it’s often misconstrued that because we are orthodox, and don’t follow some false spirit of Vatican II, that we are indeed pre-Vaticanites. This is quite simply not the case. Why? Because people my age (I’m 24 this month) have never known a Church other than the one we have currently. Most of us want the true spirit of the Council to emerge, not some false reflection of it. This is why you will see that a smaller percentage of priests under 40 believe in women’s ordination, married clergy, etc. We don’t tend to be liberal.

A lot of young Catholics (and young priests) really like the Tridentine Mass. But I’ve never met a seminarian who thinks that the Novus Ordo is invalid; if they did, they wouldn’t be studying for the Latin rite priesthood.

Hope that helps.
 
It’s the guys that were lost in the wake of Vatican II that are making the noise. I read that garbage by Greeley - Yeah he’s someone to take seriously. Him and all his smutty novels.

I am fortunate to know personally some of the recently ordained (within last 3 years) and some seminarians. Most have just flown under the radar to avoid drawing any attention to themselves until after ordination. Even so, they take a lot of heat from their pastors.

I hope you are ordained in a time when orthodoxy is regarded as a goal, not as an illness. I pray every day for holy priests.
 
Sounds like good news:
This is why you will see that a smaller percentage of priests under 40 believe in women’s ordination, married clergy, etc. We don’t tend to be liberal.
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Jibes with what I’ve seen among the laity too. The moderate parish near my home where I occasionally attend novus ordo masses is mostly 45+, the extremely conservative/orthodox parish where I often attend TLM probably has an avg age of 35 - lots of children, teenagers and the FSSP priest that performs the Latin Mass there can’t be a day over 30.
 
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kjvail:
Sounds like good news:

Jibes with what I’ve seen among the laity too. The moderate parish near my home where I occasionally attend novus ordo masses is mostly 45+, the extremely conservative/orthodox parish where I often attend TLM probably has an avg age of 35 - lots of children, teenagers and the FSSP priest that performs the Latin Mass there can’t be a day over 30.
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Hmmm. Maybe this explains my experience. The chapel to the east of me is mostly older people (45+) and is where I seen lit. abuse most often. The chapel to the west of me (the one I go to) has a very large number of young people (children, adolcescents, young adults) as well as quite a few much older (80+) members. It is also a much more orthodox chapel. Can it be the age?

John
 
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DrCat:
Hmmm. Maybe this explains my experience. The chapel to the east of me is mostly older people (45+) and is where I seen lit. abuse most often. The chapel to the west of me (the one I go to) has a very large number of young people (children, adolcescents, young adults) as well as quite a few much older (80+) members. It is also a much more orthodox chapel. Can it be the age?

John
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I think the children and adolescents of the 60’s are much more likely to be liberal minded yes. It’s not 100% tho, the head of the very conservative parish I mentioned is the deputy vicar of my arch-diocese, is very conservative from what I gather by his homilies and is probabaly in his mid-60s.
 
I’ve always thought that newer priests will be more orthodox since liberal families would unlikely produce priests. They teach their children all that they think is wrong with the Church so why would anyone want to serve such a Church. More orthodox families love the Church the way it is and teach that to their children. Their children will also love the Church and want to serve it.
 
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Poisson:
I’ve always thought that newer priests will be more orthodox since liberal families would unlikely produce priests. They teach their children all that they think is wrong with the Church so why would anyone want to serve such a Church. More orthodox families love the Church the way it is and teach that to their children. Their children will also love the Church and want to serve it.
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Excellent point. I’m sure it is a contibuting factor in the rise of orthodox priests in the past few years.

James
 
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Poisson:
I’ve always thought that newer priests will be more orthodox since liberal families would unlikely produce priests. They teach their children all that they think is wrong with the Church so why would anyone want to serve such a Church. More orthodox families love the Church the way it is and teach that to their children. Their children will also love the Church and want to serve it.
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The priesthood is counter-cultural. Why would a liberal family produce a child (who is presumably liberal himself) and be interested in the priesthood, when the aims and goals of the liberalism are flourishing in popular culture?

You’re exactly right.
 
The priesthood is counter-cultural. Why would a liberal family produce a child (who is presumably liberal himself) and be interested in the priesthood, when the aims and goals of the liberalism are flourishing in popular culture?
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Since rebellion against the values of parents is fairly common, I think you might find a few good priests coming from liberal families.

You’re right about the priesthood being counter-cultural. So is being an orthodox Catholic. One of my favorite books is “Following Christ in a Consumer Society”. Can’t remember the author’s name, but he’s Catholic.
 
More to that point about generational views.

A co-worker about my age (40’s) said that the church is not that relevant to his life. He made it clear that he can’t image the church surviving that much longer.

I said that’s okay since you thought it was your ecological duty not to have children then your views die with you and mine go on through my children.

His expression was priceless as it went from smug to dumbfounded to beet red livid as he realized that everything that holds to be true would be laughed at a couple hundred years from now.

I think this is exactly what some of the counter cultural priests and deacons must feel when they see the post Vatican II babies take their spots in the parishes. The old guards know that the church culture they promoted will be judged in time and nobody wants their life’s work to be known as the 20th century heresy.

No need for a revolution time is a relentless antiseptic; it takes care of the unfruitful quite ruthlessly.

Let’s pray that more priests embrace the truth of the Church that is being lead by John Paul.

God Bless
 
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kjvail:
I think the children and adolescents of the 60’s are much more likely to be liberal minded yes. It’s not 100% tho, the head of the very conservative parish I mentioned is the deputy vicar of my arch-diocese, is very conservative from what I gather by his homilies and is probabaly in his mid-60s.
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Definitely. I was not suggesting that age is the only factor. I know heterodoxical younger people, and many many orthodox older (50’s and 60’s) who are quite orthodox. In fact, I’m one myself. So, no, it’s not 100% (But what is? Even Ivory Snow is only 99.9% pure. 😃 )
 
I hope a rumor too, and whatever it is that it blows over soon. Ten years ago I lived in a diocese where a newly ordained priest started wearing a biretta (triangular clerical hat topped with a pom-pom) at Mass. You would not believe the sensation this caused and how alienated the “veteran” priests were! Strange what causes commotion.

These more “liberal” veteran priests take a beating in these forums, often deservedly, but I think it’s important that we put ourselves in their position too. One priest said to me in a truly heartfelt way (I’m paraphrasing): “For 35 years we’ve been what kept the Church going as our best friends left the priesthood to get married and the vocations dried up. We were the first generation of priests NOT to become monsignors or canonical pastors [guaranteed to stay in their parish till death], and we’ve taken our assignments all over the diocese like it was the year we were ordained. Our reward for this is that on a good day I’m considered a bleeding heart liberal by you guys [young priests and seminarians] and on a bad day I’m suspected of every sexual deviancy possible by anyone. In any other profession, after 35 years I would be honored, and as a priest it’s just another day.”

After this conversation I did my best to honor this priest simply as a priest. I helped him vest for Mass every day (and bit my tongue as he chose a nice serape stole to wear over his polyester chasuble!). I asked his opinions on anything I could think of and listened to his responses. It was a growth experience for me and I think I helped him too. Did I adopt his "liberal opinions? NO. But I did some good simply by being “pastoral” in the best sense of the word, and i hope young priests today do this too.
 
If the veteran priests in Detroit do not want to take on any of the newly ordained priests, then these priests can simpily be sent to the orthodox parishes like the ones mentioned in another thread. I hope Sacred Heart Seminary continues the progress made under former rector and now Bishop of Oakland, Bp. Vingeron. With the Jesus seminar crowd in their 70s, I do not see how much longer they can keep their power for. Also, if Detroit dumps the “rigid” orthodox seminarians, they will be left with almost no seminarians, and be in the same situation the LA archdiocese is in right now.
 
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Fortiterinre:
Th “For 35 years we’ve been what kept the Church going as our best friends left the priesthood to get married and the vocations dried up. We were the first generation of priests NOT to become monsignors or canonical pastors [guaranteed to stay in their parish till death], and we’ve taken our assignments all over the diocese like it was the year we were ordained. Our reward for this is that on a good day I’m considered a bleeding heart liberal by you guys [young priests and seminarians] and on a bad day I’m suspected of every sexual deviancy possible by anyone. In any other profession, after 35 years I would be honored, and as a priest it’s just another day.”
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Wow. Thank you so very much for providing this very different perspective. I don’t think that justifies junk, but it does give me a new idea what our priests have had to slog through these past 35 years.

Oh – tell your pastor, for me, won’t you?: the only accusation a priest is safe from these days is spousal abuse. But give some people their way, and he’ll be susceptible even to that! :bigyikes:
 
QUOTE=DrCat]Hmmm. Maybe this explains my experience. The chapel to the east of me is mostly older people (45+) and is where I seen lit. abuse most often. The chapel to the west of me (the one I go to) has a very large number of young people (children, adolcescents, young adults) as well as quite a few much older (80+) members. It is also a much more orthodox chapel. Can it be the age?

John
Hi DrCat;

Just wanted to mention in passing that I have attended both the Latin Mass and the Norvus Ordo.
I think what draws the youth and families that have only seen the Novus Ordo mass is the outward reverence the rubics call for in the Latin Mass. Only a few priests celebrate the Norvus Ordo in a reverent manner. If what we say takes place in the holy sacrifice of the Mass, then the Latin Mass shows this outwardly. I’m not saying that the Norvus Ordo mass is not valid, just not reverently offered. Maybe because the priest is facing us he feels he must entertain. It must be hard to focus on God when a thousand or so people are staring at you. 😦
 
As a prospective seminarian at Detroit’s Sacred Heart Major Seminary…I find this thread EXTREMELY important to me. This is not just a passing interest for me.

DetroitSue…any further info you can shed?
 
FOR BONNIE:

I have the book you mentioned. It is “Following Christ in a Consumer Society” by John F. Kavanaugh. There are two editions, I believe. One was updated in 1991 (original 1981)

Excellent read!

If you enjoyed that, you might enjoy Thomas Dubay’s “Happy are You Poor.”

The Gospel is extreme, is foreign for the most part, and radical to our society.

And if it makes anyone feel better, a broad survey was done a couple of years ago with “educated” youngsters 18-28 age group.
The trend, surprisingly to the general public, was a return to Orthodoxy. The survey was conducted all over the US, in diverse demographics and denominations. But, overall, the cry from the young adults was “we want Truth, capital T, and we are sick to death of moral relativism.” The young adults expressed a desire and craving for order, tradition, and solid teaching. And these were intelligent, some Ivy League so-called “enlightened” from the stronghold of their upbringing; they are coming home.

Encouraging…>Yes. Popular in the Media? No

sincerely,
K
 
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lepanto:
As a prospective seminarian at Detroit’s Sacred Heart Major Seminary…I find this thread EXTREMELY important to me. This is not just a passing interest for me.

DetroitSue…any further info you can shed?
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I heard this from an ordained clergy. There is one monsignor in particular who is in charge of the assignment board, and he is making profoundly bad matches for the new priests and the parishes they are assigned to. I think it’s his “goal” to end up with “well-rounded” priests (whatever that is), but he is ending up making the priests and the parishioners miserable.

Lepanto, I pray that you do enter Sacred Heart, because by the time you will be ordained, many of those off-the-wall guys will be gone.
 
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