Diurnale Romanum

[JReducation]

FutureKC,

Do you regularly assist at the traditional Mass? If so, I recommend the Roman Divine Office because it will be on the same calendar your parish uses for Mass. I really feel like I’m praying with the Church and that my breviary is an extension of the Mass.

p.s. good for you for trying to say all the day hours. I can barely scrape by with lauds, vespers, and compline.

Rich makes a very good point. The breviary that you use, should be from the same form as the missal so that they compliment each other.

For example, this week, Franciscans skipped four days of the 6th Week of Easter in our breviary. In our missal, there are four Franciscan saints this week. The Franciscan saints trump Easter weekdays. If we were following one breviary and the missal from the other form, it wouldn’t harmonize. In today’s calender, you guys celebrate Ascension, but we celebrate St. Pascal Baylon. We move Ascension to Sunday. Tomorrow we celebrate St. Felix Cantalese, Friday of Easter week 6 is also gone or in the EF, Friday from the octave of the Ascension is not celebrated.

When your breviary and missal are not from the same form, your liturgical day is disjointed.

Good point Rich.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[wasserfall]

The abbot decides based on the needs of his community. The monks are bound to obey him. A few communities use the 1962 Missal, the majority use the current Missal.

My question was ‘why?’

Perhaps it is an unanswerable question.

 

[JReducation]

My question was ‘why?’

Perhaps it is an unanswerable question.

Because the abbots wants to make the changes as he believes that they are in the best interest of the community. The one thing that you will find very different in monasteries and mendicant houses is that we never ask superiors “why?”

Most of the time, we make changes or do something and we have no idea why. Only the superior knows. If you’re a monk or a friar, the superior’s voice is always the voice of Christ. The law gives him many rights and he can exercise them without explaining himself.

In this case, the abbots had reasons for making the changes, but they did not always explain themselves to the monks. In some communities, either monks or friars, the reasons are explained to the community, but are not allowed to be shared with others outside the house. Friars and monks try to protect themselves from the outside as much as possible. It gets too confusing if you have too many opinions on one simple question like changing your liturgy. People look at these things very differently.

That’s the blessing of being a monk or a friar. Abbots and Priors can do all of these things and you don’t have to worry about it. If it’s wrong, the superior carries the blame. If it’s right, everyone benefits. Either way, you’re free, because your role is to pray.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

The Franciscan Breviary does something similar. Prime is gone, but not the psalms. They’re distributed among the minor hours and the invitatory psalms. Except that our breviary was never meant to be chanted. Chanting is a very novel thing with us. It began in the 1980s. From 1209 to about 1985, there was no chanting allowed at mass or the LOTH. Other forms of music were allowed.

I don’t know anything about the Carthusian Breviary other than the fact that it has a Benedictine flavor with some changes of their own. I visited a friend of mine who is a Carthusian, but I did not pray with them. Even if you’re a religious, you remain in the guest house.

As to the Benedictine Breviary, I believe that there is an English version with the current psalm translations. There is an abbey in Alabama. The monks were on EWTN one night. They spoke about using the traditional Benedictine diurnal, but in English, because their abbot does not like Latin. I don’t have to tell you that the abbot is always the voice of Christ. End of story.

**I guess it’s this obedience that makes the monastic life the highest vocation in the Church **and gives them the highest rank in dignity among religious. If I had a hat, I’d take it off to them. But we wear cowls.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

Explain, please

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

There is a new Roman-Franciscan Breviary that follows the form of the Liturgy of the Hours that was adopted in the 1970s. The English translation is still not out. In English we’re using the double book format. It’s the Roman Breviary and a smaller Franciscan Breviary in one binder. The smaller Franciscan one is complete. It has all of the proper offices for the Franciscan holy days. It’s just that it’s not, let’s say, woven together. They’re two books that you have to carry around. Today you use the Roman side and tomorrow you use the Franciscan side.

The other language groups have the integrated edition. The English language group has not finished its work.

The good thing about the religious orders is that we don’t depend on ICEL. We have our own liturgical commissions and they do all of our translating. The benefit to that is that the same people who create the English translation produced the other translations: Spanish, French, German, Italian, Portuguese, and Hebrew.

The benefit of having all of the languages in front of you along with the Latin is that you can cross examine to make sure that you translated the Latin the same way in each language. Whereas ICEL does not have the other texts. They only have the original Latin. That explains why the Roman texts were off in English, but right in the other languages. One wonders if ICEL had the chance and the language experts to do the cross referencing.

Now, the Franciscan Liturgical Commission is working on the 1962 Breviary. Because we had the Seraphic Breviary, but that was abrogated by Pope Paul VI and Pope Benedict has not authorized it’s use. We have to take the Roman Breviary that was in place and “Franciscanize” it. I know, there is no such word. But I couldn’t find another. That can take years to finish.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

I used to have a plastic cover that would fit the Roman Breviary and the Proper Offices of Franciscan Saints and Blesseds in the LotH (I am looking at the book now). It broke. Haven’t been able to find it again.

 

[JReducation]

Explain, please

The Church has always held that the monastic life is the highest calling in Christianity. The monk or nun, gives himself totally to Christ without any mediation of spouse, apostolate or community. His day is filled with praise of God. Monks do very little work, about two to four hours a day, just to keep fit. They have very little time in community. Some come together to pray and for mass and some do not.

During their lives, they conform themselves to the crucified Christ. They’re alone. They lay down their lives for the people of God. Their love is for the world, not for individuals. Nothing that happens in the world distracts them, because their day is spend in prayer, sacred studies, meditation or rest, but most of it in solitude and silence.

Like the crucified Christ, they accept the will of God as it comes to them through the superior. If they are not asked to violated the commandments, they do not question the superior, just as Christ did not question God the Father.

Very few people are graced enough to live this life. Monastics make up the smallest segment of Catholic society. Their numbers does not reach 100,000. It never has. This life is for very special people.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV ;0

 

[Melchior_1]

Is there a place where one can obtain a copy of these different Missals and LOTH’s? Like the 1962 version, Franciscan version, misc. Benedictine flavors? I can only seem to find vanilla versions.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

The Church has always held that the monastic life is the highest calling in Christianity.

Br. JR, FFV ;0

Thanks fratello!

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

Is there a place where one can obtain a copy of these different Missals and LOTH’s? Like the 1962 version, Franciscan version, misc. Benedictine flavors? I can only seem to find vanilla versions.

Franciscan Resources still carries the Franciscan supplement (I think).

 

[JReducation]

Is there a place where one can obtain a copy of these different Missals and LOTH’s? Like the 1962 version, Franciscan version, misc. Benedictine flavors? I can only seem to find vanilla versions.

The Franciscans did not have a 1962 edition. At that time, there were the Seraphic missal and breviary. Since they are older than 1962. No one is allowed to use them. They’re out of print.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[Melchior_1]

The Franciscans did not have a 1962 edition. At that time, there were the Seraphic missal and breviary. Since they are older than 1962. No one is allowed to use them. They’re out of print.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

Well, I meant different versions in general. Like a 1962 version of the plain LOTH, a current Franciscan one, misc etc.

That Franciscan Resources website is designed TERRIBLY.

 

[JReducation]

Well, I meant different versions in general. Like a 1962 version of the plain LOTH, a current Franciscan one, misc etc.

That Franciscan Resources website is designed TERRIBLY.

It’s a horrible site.

The current Roman-Franciscan breviary in English comes in four volumes. It can be purchased through them. Communities buy them in bulk, so the can buy them from the publisher and save a little money.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[Melchior_1]

It’s a horrible site.

The current Roman-Franciscan breviary in English comes in four volumes. It can be purchased through them. Communities buy them in bulk, so the can buy them from the publisher and save a little money.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

…

I’ll work on my little Christian Prayer book before I invest in a four volume set

 

[Rich_C]

…

I’ll work on my little Christian Prayer book before I invest in a four volume set

I would do the same thing, but (if not, please correct me) I think the four-volume set primarily introduces a greater variety for the whole liturgical year, and the office of matins. So unless you pray matins, using the full set shouldn’t represent a significant increase in time commitment, just a significant increase in $$$.

 

[JReducation]

I would do the same thing, but (if not, please correct me) I think the four-volume set primarily introduces a greater variety for the whole liturgical year, and the office of matins. So unless you pray matins, using the full set shouldn’t represent a significant increase in time commitment, just a significant increase in $$$.

The four volume set that we use has the proper Office of Readings and the proper minor hours for each day of the year. That’s why you end up with more pages. Lauds, Vespers and Compline are the same in the four volume as in the one volume, as are the propers for the seasons and the saints.

Our’s of course is the Franciscan version, so there are going to be differences in holy days. But if you get the Roman Breviary, you should be praying the same Divine Office that every secular priest prays.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

The four volume set that we use has the proper Office of Readings and the proper minor hours for each day of the year. That’s why you end up with more pages. Lauds, Vespers and Compline are the same in the four volume as in the one volume, as are the propers for the seasons and the saints.

Our’s of course is the Franciscan version, so there are going to be differences in holy days. But if you get the Roman Breviary, you should be praying the same Divine Office that every secular priest prays.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

Is there a 1 volume Franciscan version? If yes, where can one get it? Is there a “St Joseph’s Guide” for it?

Thanks!

 

[JReducation]

Is there a 1 volume Franciscan version? If yes, where can one get it? Is there a “St Joseph’s Guide” for it?

Thanks!

There is an insert that you can buy for the one volume Christian Prayer and there is also the St. Joseph Guide for the one volume with the Franciscan insert. You can get it through www.franciscanresources.com . They are very slow. After you order, you may have to call them up to remind them.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

Grazie, fratello!

 

[filiusromae]

There is a new Roman-Franciscan Breviary that follows the form of the Liturgy of the Hours that was adopted in the 1970s. The English translation is still not out. In English we’re using the double book format. It’s the Roman Breviary and a smaller Franciscan Breviary in one binder. The smaller Franciscan one is complete. It has all of the proper offices for the Franciscan holy days. It’s just that it’s not, let’s say, woven together. They’re two books that you have to carry around. Today you use the Roman side and tomorrow you use the Franciscan side.

The other language groups have the integrated edition. The English language group has not finished its work.

The good thing about the religious orders is that we don’t depend on ICEL. We have our own liturgical commissions and they do all of our translating. The benefit to that is that the same people who create the English translation produced the other translations: Spanish, French, German, Italian, Portuguese, and Hebrew.

The benefit of having all of the languages in front of you along with the Latin is that you can cross examine to make sure that you translated the Latin the same way in each language. Whereas ICEL does not have the other texts. They only have the original Latin. That explains why the Roman texts were off in English, but right in the other languages. One wonders if ICEL had the chance and the language experts to do the cross referencing.

Now, the Franciscan Liturgical Commission is working on the 1962 Breviary. Because we had the Seraphic Breviary, but that was abrogated by Pope Paul VI and Pope Benedict has not authorized it’s use. We have to take the Roman Breviary that was in place and “Franciscanize” it. I know, there is no such word. But I couldn’t find another. That can take years to finish.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

I am a member of the Third Order of St. Francis. I pray in Italian and use the “Liturgia delle Ore” secondo il rito Romano con il calendario Serafico. (Liturgy of the Hours according to the Roman rite following the Franciscan calendar) I bought these books in Assisi and as far as I know this is the office that is used at Assisi and throughout Italy by all of these who follow the Franciscan way of life. Here in the States, I have seen a very cleaver cover for the Liturgy of the Hours and a Franciscan supplement which comes in 4 small volumes to match each volume of the office books. It’s a little cumbersome but gets the job done, if you can the supplements. They seems to always be out of print and can cost the earth on Ebay.

I wonder if folks know that the Breviary was “invented” by the Franciscans. Since we don’t chant the offices we didn’t need all those “song books” so the offices were streamlined into a few portable volumes. I love the Franciscans.

Pax et Bonum