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Andrew_Larkoski
Guest
“Why does the Catholic Church have authority from God to teach in His name and no other churches do? It doesn’t say that in the Bible anywhere. I need some proof.”
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mrS4ntA
Guest
“You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it” (Matt. 16:18).
“And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.” (Matt. 16:19)
“And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.” (Matt. 16:19)
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Britta
Guest
Andrew Larkoski said:
You will find your proof more in history than in scripture. First of all, it was the Catholic Church that established the canon of the bible, around 400 AD. There was no other Christian church at that time. It was the Church that existed first and scripture was born from that.
What I can give you is scripture references to the Church as having authority, being one, with apostolic succession, having power to forgive sins, etc.
John 20:21
Luke 22:29-30
Matt 16:18
John 10:16
Luke 22:32
John 21:17
Eph 4:11
1 Tim 3:1 8:5-17
Tit 1:5
Matt 28:18-20
John 20:23
1 Cor 11:23-24
Luke 10:16
Matt 18:18
Matt 18:17
Then comes the part where you have to decide…okay, which church? There are so many.
In short, the reason the CC has authority is because it was the only one for many years, 1500 to be more precise. Jesus started the CC, man started the rest.
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rod_of_iron
Guest
mrS4ntA said:
Yet, no mention of the Catholic church being the church spoken of in those 2 verses. I can make the same claim about my church.
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Leo44
Guest
The problem is your church is not 2000 years old, you can make the calim but you’d be making a false claim. Sorry
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mrS4ntA
Guest
rod of iron:
Because Jesus intended to found only one true Church… until the Reformation (or the Anglican breakaway, whichever was first) there was only one Christian Church. The term “Catholic” was only used to refer to its universality and inclusion of all people of all nation. Now, after the reformation the term becomes something needed to differ and identify this “church” Jesus founded.
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Adam_D
Guest
Andrew Larkoski said:
I think you snuck the wrong assumption into your question. To my knowledge, the Church does not teach that only the Church has the right to teach in Jesus’s name (can you show me some such official statement?) Rather the Church teaches that she is protected by the Holy Spirit not to err in her teaching, as defined in the doctrine of the infallibility of the pope, whereas other Christians do not enjoy such a protection; nor do they even claim to.
Regarding others’ authority to teach, I remember that Jesus said that whoever is not against us is for us. This was in remonstrating his disciples who wanted to stop people that were casting out demons in Jesus’ name, but who weren’t one of their company.
This passage (I forget which, and must get to bed shortly so please pardon my lack of thoroughness) seems to demonstrate both that there is a visible Church that can be clearly understood as THE Christian Church, and yet others may be Christians that deserve to be respected and seen as ‘for’ the Church and not against her, even though they are not, properly speaking, members of the Church.
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funkyhorn
Guest
rod of iron:
).
As we see in Mt 16:18, Jesus appointed Peter to be the rock on which He would build His Church…Peter is the first Pope. We also know from 1 Tim 3:15 that this Church is infallable…the pillar and foundation of truth. So we see from Scripture that Jesus founded ONE infallable Church to be led by Peter, the first Pope.
This authority was passed down through the centuries through the Church. Here is a list of all the Popes from Peter to John Paul II. As we can see from this list, the original Christian Church (today’s Catholic Church) has an unbroken line of apostolic succession and therefore still has the infallable authority to teach in Jesus’ name.
The reason protestant churches don’t have INFALLABLE authority to teach in Jesus’ name is because they all broke off from that original Church and forfeited any claim they might have to apostolic succession…and, as was already stated before, no protestant church even claims to have infallable authority to teach in Jesus’ name.
I’m sorry, but you can’t make the same claim about your church (unless your church is the Catholic Church
).As we see in Mt 16:18, Jesus appointed Peter to be the rock on which He would build His Church…Peter is the first Pope. We also know from 1 Tim 3:15 that this Church is infallable…the pillar and foundation of truth. So we see from Scripture that Jesus founded ONE infallable Church to be led by Peter, the first Pope.
This authority was passed down through the centuries through the Church. Here is a list of all the Popes from Peter to John Paul II. As we can see from this list, the original Christian Church (today’s Catholic Church) has an unbroken line of apostolic succession and therefore still has the infallable authority to teach in Jesus’ name.
The reason protestant churches don’t have INFALLABLE authority to teach in Jesus’ name is because they all broke off from that original Church and forfeited any claim they might have to apostolic succession…and, as was already stated before, no protestant church even claims to have infallable authority to teach in Jesus’ name.
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Tanais
Guest
rod of iron:
true is doesn’t say the catholic church, but that is because that was a name adopted later. You are thinking far too literalistic. Furthermore, what is the only church that recognizes Peter as having a special role as prince of the Apostles and is the rock that the faith is built upon? And how does the verse 1Tim. 3:15 “church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.”(NIV) square with your church? Does your church change its doctrines? How can a pillar and foundation of truth keep changing its mind? The Catholic Church is the only church that hasn’t changed her doctrines in her whole 2,000 year existence.
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rod_of_iron
Guest
Yes, you are correct. My church is not only 2000 years old. My church was established before the formation of the world. I belong to the Church of the Firstborn. This Church of the Firstborn is the church that Jesus established in the beginning. That church is spiritual first. It continues spiritually whether or not it is physically upon the Earth. It appear that the Catholic church is just physical. This is what makes the Catholic church a man-made church. But my church was established by Jesus before the world was made. It was established with Adam and Eve. It was restored by Jesus when He came to Earth in the flesh. It was restored for the last time by Jesus through His servant Joseph Smith. It continued through the RLDS church and now continues through the remnant branches of the RLDS church. They have the authority of God. The Catholic church as it exists is the successor of the Roman Empire. The Catholic church adopted the hierarchical structure of the Roman Empire and used its power to persecute all that opposed the Catholic church for many, many centuries. The church of Jesus Christ does not persecute. That is one way you can tell a fraud. If a church persecutes others who do not believe like them, the church is not Christ’s church. The Catholic church has such a track record of persecution. This record can be seen in the Inquisition and the Crusades. The Catholic church spent centuries trying to force non-Catholics into believing what the Catholic church taught. Christ’s church does not force people to believe. Forcing others to bellieve like you and taking away their agency are ploys of the devil. Since the Catholic church has this track record of forcing people to believe its doctrines and comply to them, it cannot be the church that Jesus established on the Earth.
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hlgomez
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Give us your proof about your claim. Not just some weird ideas that supports nothing. If that then is your idea, then everybody else can claim that they are the Church. The evidence is important to any claim, both spiritual and physical.
Umm…:nope: The Catholic Church is not just physical, but one in spiritual and physical. The Cathecism of the Catholic Church says:
770: The Church is in history, but at the same time she transcends it. It is only "with the eyes of faith"183 that one can see her in her visible reality and at the same time in her spiritual reality as bearer of divine life."The one mediator, Christ, established and ever sustains here on earth his holy Church, the community of faith, hope, and charity, as a visible organization through which he communicates truth and grace to all men."184
771: The Church is at the same time:
-a "society structured with hierarchical organs and the mystical body of Christ;
-the visible society and the spiritual community;
-the earthly Church and the Church endowed with heavenly riches."185
These dimensions together constitute “one complex reality which comes together from a human and a divine element”:
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Pio
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space_ghost
Guest
rod of iron:
you try awful hard to disprove whats been universally accepted by many a genius such as St Augustine, Thomas Aquinas, G K Chesterton, John Cardinal Newman… who knows… you may be right… but, i think i will throw my lot in with the aforementioned group… Peace…
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hlgomez
Guest
Jesus said in the Gospels, "the gates of hell will not prevail against it (the Church). In your statment above you are implying that the Church that was founded by Jesus did not prevail against hell and when Joseph Smith came, Jesus “restored” it, thru him?You’re contradicting what Jesus Himself said–"the gates of hell WILL NOT PREVAIL against it (the Church).
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Pio
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Tmaque
Guest
rod of iron:
Hypothetically speaking of course, IF I can prove it to you will you admit it’s false?
So, if I can demonstrate to you evidence of early Mormon forced conversion of people you will concede that it is a false religion?
Hypothetically speaking of course, IF I can prove it to you will you admit it’s false?
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hlgomez
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Don’t just believe in accusations unsustained by facts. I challenge you to read history with no bias. Don’t believe in anything your church elders is saying. The’re pure heresy.
In the contrary it was the Catholic Church that was persecuted for many many centuries until now and this can be witnessed by the blood of her martyrs. Does your church ever had martyrs for the faith?
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Pio
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hlgomez
Guest
If your claim is supposedly true, her (the Church) members can do harm to the Church if they do something contrary to the teachings of the Church. It cannot be outrightly said that it is the Catholic Church that does it. The Catholic Church teaches charity, but her members may choose to do the contrary simply because we all have our free will.
One thing, don’t distort history by twisting the facts of the Inquisition. That’s the weapon of anti-catholics.
Pio
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hlgomez
Guest
Another thing also, the real test for the true Church is not by means of “persecuting.” The real test is LOVE. DO you have LOVE in your church? If you have, then why do you hate everybody else outside your “church?” That’s the test.
(1Cor 13…)
If I speak in human and angelic tongues but do not have love, I am a resounding gong or a clashing cymbal.
And if I have the gift of prophecy and comprehend all mysteries and all knowledge; if I have all faith so as to move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give away everything I own, and if I hand my body over so that I may boast but do not have love, I gain nothing. … So faith, hope, love remain, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
Shalom,
Pio
(1Cor 13…)
If I speak in human and angelic tongues but do not have love, I am a resounding gong or a clashing cymbal.
And if I have the gift of prophecy and comprehend all mysteries and all knowledge; if I have all faith so as to move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give away everything I own, and if I hand my body over so that I may boast but do not have love, I gain nothing. … So faith, hope, love remain, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
Shalom,
Pio
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rod_of_iron
Guest
Perhaps. What’s your proof?
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rod_of_iron
Guest
Doesn’t the pope represent the Catholic church? When past popes have persecuted, imprisoned, tortured, and murdered hundreds of thousands of people or forced government officials to do so by threatening excommunication if they didn’t comply, doesn’t that show that the Catholic church has a track record of persecution, imprisonment, torture, and murder? Maybe the Catholic church teaches charity, but it did not show any charity to the hundreds of thousands that were killed by the Catholic church during the Inquisition. If you downplay the facts about the Inquisition, you are just covering up the great iniquities that the Catholic church has committed in the past. You have to ask yourself, “Would Jesus have persecuted, tortured, imprisoned, or murdered all those who did not believe His teachings if He had been on Earth during the time that the Inquisition occurred?”
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hlgomez
Guest
Where is the document that says this??? Can you rpoduce one? You’re purely speculating.
Pio
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