Divine Healing and Claiming Your Healing

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Holly3278

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Hey everyone. I am friends with some Pentecostals who live in my apartment. They keep telling me that I can be healed if I just claim my healing. I don’t believe this. They also say that everyone is meant to be healed and that there are various obstacles which prevent people from being healed such as hanging on to their suffering.

Anyway, I told them that I don’t believe in “claiming” my healing. I told them that I believe that the Lord permits (but does not necessarily wants) people to suffer to allow a greater good to be brought out of it. I told them that if it was God’s will for everyone to be healed that there would be no more death and no more cancer among believers. I kind of halfway convinced them. I also told them how Saint Paul says in the Bible that he rejoices in his sufferings.

In addition, I told them that I want to suffer somewhat because I want to be able to offer it up to God so He can bring some sort of good out of it. Believe me, I am not perfect by any means. I am a sinner and I told them that. However they seem to insist that God wants me to be healed and that all I have to do is “claim” my healing.

How do I answer these things? Did I do a good job in what I told them because I’m honestly not sure.
 
Holly,
I think your response was more nuanced and thoughtful than you give yourself credit for. I have dealt with the same simplistic beliefs about healing. What the “claim your healing” types tell you if you are not healed, is that you aren’t healed because your own faith is at fault. It’s not. A careful reading of the Gospels and the letters of Paul shows that God sometimes permits suffering to use it for a greater good. God bless you.
 
Seeker2013 said:
Holly,
I think your response was more nuanced and thoughtful than you give yourself credit for. I have dealt with the same simplistic beliefs about healing. What the “claim your healing” types tell you if you are not healed, is that you aren’t healed because your own faith is at fault. It’s not. A careful reading of the Gospels and the letters of Paul shows that God sometimes permits suffering to use it for a greater good. God bless you.
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Ah okay thank you Seeker. I appreciate this! 👍

That said, they didn’t say anything about my faith being too weak or anything but in a way I kind of get the feeling that it was implied when they said some people try to hang on to their suffering. Perhaps I am wrong there though.

Anyway, what else could I have said to convince them? I suppose I could have used the argument from Church history which would probably show that orthodox Christians never preached the “claim your healing” false doctrine until the time of the Pentecostals. I could be wrong about that though. There may very well be an ancient heresy where this was included. I think Montanism may have had similar teachings. From what I understand, modern Pentecostals hold some of the false and heretical teachings that the Montanists did.
 
Holly3278 said:
Hey everyone. I am friends with some Pentecostals who live in my apartment. They keep telling me that I can be healed if I just claim my healing. I don’t believe this. They also say that everyone is meant to be healed and that there are various obstacles which prevent people from being healed such as hanging on to their suffering.

Anyway, I told them that I don’t believe in “claiming” my healing. I told them that I believe that the Lord permits (but does not necessarily wants) people to suffer to allow a greater good to be brought out of it. I told them that if it was God’s will for everyone to be healed that there would be no more death and no more cancer among believers. I kind of halfway convinced them. I also told them how Saint Paul says in the Bible that he rejoices in his sufferings.

In addition, I told them that I want to suffer somewhat because I want to be able to offer it up to God so He can bring some sort of good out of it. Believe me, I am not perfect by any means. I am a sinner and I told them that. However they seem to insist that God wants me to be healed and that all I have to do is “claim” my healing.

How do I answer these things? Did I do a good job in what I told them because I’m honestly not sure.
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Your friends are right. God does NOT want anyone to suffer but he does bring good out of it. But suffering are still evils that Jesus came to conquer. Not once did Jesus say you “need to suffer” rather he healed everyone. There is a lot to be said about this subject and the whole Catholic/Christian world is in confusion about suffering. The Catholic Church is not is confusion and teaches the truth.
 
Nate123 said:
Your friends are right. God does NOT want anyone to suffer but he does bring good out of it. But suffering are still evils that Jesus came to conquer. Not once did Jesus say you “need to suffer” rather he healed everyone. There is a lot to be said about this subject and the whole Catholic/Christian world is in confusion about suffering. The Catholic Church is not is confusion and teaches the truth.
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Wait a second. Jesus Christ did not heal absolutely everyone. Were it His mission or part of His mission to heal everyone on earth, He would have done so while He walked this earth but He did not do so.

Also, you seem to think that suffering is evil. I would have to say that it is not necessarily evil. If it was evil then why do we have the doctrine of Redemptive Suffering in which we can offer up our suffering to our Heavenly Father in order for Him to bring about some greater good from it? If suffering is evil then why did some saints ask God to give them more suffering? I don’t really believe that God wants us to suffer but I do believe He permits us to suffer so that way He can bring about some greater good from it.
 
Next time you see them, lightly punch one them in the shoulder continuously. When they say stop, tell them “it’s not my fault! you have to claim the healing in your shoulder for me to stop.”

Yeah, it’s light-hearted, but it’s a way to get your point across nonetheless. 😛
 
drac16 said:
Next time you see them, lightly punch one them in the shoulder continuously. When they say stop, tell them “it’s not my fault! you have to claim the healing in your shoulder for me to stop.”

Yeah, it’s light-hearted, but it’s a way to get your point across nonetheless. 😛
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LOL! Nah, I’d rather not. :)😉
 
Holly3278 said:
Ah okay thank you Seeker. I appreciate this! 👍

That said, they didn’t say anything about my faith being too weak or anything but in a way I kind of get the feeling that it was implied when they said some people try to hang on to their suffering. Perhaps I am wrong there though.

Anyway, what else could I have said to convince them? I suppose I could have used the argument from Church history which would probably show that orthodox Christians never preached the “claim your healing” false doctrine until the time of the Pentecostals. I could be wrong about that though. There may very well be an ancient heresy where this was included. I think Montanism may have had similar teachings. From what I understand, modern Pentecostals hold some of the false and heretical teachings that the Montanists did.
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I’m not aware of Montanists teaching that God wants everyone healed. Montanists called their own movement “The New Prophecy” as they believed their New Prophets received new divine revelation that clarified/superseded (depending on your source) the doctrine taught by the Apostles. Incidentally, this has nothing to do with Pentecostals because while we believe in the contemporary gift of prophecy we also believe in Sola Scriptura.

The Name It Claim It/Blab It Grab It (what insiders call “positive confession”) strand of thought in Pentecostal/Word of Faith/Neo-charismatic churches actually only really dates back to 1950s America. We’re not the only ones. The Mainline Protestants had “positive thinking” as advocated by Norman Vincent Peale, a Methodist turned Reformed minister. Popular culture had its own varieties of pop-psychology.
 
Holly3278 said:
Wait a second. Jesus Christ did not heal absolutely everyone. Were it His mission or part of His mission to heal everyone on earth, He would have done so while He walked this earth but He did not do so.

Also, you seem to think that suffering is evil. I would have to say that it is not necessarily evil. If it was evil then why do we have the doctrine of Redemptive Suffering in which we can offer up our suffering to our Heavenly Father in order for Him to bring about some greater good from it? If suffering is evil then why did some saints ask God to give them more suffering? I don’t really believe that God wants us to suffer but I do believe He permits us to suffer so that way He can bring about some greater good from it.
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You said: “Wait a second. Jesus Christ did not heal absolutely everyone.”

I reply: I meant those that came to him for healings. He did not once say you “need to suffer.”

You said:" Were it His mission or part of His mission to heal everyone on earth, He would have done so while He walked this earth but He did not do so."

I reply: Actually it kinda was his mission but a far greater one than any physical healing (although physical healing are great too). He came to heal us in a way that no diminshment would remain. He came to conquer sin, suffering and death power to forever diminish us. This is only done by the redemption.

You said: “you seem to think that suffering is evil. I would have to say that it is not necessarily evil.”

I reply: When I say evil, I mean it is a lack of a good not a moral evil. Someone who suffers (all of us) is not somehow in the wrong. A lack of a good or privation. But in the end it is a evil.

“God is infinitely good and all his works are good. Yet no one can escape the experience of suffering… We must therefore approach the question of the origin of evil by fixing the eyes of our faith on him who alone is its conqueror.” (Catechism of the Catholic Church, 385)

“We could say that man suffers because of a good in which he does not share, from which in a certain sense he is cut off, or of which he has deprived himself. He particularly suffers when he ought"—in the normal order of things—to have a share in this good and does not have it.” (Pope John Paul II, Salvifici Doloris)

“Suffering is, in itself, an experience of evil.” (Pope John Paul II, Salifici Doloris)

You said: “If it was evil then why do we have the doctrine of Redemptive Suffering in which we can offer up our suffering to our Heavenly Father in order for Him to bring about some greater good from it?”

I reply: I do not deny the good that you see come from it. The truth is all suffering is redemptive suffering. The good is not itself the suffering. The good is that Jesus suffers with you. Then whatever you suffer, in union with him, is saving act of the world. Jesus has made your suffering the same as his.

You said: “If suffering is evil then why did some saints ask God to give them more suffering?”

I reply: It the same reason a friend jumps on a grenade to save the life of his friends. The want to take away other peoples suffering but we shouldn’t search for suffering… But in the end suffering is of no value. “Suffering is not a value in itself," Pope Francis. What is of value is that Jesus has made your suffering his.

You said: “He permits us to suffer so that way He can bring about some greater good from it”

I reply: God opposes all suffering and death with the fullness of his holiness. Permits means non-intervention but there is a reason he “permits” it. He does not “permit it for a greater good” for “The end does not justify the means.” (CCC 1759)

“God is infinitely good and all his works are good. Yet no one can escape the experience of suffering… We must therefore approach the question of the origin of evil by fixing the eyes of our faith on him who alone is its conqueror.” (Catechism of the Catholic Church, 385)
 
Holly3278 said:
Hey everyone. I am friends with some Pentecostals who live in my apartment. They keep telling me that I can be healed if I just claim my healing. I don’t believe this. They also say that everyone is meant to be healed and that there are various obstacles which prevent people from being healed such as hanging on to their suffering.

Anyway, I told them that I don’t believe in “claiming” my healing. I told them that I believe that the Lord permits (but does not necessarily wants) people to suffer to allow a greater good to be brought out of it. I told them that if it was God’s will for everyone to be healed that there would be no more death and no more cancer among believers. I kind of halfway convinced them. I also told them how Saint Paul says in the Bible that he rejoices in his sufferings.

In addition, I told them that I want to suffer somewhat because I want to be able to offer it up to God so He can bring some sort of good out of it. Believe me, I am not perfect by any means. I am a sinner and I told them that. However they seem to insist that God wants me to be healed and that all I have to do is “claim” my healing.

How do I answer these things? Did I do a good job in what I told them because I’m honestly not sure.
Click to expand...
You said: “They also say that everyone is meant to be healed and that there are various obstacles which prevent people from being healed such as hanging on to their suffering.”

I reply: They are correct. God wants to heal you. He can only do it if you let it go. Don’t worry your whole life is Redemptive suffering. When your in heaven you will learn that everything you went through was for everyone that go’s to heaven It is Jesus’s gift to you. You save the world with him. God has destined you to have his glory.

“I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.” (John 17 :22-2)
 
During Christ’s earthly ministry, I don’t know of anyone who “claimed” a healing from Him. All who sought healing / blessing / favor asked and accepted. No one claimed anything from the Lord with any sense of entitlement.

“Claiming” sounds selfish and seems like it’s presuming on God’s grace.
 
Miserissima said:
During Christ’s earthly ministry, I don’t know of anyone who “claimed” a healing from Him. All who sought healing / blessing / favor asked and accepted. No one claimed anything from the Lord with any sense of entitlement.

“Claiming” sounds selfish and seems like it’s presuming on God’s grace.
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The word “claimed” is used because according to Word of Faith theology, God has promised healing to those with faith. So, to them, it’s not presuming on God’s grace because, according to them, healing is a promise given in God’s Word that one can “claim” by faith.
 
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