Divine Liturgy without a homily

[BusterMartin]

So, I often attend a Ruthenian EC Church for Divine Liturgy. During one weekday DL in 2011 the priest did not give a homily after the Gospel. That was the first time I had ever experienced that, but I just assumed he either forgot or there was some exception for that day. I left it at that. Then I recently went to a Serbian Orthodox Church (old calendar) for DL on the feast of Saint Nicholas. There was also no homily. That really got me wondering. Now, in 2012, at the Vigil DL for the Theophany, that same Ruthenian EC priest didn’t give a homily after the Gospel. Is a homily something that is optional for Eastern priests?

 

[ByzCathCantor]

Distressing to hear this has been your experience. Although there is no strict requirement to homilize per se, it is certainly customary and encouraged. The Particular Norms of the Ruthenian Church specify only that a homily be given by either a bishop, priest or deacon.

Even if there is a small crowd for a weekday DL, a good priest will say at least a few words reflective of the lessons from the Epistle and Gospel readings of the day. I have been to weekday DLs where no homily is given, usually when attendance is limited to a small group of faithful in attendance for a specific personal intention.

I’m very surprised to hear there was no homily given this evening (Vigil of Theophany - a Great Feast of Our Lord and a day of precept for Ruthenians).

I cannot comment of custom of the Serbian Orthodox, but also find it surprising that no homily was given on the feast of the St. Nicholas, in particular.

Trying to give benefit of the doubt to the priests involved, it is possible they may have omitted the homily strictly for “parochial brevity” for the benefit of the faithful generally present (perhaps many of the parishioners are aging). Also, there are some priests handling multiple parishes, and they may be pressed for time to keep multiple schedules.

I can honestly say that in my entire life in the Ruthenian church, I’ve never been to a Sunday or feast day (Great, Solemn or Simple) where a homily was not given, long or short, so this is contrary to my experience.

Blessings!

 

[ConstantineTG]

One time I’m the only lay person in the parish and the Bishop still gave a homily.

It hasn’t happened in our parish that there was no homily.

 

[BusterMartin]

Trying to give benefit of the doubt to the priests involved, it is possible they may have omitted the homily strictly for “parochial brevity” for the benefit of the faithful generally present (perhaps many of the parishioners are aging). Also, there are some priests handling multiple parishes, and they may be pressed for time to keep multiple schedules.

I can honestly say that in my entire life in the Ruthenian church, I’ve never been to a Sunday or feast day (Great, Solemn or Simple) where a homily was not given, long or short, so this is contrary to my experience.

Blessings!

I’m going to guess it had to do with parochial brevity. He only handles that Church as far as I know. The parishioners aren’t’ that old (my Latin parish has a much older population), but Father did seem rushed during parts of the DL. I guess he was trying to speed things up for the benefit of those involved. I never understood that logic though - the people who were there last night at the vigil probably wanted to be there. As for the Serbian priest…it was a very long DL (even by Orthodox standards), so I assume parochial brevity was the reason. I just always assumed the homily was required…guess not. It’s a shame - a good homily can do so much for those listening (myself included).

 

[Volodymyr]

Sermon/Homely Проповедь Гомпелия

Usually a sermon (homely more often is given by a Bishop or is a famous statement repated for occasion) is given after liturgy, not during reading of Gospel. But at times if includes All Night Wakening, may be no such sermon, except at Bishop Liturgy.
But almost never directly following Evangile.

 

[BusterMartin]

Sermon/Homely Проповедь Гомпелия

Usually a sermon (homely more often is given by a Bishop or is a famous statement repated for occasion) is given after liturgy, not during reading of Gospel. But at times if includes All Night Wakening, may be no such sermon, except at Bishop Liturgy.
But almost never directly following Evangile.

I wonder - is that a Ukrainian Orthodox tradition generally? I ask because I go to both an OCA and Ruthenian EC Church on a regular basis and the homily is directly after the Gospel. In the OCA Church, though, there is also an additional sermon immediately after the DL.

 

[dcointin]

My priest, who is in the Antiochian Orthodox Church, somtimes ommits the sermon as well during week day liturgies. I’m not sure if a sermon at each Divine Liturgy is canonically prescribed. I’ve also seen this at other Orthodox parishes, so this certainly isn’t just an Eastern Catholic phenomenon.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

It could well be that the recitation of a sermon after the Gospel in Ruthenian practice is a “Latinization” (although I always use that term with some reluctance) that has stuck to this day, although I couldn’t say with absolute certainty.

I have been to Orthodox parishes were the sermon is given after Liturgy. In those parishes, people seem to spend a lot of time in and around the church on Sundays. It used to be amongst our people to be that Sundays were truly reserved for worship, and families, especially those tied to our ethnically and socially centered churches, would spend almost their entire Sunday at church. In that setting and in those days, the lesson (sermon) after the Liturgy could be rendered as a form of extended adult catechesis (with the kids going to their own lessons), without fear of losing the congregation to other commitments outside the church (e.g. soccer, football, baseball, etc.).

I do think there is a modern benefit to having the sermon given after the Gospel reading, but it would be nice to think that some day it may be possible to truly reserve Sunday for God and God alone.

 

[dcointin]

It could well be that the recitation of a sermon after the Gospel in Ruthenian practice is a “Latinization” (although I always use that term with some reluctance) that has stuck to this day, although I couldn’t say with absolute certainty.

I have been to Orthodox parishes were the sermon is given after Liturgy. In those parishes, people seem to spend a lot of time in and around the church on Sundays. It used to be amongst our people to be that Sundays were truly reserved for worship, and families, especially those tied to our ethnically and socially centered churches, would spend almost their entire Sunday at church. In that setting and in those days, the lesson (sermon) after the Liturgy could be rendered as a form of extended adult catechesis (with the kids going to their own lessons), without fear of losing the congregation to other commitments outside the church (e.g. soccer, football, baseball, etc.).

I do think there is a modern benefit to having the sermon given after the Gospel reading, but it would be nice to think that some day it may be possible to truly reserve Sunday for God and God alone.

I’ve been told by Orthodox priests that the reason the sermon is given after the liturgy in some parishes is because so many of the people show up after the sermon, and it’s a way to assure that they hear it. This is a huge problem in Orthodoxy, especially in more ethnic parishes. My priest once warned us that if you arrive after the creed, you were not to approach the chalice. Historically, the sermon has always come after the gospel as far as I know.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

I’ve been told by Orthodox priests that the reason the sermon is given after the liturgy in some parishes is because so many of the people show up after the sermon, and it’s a way to assure that they hear it. This is a huge problem in Orthodoxy, especially in more ethnic parishes. My priest once warned us that if you arrive after the creed, you were not to approach the chalice. Historically, the sermon has always come after the gospel as far as I know.

Wow - I’m saddened to hear that. Normally, we have everyone in seats in time for the Trisagion …

FWIW - I have been told by elders of the family that there was a fair amount of “custom” if you will for this practice in generations past. I’ll take this one up as a research project.

Meanwhile, I guess we’ll pray for an end to liturgical tardiness!

 

[ByzCathCantor]

My priest once warned us that if you arrive after the creed, you were not to approach the chalice. Historically, the sermon has always come after the gospel as far as I know.

BTW - I’m assuming this pronouncement was in line with the “theory” that one could miss the Liturgy of the Word but NOT the Anaphora in order to approach the Eucharist with some degree of propriety. Does that sound right? Make sense? [Mind you, I’m not advocating that at all - just asking out of curiosity …]

 

[A_G]

A homily is not required during regular daily Mass, but it is strongly recommended.

Usually a homily is delivered after the Gospel reading, and its general purpose is to tie the Gospel reading to our every day lives. It’s a speech that shows how the Gospel relates to us and our lives. It is required for Sundays and for Holy Days of Obligation.

I know this to be the case for the RC Church (and I would think the EC too), I can’t speak for the Eastern Orthodox churches.

 

[dcointin]

BTW - I’m assuming this pronouncement was in line with the “theory” that one could miss the Liturgy of the Word but NOT the Anaphora in order to approach the Eucharist with some degree of propriety. Does that sound right? Make sense? [Mind you, I’m not advocating that at all - just asking out of curiosity …]

That could very well be. It sounds like your parish is much better in this regard than mine! Does your parish offer Orthros (Matins) before Divine Liturgy?

 

[ByzCathCantor]

Does your parish offer Orthros (Matins) before Divine Liturgy?

Not yet, as our parish priest is splitting duty between two churches that are a decent distance apart. They do Sunday Matins at his other church. They also have a deacon there, so its easier to accomplish. We also have the later morning DL on Sunday at our parish, so it would be very challenging to attempt to schedule Matins at present.

We pray some day … !

 

[ByzCathCantor]

A homily is not required during regular daily Mass, but it is strongly recommended. I know this to be the case for the RC Church (and I would think the EC too), I can’t speak for the Eastern Orthodox churches.

Thanks so much for the RC perspective here - very helpful indeed!

I originally looked only at the Particular Norms of the Ruthenian Church, finding nothing definitive, but you prompted me to “word search” the CCEO. Indeed, we have a similar requirement embedded in the Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches:

Canon 614
§1. The homily, in which during the course of the liturgical year the mysteries of faith and the norms of Christian living are expounded from Sacred Scripture, is strongly recommended as part of the liturgy itself.

§2. Parish priests and rectors of churches have the obligation to take care that a homily is given at least during the Divine Liturgy on Sundays and feast days and that it is only omitted for a grave reason.

So, it looks as if Sunday and Holy Day sermons must be given in the Eastern Catholic Churches, as well.

 

[BusterMartin]

Thanks so much for the RC perspective here - very helpful indeed!

I originally looked only at the Particular Norms of the Ruthenian Church, finding nothing definitive, but you prompted me to “word search” the CCEO. Indeed, we have a similar requirement embedded in the Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches:

So, it looks as if Sunday and Holy Day sermons must be given in the Eastern Catholic Churches, as well.

So, from the Ruthenian EC perspective, wouldn’t the Feast of the Theopany qualify for a homily (aside from grave reason, of course)? I know that often the Eastern Churches aren’t sticklers on some rules (nothing derogatory meant here), but assuming they were then shouldn’t yesterday’s Theophany Vigil have had a homily?

 

[ByzCathCantor]

So, from the Ruthenian EC perspective, wouldn’t the Feast of the Theopany qualify for a homily (aside from grave reason, of course)? I know that often the Eastern Churches aren’t sticklers on some rules (nothing derogatory meant here), but assuming they were then shouldn’t yesterday’s Theophany Vigil have had a homily?

No offense taken, and it appears that you are indeed correct on the homily!

As for adherence to rules of the EC churches, I can only speak to my experience in the Ruthenian church, and we are generally “traditionalist” IMHO - but that often depends on one’s starting point and perspective.

In fairness, I think the observation is dependent on the subject matter. For example, the full Rites of Initiation were reinstituted some years back (just in time for the birth of my first child). While full immersion baptism is strongly encouraged, it is not yet the norm in many places.

Oddly enough, first time I saw it done after full Initiation was reinstituted, my niece was baptised in my former home parish by a bi-ritual priest who was then pastor. He went “by the book” and dunked her head-to-toe without hesitation, much to the shock and surprise of my “cradle Byzantine” sister-in-law.

So far, that’s the only time I’ve seen it done, and by a bi-ritual priest no less!

I do think the “discrepancies” mostly and ironically creep in with regard to reinstituted practices. Sometimes, replanting an uprooted shrub requires great patience, skill and care on the part of the gardener to ensure the roots take hold again …

 

[BusterMartin]

Great story about the baptism! Thanks to all for your (name removed by moderator)ut on this, by the way!