Divine Liturgy without People

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Is it permissible for a Byzantine Priest to say a Divine Liturgy in private without the laity? I understand this may not be ideal, but is it still allowed?
 
smad0142 said:
Is it permissible for a Byzantine Priest to say a Divine Liturgy in private without the laity? I understand this may not be ideal, but is it still allowed?
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It’s not typically permitted within parishes. It has been known to happen in monastic communities among recluses. St. Seraphim of Sarov and, I believe, St. Theophan the Recluse both celebrated daily Divine Liturgy “alone with the angels” during the time of their reclusion. But again, this was in a monastic setting. I don’t know that parish priests would be extended that exception.
 
Phillip_Rolfes said:
It’s not typically permitted within parishes. It has been known to happen in monastic communities among recluses. St. Seraphim of Sarov and, I believe, St. Theophan the Recluse both celebrated daily Divine Liturgy “alone with the angels” during the time of their reclusion. But again, this was in a monastic setting. I don’t know that parish priests would be extended that exception.
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Ours do so, I heard. I mean, I wouldn’t know, I wasn’t there :D:D:D

But if there is a regularly scheduled Liturgy and nobody showed up, then the Liturgy must go on.
 
ConstantineTG said:
Ours do so, I heard. I mean, I wouldn’t know, I wasn’t there :D:D:D

But if there is a regularly scheduled Liturgy and nobody showed up, then the Liturgy must go on.
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I’d imagine that there is a certain prescribed way of doing so, rite? (Pun-intended. I’m hilarious, and I hope you understand that)
 
ConstantineTG said:
Ours do so, I heard. I mean, I wouldn’t know, I wasn’t there :D:D:D

But if there is a regularly scheduled Liturgy and nobody showed up, then the Liturgy must go on.
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I was taught, when I was with the Ruthenians, that there cannot be (or should not be) a liturgy without a congregation.

The Cantor would suffice, probably, but the priest should not serve by himself. Someone is needed to do the responses. Even hermits would make ways to gather for liturgy at least some of the time if not most of the time.

This is why there was no parallel development of the ‘Chantry Priest’ in the east as in the west. Such priests had no congregation, did not hear confessions or perform some other duties one would normally expect from a priest. Some were illiterate, these men were ordained strictly for the purpose of churning out votive masses multiple times per day for departed wealthy donors who would leave an endowment for the purpose. The sponsors were buying prayers for their souls and the monasteries were happy with the endowments.

Unfortunately, worship done in this manner day after day and year after year by the same persons in private can lead to a perfunctory and insincere repetition, and breed skepticism and doubts in the minds of the clergy involved. The eastern churches have avoided this problem to some extent.

The Chantry, if memory serves, is no longer allowed in the west, it was widely considered an abuse. Daily Mass is still normally required for western Catholic priests, and if no public mass is scheduled they will do it privately, but the preference would be in public so the situation is not the same. Concelebration is also allowed now in the west (in the recent past this was not an option), so priests can always go out and help celebrate at a parish and fill this obligation publicly if they have the scheduled time slot free.
 
The Divine Liturgy is a work to restore God’s will in our life, and this work is performed by the priest and the faithful. All the believers are actively involved in the Divine Liturgy by being involved in the acts and words of the Divine Liturgy, as represented by the priest and the sacred chanters, since practically it is not possible any other way. It is characteristic that the Orthodox priest never celebrates the Divine Liturgy alone, individually, but only in service to the Church, as a leader and representative of the congregation of believers.
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source: St. George Antiochian Orthodox Church - Altoona, PA - parish website

Albeit from an Antiochian Orthodox source, it is understood to be a general tenet of worship in the churches of the Byzantine Rite, Orthodox and Catholic alike.
 
Hesychios said:
I was taught, when I was with the Ruthenians, that there cannot be (or should not be) a liturgy without a congregation.

The Cantor would suffice, probably, but the priest should not serve by himself. Someone is needed to do the responses. Even hermits would make ways to gather for liturgy at least some of the time if not most of the time.
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That is still the case. When I show up (usually first) for a weekday DL, our priest will usually always greet me by saying “well now we have a quorum”, after the customary “Slava Isusu Christu” (or other appropriate festal substitute).
 
Hesychios said:
I was taught, when I was with the Ruthenians, that there cannot be (or should not be) a liturgy without a congregation.

The Cantor would suffice, probably, but the priest should not serve by himself. Someone is needed to do the responses. Even hermits would make ways to gather for liturgy at least some of the time if not most of the time.

This is why there was no parallel development of the ‘Chantry Priest’ in the east as in the west. Such priests had no congregation, did not hear confessions or perform some other duties one would normally expect from a priest. Some were illiterate, these men were ordained strictly for the purpose of churning out votive masses multiple times per day for departed wealthy donors who would leave an endowment for the purpose. The sponsors were buying prayers for their souls and the monasteries were happy with the endowments.

Unfortunately, worship done in this manner day after day and year after year by the same persons in private can lead to a perfunctory and insincere repetition, and breed skepticism and doubts in the minds of the clergy involved. The eastern churches have avoided this problem to some extent.

The Chantry, if memory serves, is no longer allowed in the west, it was widely considered an abuse. Daily Mass is still normally required for western Catholic priests, and if no public mass is scheduled they will do it privately, but the preference would be in public so the situation is not the same. Concelebration is also allowed now in the west (in the recent past this was not an option), so priests can always go out and help celebrate at a parish and fill this obligation publicly if they have the scheduled time slot free.
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To be fair to our priests, they never say the Liturgy with the intention of doing it alone. Sometimes the few who show up during the week may just be late, so he starts the Liturgy anyway.

One time I showed up for a Feast and it was just me and on the altar, the bishop and two priests.
 
How grave a liturgical abuse is this? Is it mentioned in the CCEO?
 
ConstantineTG said:
There is no such thing.
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… as a grave liturgical abuse, or mention of this matter in the CCEO? 😃

If the latter, I would concur - this is not a matter that seems to be covered expressely in Canon Law (other than inferentially, as we are expected to preserve the patrimony of our particular churches), nor in the Norms of Particular Law of the Ruthenian Church (with which I am more familiar than those of other particular churches).

That said, I am told this is a general tenet of liturgical worship in the Byzantine tradition. Our current parish priest spent many years teaching in the seminary, and I would assume he is quite knowledgeable and “orthodox” in approach when it comes to such matters. I do not think he would celebrate a Divine Liturgy without a single additional member of the faithful present, and he has alluded to this on more than one occasion. He has even asked if I was willing to stay and celebrate with him when it became apparent that no one else would show up (including those whom had requested the DL for their personal intentions).

FWIW - as suggested in the quote I had posted earlier, if one examines the text of the Divine Liturgy, it is clear that it is presumed that more than one person is present and participating.
 
ByzCathCantor said:
… as a grave liturgical abuse, or mention of this matter in the CCEO? 😃

If the latter, I would concur - this is not a matter that seems to be covered expressely in Canon Law (other than inferentially, as we are expected to preserve the patrimony of our particular churches), nor in the Norms of Particular Law of the Ruthenian Church (with which I am more familiar than those of other particular churches).

That said, I am told this is a general tenet of liturgical worship in the Byzantine tradition. Our current parish priest spent many years teaching in the seminary, and I would assume he is quite knowledgeable and “orthodox” in approach when it comes to such matters. I do not think he would celebrate a Divine Liturgy without a single additional member of the faithful present, and he has alluded to this on more than one occasion. He has even asked if I was willing to stay and celebrate with him when it became apparent that no one else would show up (including those whom had requested the DL for their personal intentions).

FWIW - as suggested in the quote I had posted earlier, if one examines the text of the Divine Liturgy, it is clear that it is presumed that more than one person is present and participating.
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Well, like I said it is never the intention in our Eparchy to celebrate the DL without the people. The problem only is if no one shows up, then what? The priest just walks out? Its a tricky situation. I’m pretty sure the clergy hopes that there’d be people present everyday.
 
AFAIK, there is no “obligation” for Eastern or Oriental priests to offer the Holy Sacrifice daily. The closest is CCEO canon 378, but that is a recommendation rather than a specific requirement.

In the case of a scheduled weekday service where no one besides the priest shows up, I personally know several Maronite priests who, after waiting 10 minutes, simply extinguished the candles and went back to the rectory.

OTOH, I also personally know several priests (including at least one bishop and more than one canon lawyers) who, of their own volition, will do a so-called “private Mass” (i.e. absent even one server) for a variety of personal reasons. 🤷
 
ConstantineTG said:
Well, like I said it is never the intention in our Eparchy to celebrate the DL without the people. The problem only is if no one shows up, then what? The priest just walks out? Its a tricky situation. I’m pretty sure the clergy hopes that there’d be people present everyday.
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What I’ve been told by priests is, yes. If they say the first line (Blessed is the kingdom…) and don’t get the “Amen” in reply, they can and should pack up.
 
Wouldn’t daily Divine Liturgy in an ordinary parish be an innovation? The norm would be in the Eastern Churches for parish priests to be married. Daily Divine Liturgy is offered in monasteries without much concern because those priests are celibate and in a community so neither abstaining from marital relations nor being assured of a second person present for Liturgy should be an issue in a monastery.
 
malphono said:
AFAIK, there is no “obligation” for Eastern or Oriental priests to offer the Holy Sacrifice daily. The closest is CCEO canon 378, but that is a recommendation rather than a specific requirement.

In the case of a scheduled weekday service where no one besides the priest shows up, I personally know several Maronite priests who, after waiting 10 minutes, simply extinguished the candles and went back to the rectory.

OTOH, I also personally know several priests (including at least one bishop and more than one canon lawyers) who, of their own volition, will do a so-called “private Mass” (i.e. absent even one server) for a variety of personal reasons. 🤷
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Syro-Maronite Clergy?
 
I have no idea how common it is, but I’ve spoken with at least one Basilian Father, who frequently say’s Divine Liturgy in the early morning hours in an empty chuch.
 
Seamus_L said:
I have no idea how common it is, but I’ve spoken with at least one Basilian Father, who frequently say’s Divine Liturgy in the early morning hours in an empty chuch.
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Would he be Ukrainian?
 
5Loaves said:
Wouldn’t daily Divine Liturgy in an ordinary parish be an innovation? The norm would be in the Eastern Churches for parish priests to be married. Daily Divine Liturgy is offered in monasteries without much concern because those priests are celibate and in a community so neither abstaining from marital relations nor being assured of a second person present for Liturgy should be an issue in a monastery.
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Do you assume that the universal practice, until whatever time this putative “innovation” occurred, was one married priest per parish? Do you think that monastics did not - or should not - have daily liturgy? How about daily services like matins/vespers? Just trying to understand: what is your point?
 
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