Divine Mercy Diary question

[Alex_D]

**
58+ Notebook 1**

One night, a sister who had died two months previously came to me. She was a sister of the first choir. I saw her in a terrible condition, all in flames with her face painfully distorted. This lasted only a short time, and then she disappeared. A shudder went through my soul because I did not know whether she was suffering in purgatory or in hell. Nevertheless I redoubled my prayers for her. The next night she came again, but I saw her in an even more horrible state, in the midst of flames which were even more intense, and despair was written all over her face. I was astonished to see her in a worse condition after the prayers I had offered for her, and I asked, “Haven’t my prayers helped you?” She answered that my prayers had not helped her and that nothing would help her. I said to her, “And the prayers which been any help to you?” She said no, that these prayers had helped some other souls. I replied, “If my prayers are not helping you, Sister, please stop coming to me.” She disappeared at once. Despite this, I kept on praying.

After some time she came back again to me during the night, but already her appearance had changed. There were no longer any flames, as there had been before, and her face was radiant, her eyes beaming with joy. She told me that I had a true love for my neighbour and that many other souls had profited from my prayers. She urged me not to cease praying for the souls in purgatory, and she added that she herself would not remain there much longer. How astounding are the decrees of God!

Questions
After the sister offered more prayers for this other sister that was in hell or purgatory why did that sister come back in an “a worse condition after the prayers I had offered for her”??

Why would she say this “If my prayers are not helping you, Sister, please stop coming to me." She disappeared at once. Despite this, I kept on praying”

Why were her prayers helping other souls when she never prayed for them???.

If she was told to not to pray for her and that her prayers were making the sister in purgatory worse why did she get out of purgatory???

And how do I know this woman (sister) really saw Jesus and other things??? And that she is not a nuttier case

 

[paperwight]

**
58+ Notebook 1**

I did not know whether she was suffering in purgatory or in hell. Nevertheless I redoubled my prayers for her. The next night she came again, but I saw her in an even more horrible state, in the midst of flames which were even more intense, and despair was written all over her face. … She urged me not to cease praying for the souls in purgatory, and she added that she herself would not remain there much longer. How astounding are the decrees of God!

I find a difficulty with that passage, too.

How can the Sister have been in despair? She was in purgatory, not Hell, her salvation was assured.

 

[Monica4316]

St Faustina’s book is approved by the Church. That’s 'how we know it’s alright for us to believe it.

I personally believe it.

Only God knows the reason why the sister in purgatory got worse at first (although later on, she did get better). Maybe she needed to be there for a time. Maybe it was God’s will. And the Church actually teaches that our prayers for a soul in purgatory can benefit other souls there as well - for example, if someone offers Mass for a person they think is in purgatory but they’re actually in Heaven, the Mass benefits others in purgatory.

 

[garysibio]

If the nun in question was not and could not be helped by Sr. Faustina’s prayers, she was not in Purgatory. She must have been in Hell.

 

[Monica4316]

After some time she came back again to me during the night, but already her appearance had changed. There were no longer any flames, as there had been before, and her face was radiant, her eyes beaming with joy. She told me that I had a true love for my neighbour and that many other souls had profited from my prayers. She urged me not to cease praying for the souls in purgatory, and she added that she herself would not remain there much longer. How astounding are the decrees of God!

she was in purgatory…

once a person is in hell, they’re always in hell…

maybe God didn’t let St Faustina’s prayers help her at first cause He wanted to teach St Faustina about perseverence in prayer and maybe the sister needed to experience purgatory too. We don’t know God’s will.

 

[Lainey63]

Well here’s my two cents…while we are here on earth and we go through “growth spurts”…many times it hurts a lot and while we are going through this growth we are in mental anguish and at times we get discouraged or feel dispair and wonder when this is going to end. Anyway if purgatory is a purification it is a purifying “fire” then wouldn’t it make sense that after she prayed for the sister the fire would intensify to speed up the purification? Just like the artistans who make vases or steel the only way to shape these things is through fire and the heat has to be pretty intense to get the desired affect. Fire does hurt! Also, I think the sister’s feature were distorted and feeling the way she was feeling because first: she was in the presence of God-then she was sent away. The intense longing for God is overwhelming, to not be in His Presence is torture. It’s like waiting to be with someone you love who perhaps is overseas…but very much intensified. Besides purgatory has to hurt alot and we don’t like pain…or at least I don’t.

 

[The_Catholic]

Well here’s my two cents…while we are here on earth and we go through “growth spurts”…many times it hurts a lot and while we are going through this growth we are in mental anguish and at times we get discouraged or feel dispair and wonder when this is going to end. Anyway if purgatory is a purification it is a purifying “fire” then wouldn’t it make sense that after she prayed for the sister the fire would intensify to speed up the purification? Just like the artistans who make vases or steel the only way to shape these things is through fire and the heat has to be pretty intense to get the desired affect. Fire does hurt! Also, I think the sister’s feature were distorted and feeling the way she was feeling because first: she was in the presence of God-then she was sent away. The intense longing for God is overwhelming, to not be in His Presence is torture. It’s like waiting to be with someone you love who perhaps is overseas…but very much intensified. Besides purgatory has to hurt alot and we don’t like pain…or at least I don’t.

Curious, are you saying the “sister” suffering in Purgatory was at one point in the Presence of God and then got cast to Purgatory to be “purified?” And the “mental” anguish was her “flames” of suffering from not being with Him?

 

[garysibio]

she was in purgatory…

once a person is in hell, they’re always in hell…

maybe God didn’t let St Faustina’s prayers help her at first cause He wanted to teach St Faustina about perseverence in prayer and maybe the sister needed to experience purgatory too. We don’t know God’s will.

After some time she came back again to me during the night, but already her appearance had changed. There were no longer any flames, as there had been before, and her face was radiant, her eyes beaming with joy. She told me that I had a true love for my neighbour and that many other souls had profited from my prayers. She urged me not to cease praying for the souls in purgatory, and she added that she herself would not remain there much longer. How astounding are the decrees of God! <<

I wasn’t aware of this. It certainly does change my view of the previously quoted passage.

Gary

 

[garysibio]

Well here’s my two cents…while we are here on earth and we go through “growth spurts”…many times it hurts a lot and while we are going through this growth we are in mental anguish and at times we get discouraged or feel dispair and wonder when this is going to end. Anyway if purgatory is a purification it is a purifying “fire” then wouldn’t it make sense that after she prayed for the sister the fire would intensify to speed up the purification? Just like the artistans who make vases or steel the only way to shape these things is through fire and the heat has to be pretty intense to get the desired affect. Fire does hurt! Also, I think the sister’s feature were distorted and feeling the way she was feeling because first: she was in the presence of God-then she was sent away. The intense longing for God is overwhelming, to not be in His Presence is torture. It’s like waiting to be with someone you love who perhaps is overseas…but very much intensified. Besides purgatory has to hurt alot and we don’t like pain…or at least I don’t.

I’m not saying you’re wrong but we really don’t know if there is literal fire in Purgatory, or Hell for that matter. The Church doesn’t even teach dogmatically that Purgatory is a place; it’s called a state. We also know that, after the final judgment, Purgatory will cease to exist.

Heaven, Hell and Purgatory might be outside of the material universe which would mean that the fire there might not be literal fire as we know it. I have a feeling it will be worse. Of course the souls in Purgatory know that it is not a permanent state. They will see Jesus sooner or later.

Gary

 

[Lainey63]

Curious, are you saying the “sister” suffering in Purgatory was at one point in the Presence of God and then got cast to Purgatory to be “purified?” And the “mental” anguish was her “flames” of suffering from not being with Him?

I have heard or read that when you die, you go before Jesus and you feel the Perfect Love of God for you and you do not want to leave His Presence. You are also judged at this point and sent to either purgatory or to hell, unless I guess you are a child. Also, my mother had a near-death experience when she was 7 years old and she said she was in the presence of Jesus and experienced that Perfect Love also I believe that I read it in an old catholic book that my grandmother had years ago. I really don’t know for sure where I picked that up

 

[Lainey63]

I’m not saying you’re wrong but we really don’t know if there is literal fire in Purgatory, or Hell for that matter. The Church doesn’t even teach dogmatically that Purgatory is a place; it’s called a state. We also know that, after the final judgment, Purgatory will cease to exist.

Heaven, Hell and Purgatory might be outside of the material universe which would mean that the fire there might not be literal fire as we know it. I have a feeling it will be worse. Of course the souls in Purgatory know that it is not a permanent state. They will see Jesus sooner or later.
Gary

Yes, I agree purgatory is a state…everytime I have gone through a conversion there is pain involved. Not physical, but it’s an interior pain. Mother Angelica had spoken of this once and she called in purgatorial pains. However, my way of thinking may be a little off, but here it is…yes even though they do know they will see Jesus sooner or later…waiting is still very hard and if we do not know how to wait well; then that is one of our character defects that are being purified in purgatory.

 

[Anlar]

**
58+ Notebook 1**

One night, a sister who had died two months previously came to me. She was a sister of the first choir. I saw her in a terrible condition, all in flames with her face painfully distorted. This lasted only a short time, and then she disappeared. A shudder went through my soul because I did not know whether she was suffering in purgatory or in hell. Nevertheless I redoubled my prayers for her. The next night she came again, but I saw her in an even more horrible state, in the midst of flames which were even more intense, and despair was written all over her face. I was astonished to see her in a worse condition after the prayers I had offered for her, and I asked, “Haven’t my prayers helped you?” She answered that my prayers had not helped her and that nothing would help her. I said to her, “And the prayers which been any help to you?” She said no, that these prayers had helped some other souls. I replied, “If my prayers are not helping you, Sister, please stop coming to me.” She disappeared at once. Despite this, I kept on praying.

After some time she came back again to me during the night, but already her appearance had changed. There were no longer any flames, as there had been before, and her face was radiant, her eyes beaming with joy. She told me that I had a true love for my neighbour and that many other souls had profited from my prayers. She urged me not to cease praying for the souls in purgatory, and she added that she herself would not remain there much longer. How astounding are the decrees of God!

Questions

After the sister offered more prayers for this other sister that was in hell or purgatory why did that sister come back in an “a worse condition after the prayers I had offered for her”??

God’s will

Why would she say this “If my prayers are not helping you, Sister, please stop coming to me." She disappeared at once. Despite this, I kept on praying”

When St. Faustina asked her, “Haven’t my prayers helped you?” She answered that my prayers had not helped her and that nothing would help her. St. Faustina said to her, “And the prayers which been any help to you?” **She said no, that these prayers had helped some other souls. **

That’s why St. Faustina make that kind of reply.

Why were her prayers helping other souls when she never prayed for them???.If she was told to not to pray for her and that her prayers were making the sister in purgatory worse why did she get out of purgatory???

Other parts of the diary said that it is always God’s will.

And how do I know this woman (sister) really saw Jesus and other things??? And that she is not a nuttier case

The Church approved this so we believe. And it is God’s will that this will be approved so that everyone will believe that what had taken place is true.

**How astounding are the decrees of God! **

 

[Monica4316]

Well here’s my two cents…while we are here on earth and we go through “growth spurts”…many times it hurts a lot and while we are going through this growth we are in mental anguish and at times we get discouraged or feel dispair and wonder when this is going to end. ** Anyway if purgatory is a purification it is a purifying “fire” then wouldn’t it make sense that after she prayed for the sister the fire would intensify to speed up the purification? **Just like the artistans who make vases or steel the only way to shape these things is through fire and the heat has to be pretty intense to get the desired affect. Fire does hurt! Also, I think the sister’s feature were distorted and feeling the way she was feeling because first: she was in the presence of God-then she was sent away. The intense longing for God is overwhelming, to not be in His Presence is torture. It’s like waiting to be with someone you love who perhaps is overseas…but very much intensified. Besides purgatory has to hurt alot and we don’t like pain…or at least I don’t.

good point!

 

[The_Catholic]

I have heard or read that when you die, you go before Jesus and you feel the Perfect Love of God for you and you do not want to leave His Presence. You are also judged at this point and sent to either purgatory or to hell, unless I guess you are a child. Also, my mother had a near-death experience when she was 7 years old and she said she was in the presence of Jesus and experienced that Perfect Love also I believe that I read it in an old catholic book that my grandmother had years ago. I really don’t know for sure where I picked that up

Oh dear Lord how painful indeed!!! I can just imagine it, and want to weep now!!

The only thing I disagree on is for the one who is going to be eternally seperated from God. I don’t think those people would want to enter His Kingdom anyway. Why would they? If they would not want to cast away their sins, why would they care to live with God knowing He hates the style of life they still want to live in?

I believe those who go to purgatory will feel it AND desire it—and THAT’S what will make the “purification” process so dreadfully painful :’(

 

[caeli0]

[SIGN]The Church approved this so we believe. And it is God’s will that this will be approved so that everyone will believe that what had taken place is true.[/SIGN]

I am a little confused as to what is meant by “approved”. What is meant by approval is it is free from doctrinal error. We are not held to a state of heresy should one question this, truly?

 

[garysibio]

The Church approved this so we believe. And it is God’s will that this will be approved so that everyone will believe that what had taken place is true.

Has the Church specifically approved the diary? I know about it having been forbidden due to a bad translation and that being lifted but has it specifically been declared worthy of belief? I understand that Sr. Faustina has been canonized but that does not necessarily mean her diary has been approved. If it has been, do you have a reference?

I’m not doubting you. I just have never heard this before.

Gary

 

[Lainey63]

Oh dear Lord how painful indeed!!! I can just imagine it, and want to weep now!!

The only thing I disagree on is for the one who is going to be eternally seperated from God. I don’t think those people would want to enter His Kingdom anyway. Why would they? If they would not want to cast away their sins, why would they care to live with God knowing He hates the style of life they still want to live in?

I believe those who go to purgatory will feel it AND desire it—and THAT’S what will make the “purification” process so dreadfully painful :’(

That’s what I was trying to say…The longing & yearning for God is what the Holy Souls endure.But it is the intensity of the longing & yearning to be completely united to God and the intense desire to “Behold the Face of God”. Such as we read in the Psalms. I have also read the God has a special love for the Holy Souls. I guess I need to take some writing courses or communication skills…I wasn’t talking about those condemned to hell at all. Sorry for the misunderstanding

 

[Snerticus]

Questions
After the sister offered more prayers for this other sister that was in hell or purgatory why did that sister come back in an “a worse condition after the prayers I had offered for her”??

Perhaps because other souls needed the prayers more than her. Or perhaps Sr. Faustina needed to be encouraged to pray harder. Or perhaps Sr. Faustina needed to demonstrate perserverance. In any case, there are a number of possibilities.

Why would she say this “If my prayers are not helping you, Sister, please stop coming to me." She disappeared at once. Despite this, I kept on praying”

She kept praying because one does not just give up. It says in the Bible to fight the good fight. To persevere, to run the full course of the race. That’s why she kept praying. If in time the sister kept getting worse and worse, then perhaps eventually she would have stopped. But not necessarily. Because Sr. Faustina knew that prayers are never given in vain. Also, there was a good chance Sr. Faustina thought she was being tested.

Why were her prayers helping other souls when she never prayed for them???.

This one is easy. When we pray to someone who doesn’t need them, say, perhaps because they’re already in heaven or in hell, then God applies our prayers to whomever He sees fit. Even if we don’t know who those souls are. It stands to reason then, if this particular sister was not helped by Sr. Faustina’s prayers, then they must have helped someone else.

If she was told to not to pray for her and that her prayers were making the sister in purgatory worse why did she get out of purgatory???

Because obviously at some point, the prayers did start to help.

And how do I know this woman (sister) really saw Jesus and other things??? And that she is not a nuttier case

For the same reason all of the other cannonized saints and their accompanying visions etc… are accepted by the Church.

 

[mikee]

And how do I know this woman (sister) really saw Jesus and other things??? And that she is not a nuttier case

Her superiors and confessor were skeptical of her experiences and she was even submitted to a psychological examination at one point. In the end she was given a clean bill of health.

 

[Anlar]

For the same reason all of the other cannonized saints and their accompanying visions etc… are accepted by the Church.