Divine Mercy vs Justice

  • Thread starter Thread starter cfernandomaciel
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
C

cfernandomaciel

Guest
I have a hard time explaining about the mercy of God to my wife, whom is an agnostic.

She fails to understand the necessity of acknowledging Jesus Christ in order to receive His mercy. She says that if He is merciful, then He knows her heart, as well as her needs.

She is a very good woman. I’ve never seen anybody around me which is so engaged in charity and in providing for the needed. But she fails to acknowledge that part, which we need to accept Jesus.

I have a real hard time in explaining things. I’m even at this very moment failing to explain the situation to you guys. So, I cannot give her a decent answer which will help her understand the whole accepting Jesus into our lives, in order for His mercy to take place.

Can you help me with this one?
 
We have free will, and God has designed things so that we will be drawn to him in love and never coerced. He can’t give us what we don’t want, and he equally can’t give us his bounty unless we come to him in humility.
But those who ask get mercy in abundance.
 
Faith cannot be given, only the Holy Spirit can move a person to the truth. Pray for your wife and be an example of peace and joy. She will accept Jesus when she is ready.
 
I am not recommending you actually do what I am about to say, but your marriage is a good comparison of the relationship to Christ.

I would kindly and lovingly have her consider how she would feel if you were to say well she is my wife. She knows I love her that’s why I married her. Why do I need to tell her or show her how important she is to me. Imagine you drop your diner plate on the kitchen floor and say oops sorry, then head back to the couch to finish the football game. After all she knows you hate to clean and that is what you need right now.

Another thing you could point out is most people only think of the first definition of mercy which is compassion or forgiveness shown toward someone whom it is within one’s power to punish or harm. They tend to ignore the fact that Jesus Christ is also just, so sometimes mercy can mean a lengthy imprisonment rather than imposing the death penalty. Sometimes God’s Mercy can be letting us suffer to help us learn our lesson or to help us draw closer to him.

Yes Jesus is merciful and He knows our heart as well as our needs. But like St. Augustine said our heart is restless until it finds rest in Thee.

On a final note. You stated she was agnostic, which I understand to mean she doesn’t deny their is a God but she sees no good evidence for God. Is this correct? If so just ask her is she is open to learning more? In my mind if she thinks there is any possibility she might be spending eternity with God wouldn’t she at least want to try and understand Him a little bit more?

Hope this helps,

God Bless
 
Divine mercy is more like Forgiveness and Tolerance while Justice is what they Deserve for their misdeeds. Once they see the error of their ways is Justice still needed? Or could we go with Mercy?
 
Thanks, @MT1926 for the comparison. It really helps me in finding new ways of providing examples to her. She does ask me a lot about these things. But as soon as I start getting excited that she is interested in the topic, she says that it’s only to understand more the way of my thinking, which is quite frustrating.

She is very loving, and I’m a revert to Catholicism. We are going through a convalidation process in the Church. She never denied anything, she is taking RCIA classes with me, and said that it’s because it’s important for me, and she’d marry me again and again in any church out there in the world, because she loves me.

I guess it’s all about time, and as @Dan_Defender has mentioned in his response: I just need to be patient, and become an example, and the Holly Spirit will guide her. He has guided me after all, I had been an atheist for many many years. 😉
 
cfernandomaciel said:
But as soon as I start getting excited that she is interested in the topic, she says that it’s only to understand more the way of my thinking, which is quite frustrating.
Click to expand...
Her wanting to talk is great. You need to slow down though. You mention you are a revert, you should concentrate on your own spiritual journey and just be happy that she loves you so much that she is willing to come along for the ride.

Couple of thoughts came to mind after your response. I would start listening to the show or podcast “Called to Communion” with Dr. David Anders. He will often speak about one spouse converting. You could even download the podcast and get in the habit of listening to it in the car, maybe your wife will listen when she is in the car with you. You can get info on him at calvin2catholic.com

He also wrote a book “The Catholic Church Saved My Marriage”. I haven’t read it yet but I know that when he converted his wife was bitter and outright opposed to his conversion, so there might be some insight in there.

Another person to look into would be Dr. Scott Hahn, when he converted his wife, a Presbyterian ministers daughter was also opposed. He has info at stpaulcenter.com

Also I think his book Rome Sweet Rome, which I haven’t gotten to yet either, not enough time in the day, speaks about his and his wife’s journeys to the Catholic Faith.
cfernandomaciel said:
I guess it’s all about time, and as @Dan_Defender has mentioned in his response: I just need to be patient, and become an example, and the Holly Spirit will guide her. He has guided me after all, I had been an atheist for many many years. 😉
Click to expand...
AMEN. Well said @Dan_Defender.
 
cfernandomaciel said:
I’ve never seen anybody around me which is so engaged in charity and in providing for the needed.
Click to expand...
It seems to me that the spirit of God is well at work within her. As for the mercy, there is another way of looking at this. If she has a hard time with it, try having her look at it this way; we are not bad people in need of mercy, but immature people in need of maturing guidance.

I have a hard time with the constant pleas for mercy myself, though it’s not a major issue. I like a story the late Marcus Borg told of a Buddhist friend of his who once said; “You Christians must be very bad people. You’re constantly begging for mercy”. It’s worth thinking about but I don’t lose any sleep over it.
 
Your thread title does not seem to really match the actual body of your thread.

However, I’m going to post a video that does directly address Mercy vs Justice from Bishop Robert Barron.

 
Thank you very much for providing that video, @phil19034! I’m watch it now.
phil19034 said:
Your thread title does not seem to really match the actual body of your thread.
Click to expand...
Divine Mercy vs Justice: because my wife, being an agnostic, only sees the whole thing coming from the perspective of Divine Mercy, but not Justice. She fails to see how God’s mercy operates in our lives.
 
Thank you for your invaluable insights, @CelticWarlord!
CelticWarlord said:
I have a hard time with the constant pleas for mercy myself, though it’s not a major issue.
Click to expand...
I know exactly what you are coming from. I’m too just like that. But if you can, besides the great examples you gave following:
CelticWarlord said:
Marcus Borg told of a Buddhist friend of his who once said; “You Christians must be very bad people. You’re constantly begging for mercy”
Click to expand...
What are we then supposed to do? What’s the state of mind/spirit a Christian should have then? As I have previously explained, I’m a revert to Catholicism, I’m still learning many aspects.

Thanks again!
 
Awesome podcasts and book indications, @MT1926!

I’m see them all 😀
MT1926 said:
You need to slow down though. You mention you are a revert, you should concentrate on your own spiritual journey and just be happy that she loves you so much that she is willing to come along for the ride.
Click to expand...
That is a great point! I guess, I’m going just too fast, and it should be all about the Holy Ghost doing His work inside her heart, for there is nothing really I could do that would convince her anyways.

Yesterday I was reading about Saint Monica’s life history, the mother of Saint Augustine. She waited many years for her husband to be converted, and waited (and prayed) for 25 years for her son’s conversion.

Thanks a lot for your insights!
 
Do you think she could believe in God and not Jesus? Does she not believe in a creator or is the story of the historical Jesus too illogical? Did she have a bad relationship with her father or no relationship?

An agnostic questions. That is good. I can’t wrap my head around the atheist ideology.
 
cfernandomaciel said:
What are we then supposed to do? What’s the state of mind/spirit a Christian should have then?
Click to expand...
Please understand that I am providing the views here of a non-Catholic, although I am very RC in my outlook on many things. “Lord have mercy, Christ have mercy, Lord have mercy”. I have no problem at all in reciting this along with the rest of the congregants. But it’s not something that enters into my daily prayer life. The Our Father, for instance, asks only that God forgive us when we have transgressed in some way,and even then in only the manner and measure in which we offer it to someone else. The mercy pleas while not necessary to me, and again, I can only relate my own experiences and perspectives, do represent humility and can be looked at in that way. I don’t believe they are intended to imply that we are heinously wicked every waking moment, but rather serve to remind us just how far short we fall when seeking the divine in our life.

Blessing to you, my friend. 🙂
 
Hey @Kris34.

If I understood correctly your question, yes, she grew up in a very broken home. Her mother has narcissistic disorder, and her father is the enabler. Up to these days we struggle with her mother lying compulsively and her father covering up all the trouble she causes with her lies.

She goes to a therapist to be able to deal with her parents’ problems. And now that you have mentioned, it does seem to have a connection. Some kind of trust problem.

I did have a conversation with her the other day. She was asking me about a few points on religion. I asked her about her points of view, in the possibility (she is an agnostic, remember?) of God existing. She said that God is not an issue, not a subject on her life. Because she has many things going on (such as the issue with her parents) with her life, so God is not a priority right now.
 
For some the understanding of God comes from our relationship with our earthy father/mother.

I could see how she could view God as another scary relationship in her life she just doesn’t have energy to deal with.
 
Hey @Kris34,

I haven’t thought it this way before. It does make a lot of sense! Thank you a bunch for that!
 
I wish I knew the solution. She doesn’t sound hostile though. That is something good.
 
cfernandomaciel said:
I have a hard time explaining about the mercy of God to my wife, whom is an agnostic.

She fails to understand the necessity of acknowledging Jesus Christ in order to receive His mercy. She says that if He is merciful, then He knows her heart, as well as her needs.

She is a very good woman. I’ve never seen anybody around me which is so engaged in charity and in providing for the needed. But she fails to acknowledge that part, which we need to accept Jesus.

I have a real hard time in explaining things. I’m even at this very moment failing to explain the situation to you guys. So, I cannot give her a decent answer which will help her understand the whole accepting Jesus into our lives, in order for His mercy to take place.

Can you help me with this one?
Click to expand...
Just a few thoughts

The cross is made up of the vertical portion and the horizontal portion.

God (the vertical), is first and foremost for our love. THEN we love our neighbor (the horizontal) as ourselves.
  1. the vertical comes first ALWAYS. The creator of everything that is
  2. then the horizontal , creation and the creature.
We can’t get this screwed up. We can’t absolutize #2, stress the creation and the creature and forget, ignore, or even deny #1 , the creator of everything.

Putting this as simply as Paul put it, he cuts to the chase,

If Jesus didn’t rise from the dead, our faith is useless, and we are to be pitied of all people.

Just because Jesus did what He did for us, does it mean we can do whatever and believe whatever we want. And He tells us that. NO ONE goes to heaven except through faith in Jesus AND who obeys Him

And we are to take up our cross DAILY and follow Him.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top