Divine Office Equivalent for Trads

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I have the Liturgy of the Hours, by Divine Office on my iPhone.

Is there an equivalent set of pre-Vatican II readings/prayers with Latin/English that follow a calendar, other than the 1962 missal? It doesn’t have to be an App.

I’m not exactly sure what I’m asking, but I hope someone does.🙂

What do you trad folks use?

Thanks.
 
TrueLight said:
I have the Liturgy of the Hours, by Divine Office on my iPhone.

Is there an equivalent set of pre-Vatican II readings/prayers with Latin/English that follow a calendar, other than the 1962 missal? It doesn’t have to be an App.

I’m not exactly sure what I’m asking, but I hope someone does.🙂

What do you trad folks use?

Thanks.
Click to expand...
Try divinumofficium.com, by forum member Laszlo. You’ve got a lot of options there.
 
You know, ;), you don’t have to do everything other trads do just to be “trad”. It seems to be a mentality that can become ridiculous with repetition and profound induction. Love our Lord Jesus Christ primarily before you love forms associated with worship of Him. Obviously I don’t know your soul and the love you have for God, but you are exhibiting common symptoms of formulaic and legalistic thought processes. “If it isn’t pre-1962, I simply can’t stand praying it” is a very unfortunate attitude. Faith, hope, charity, asceticism, and obeisance to our Heavenly Father come before feeling conservative (as awesome as that feeling is).

Anyway, to ask for an “equivalent” to the Divine Office makes it sound as if the D.O. did not exist before 1965! 😛
 
GloriousOrder said:
Obviously I don’t know your soul and the love you have for God, but you are exhibiting common symptoms of formulaic and legalistic thought processes. “If it isn’t pre-1962, I simply can’t stand praying it” is a very unfortunate attitude. Faith, hope, charity, asceticism, and obeisance to our Heavenly Father come before feeling conservative (as awesome as that feeling is).
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My, my. Is that what you got from my question? Ha ha.

I said that I have the Divine Office Liturgy of the Hours on my iPhone and I pray it every day.

However, I am interested in the Trad viewpoint, so yes, I am interested in that particular viewpoint in addition to other viewpoints.

Since the history of the Church is one of the things that drew me to the Catholic Church, I am especially interested in the prayers and customs of our Christian ancestors.

Actually, based on the PMs I receive every day, I doubt I fall into the legalistic category. I think people wish I conformed a little more.
 
GloriousOrder said:
You know, ;), you don’t have to do everything other trads do just to be “trad”. It seems to be a mentality that can become ridiculous with repetition and profound induction.
Click to expand...
GloriousOrder, I do have some sense, you know. 😛
 
If you like iPhone apps, there’s a new app called Breviarium Meum - it has the 1962 Ruberics version of the Divine Office. It’s got Latin/English translation as well as Latin/Hungarian.

And it’s FREE! 👍
 
TrueLight said:
My, my. Is that what you got from my question? Ha ha.

I said that I have the Divine Office Liturgy of the Hours on my iPhone and I pray it every day.

However, I am interested in the Trad viewpoint, so yes, I am interested in that particular viewpoint in addition to other viewpoints.

Since the history of the Church is one of the things that drew me to the Catholic Church, I am especially interested in the prayers and customs of our Christian ancestors.

Actually, based on the PMs I receive every day, I doubt I fall into the legalistic category. I think people wish I conformed a little more.
Click to expand...
Well good luck. There’s a reason why the Divine Office was simplified in 1970, mainly for the benefit of busy secular clergy but also to encourage greater lay participation.

But if you really want to be “Traditional” don’t stop at the 1962 breviary which, in fact, only goes back to 1910. Try the traditional Benedictine version, still in use in monasteries around the world. The basic schema was laid out by St. Benedict 1500 years ago and has been in continuous use since.
 
TrueLight said:
I have the Liturgy of the Hours, by Divine Office on my iPhone.

Is there an equivalent set of pre-Vatican II readings/prayers with Latin/English that follow a calendar, other than the 1962 missal? It doesn’t have to be an App.

I’m not exactly sure what I’m asking, but I hope someone does.🙂

What do you trad folks use?

Thanks.
Click to expand...
I like the site called the Roman Breviary. It has the Pius X Psalter instead of the Pius XII Psalter. It’s beautiful! It’s put out by the SSPV. You have to pay $2.50 a month or somehting like that. I copied it when it was free. They put it in order for you because the old breviaries were hard to follow. Here’s the link:

breviary.net/
 
Stavros said:
If you like iPhone apps, there’s a new app called Breviarium Meum - it has the 1962 Ruberics version of the Divine Office. It’s got Latin/English translation as well as Latin/Hungarian.

And it’s FREE! 👍
Click to expand...
Stavros,

You made me so happy!

I just downloaded it and set it up so that the Latin and English are side by side.

How do I learn the hymns? Is the music printed anywhere? Is there an audio version of the breviary?

Thanks.
 
OraLabora said:
Well good luck. There’s a reason why the Divine Office was simplified in 1970, mainly for the benefit of busy secular clergy but also to encourage greater lay participation.
Click to expand...
By simplified, you mean shorter right?
But if you really want to be “Traditional” don’t stop at the 1962 breviary which, in fact, only goes back to 1910. Try the traditional Benedictine version, still in use in monasteries around the world. The basic schema was laid out by St. Benedict 1500 years ago and has been in continuous use since.
Click to expand...
That sounds interesting. Have a good link?
 
James224 said:
I like the site called the Roman Breviary. It has the Pius X Psalter instead of the Pius XII Psalter. It’s beautiful! It’s put out by the SSPV. You have to pay $2.50 a month or somehting like that. I copied it when it was free. They put it in order for you because the old breviaries were hard to follow. Here’s the link:

breviary.net/
Click to expand...
Hours?
Thanks for the link. I’m going to check it out:

This post made me do research. I didn’t know what SSPV was. I see it is "The Society of St. Pius V is an organization of traditional Catholic priests dedicated to the preservation of the Traditional Latin Mass. "

I have only heard of the SSPX.

Pius XII Psalter versus Piux X Psalter? :shrug

So is Roman Breviary same as the Liturgy of the Hours?
 
TrueLight said:
Hours?
Thanks for the link. I’m going to check it out:

This post made me do research. I didn’t know what SSPV was. I see it is "The Society of St. Pius V is an organization of traditional Catholic priests dedicated to the preservation of the Traditional Latin Mass. "

I have only heard of the SSPX.
Click to expand...
The so-called SSPV is a small group of priests who were expelled from the SSPX by Marcel Lefebvre for sedevacantism and other general weirdness. Most of the “founding members” have since drifted off into careers of being their own personal bishops, setting up cultlike chapels, and that type of thing.
 
MarkThompson said:
The so-called SSPV is a small group of priests who were expelled from the SSPX by Marcel Lefebvre for sedevacantism and other general weirdness. Most of the “founding members” have since drifted off into careers of being their own personal bishops, setting up cultlike chapels, and that type of thing.
Click to expand...
Wow! See, their website didn’t say all that. 😃
 
Stavros said:
If you like iPhone apps, there’s a new app called Breviarium Meum - it has the 1962 Ruberics version of the Divine Office. It’s got Latin/English translation as well as Latin/Hungarian.

And it’s FREE! 👍
Click to expand...
Hey thank you! I’ve been hoping that an iPhone native app would surface. I’ve been in the meantime using laszlo’s divinumofficium.com on the phone browser, which also (coincidentally?) allows for translation into Hungarian. Did laszlo create this too?
 
For those of you who are used to praying the Divine Office and other brevaries do you see any major differences between them besides the number of readings?

Are the same readings eventually covered for both throughout the year or are the readings different?
 
TrueLight said:
For those of you who are used to praying the Divine Office and other brevaries do you see any major differences between them besides the number of readings?

Are the same readings eventually covered for both throughout the year or are the readings different?
Click to expand...
The differences are the same as the differences in the Mass: The Confiteor is longer, there is a bit more repetition, and there’s a bit more piety involved (if you’d ask most traditionalists).

The most obvious difference is the inclusion of the Hour of Prime (this hour is completely abolished in the Liturgy of the Hours).

Otherwise, both versions are capable of being celebrated in a manner becoming of the Psaltry.
 
TrueLight, you asked me earlier about the Divine Office / Breviary books to use, what I use, or what I recommend…especially for Matins.

Matins is my favourite part of the Divine office, it most reminds me of the Byzantine form, which many would say is overly time consuming and needs shortening in order for most people to have time to pray it. These are fair criticisms, I would rather have too much than too little. Assuming we will all fail to meet our obligations at some point, I think it is better to have a too an high ideal and fail than to have a too low an ideal and fail.

I currently only own one book for Matins, it is published by anglicans in the year 1961 and reprinted by lancelot andrewes (www.andrewespress.com). The translation of the psalms is flawed, because it is Miles Coverdale, not Douay Rheims, Douy Rheims is more accurate, Coverdale is more paraphrase. The translation of lessons, responsories, antiphons, collects and hymns is excellent and accurate and nearly always matches or compares closely to that of breviary.net. This is not something we can say is true for the Baronius Press edition of the secular Roman Breviary, which has modernized english translations because when it was published in 1963 it was the very beginning of the usages of modern simplified english and reforms of our traditions.

The lanceloteandrewes book is probably one of the only matins or breviary books that will fit in your pocket and is light enough to have with you everywhere. The disdvantage of this is that it has no latin in it, so it is in that sense…not valid for liturgical usage in an actual tradtional latin mass community (unless perhaps it is the intended audience of Anglicans, such as those entering the ordinariate, with whom I have several friends whom I collaborate with and hope to use parts of this book, or similar books in english within a liturgical context.)

here is a review: absnospin.blogspot.com/2008/04/review-monastic-matins-lancelot.html

The reason I am willing to use the Benedictine form of Matins is because it preserves the majority of the same texts that were in the secular roman form of the year 1962. Certain feasts are missing that are in the Roman form, St Bridget of Sweden for example has extensive lessons and she is entirely omitted from the Benedictine form (to my dismay), but she is an unusual exception.

As for other Matins books, I am in the process of discerning which to buy next, So I am unable to offer further advice in that direction.

I have used sporadically for certain feasts the Sarum office in latin from Dr. William Renwick’s work (especially proper of the saints, distributed privately), and the books on the Dominican liturgy blog.

Many of the Dominican breviaries contain older saints which whose propers were removed from the secular Roman office sometime after the council of Trent in the counter-reformation (16th c.). Examples being, St Augustine, St Catherine of Alexandria, St Catherine of Sienna, St Vincent of Sarragossa, St Nicholas, St Jacob the Apostle (Compostela/Galicia)

dominican-liturgy.blogspot.com/
specifically these two:
musicasacra.com/dominican/antiphonarium-1862-jandel-t1.pdf
musicasacra.com/dominican/antiphonarium-1862-jandel-t2.pdf

I am moving in the direction of eventually using the Sarum office entirely when it is fully available as a book form, supplemented by the propers of regional saints from other nations pre-16th c. calenders (St Patrick for example.). I will create my own books for it if necessary.
 
Chris_McAvoy said:
TrueLight, you asked me earlier about the Divine Office / Breviary books to use, what I use, or what I recommend…especially for Matins.

Matins is my favourite part of the Divine office, it most reminds me of the Byzantine form, which many would say is overly time consuming and needs shortening in order for most people to have time to pray it. These are fair criticisms, I would rather have too much than too little. Assuming we will all fail to meet our obligations at some point, I think it is better to have a too an high ideal and fail than to have a too low an ideal and fail.

I currently only own one book for Matins, it is published by anglicans in the year 1961 and reprinted by lancelot andrewes (www.andrewespress.com). The translation of the psalms is flawed, because it is Miles Coverdale, not Douay Rheims, Douy Rheims is more accurate, Coverdale is more paraphrase. The translation of lessons, responsories, antiphons, collects and hymns is excellent and accurate and nearly always matches or compares closely to that of breviary.net. This is not something we can say is true for the Baronius Press edition of the secular Roman Breviary, which has modernized english translations because when it was published in 1963 it was the very beginning of the usages of modern simplified english and reforms of our traditions.

The lanceloteandrewes book is probably one of the only matins or breviary books that will fit in your pocket and is light enough to have with you everywhere. The disdvantage of this is that it has no latin in it, so it is in that sense…not valid for liturgical usage in an actual tradtional latin mass community (unless perhaps it is the intended audience of Anglicans, such as those entering the ordinariate, with whom I have several friends whom I collaborate with and hope to use parts of this book, or similar books in english within a liturgical context.)

here is a review: absnospin.blogspot.com/2008/04/review-monastic-matins-lancelot.html

The reason I am willing to use the Benedictine form of Matins is because it preserves the majority of the same texts that were in the secular roman form of the year 1962. Certain feasts are missing that are in the Roman form, St Bridget of Sweden for example has extensive lessons and she is entirely omitted from the Benedictine form (to my dismay), but she is an unusual exception.

As for other Matins books, I am in the process of discerning which to buy next, So I am unable to offer further advice in that direction.

I have used sporadically for certain feasts the Sarum office in latin from Dr. William Renwick’s work (especially proper of the saints, distributed privately), and the books on the Dominican liturgy blog.

Many of the Dominican breviaries contain older saints which whose propers were removed from the secular Roman office sometime after the council of Trent in the counter-reformation (16th c.). Examples being, St Augustine, St Catherine of Alexandria, St Catherine of Sienna, St Vincent of Sarragossa, St Nicholas, St Jacob the Apostle (Compostela/Galicia)

dominican-liturgy.blogspot.com/
specifically these two:
musicasacra.com/dominican/antiphonarium-1862-jandel-t1.pdf
musicasacra.com/dominican/antiphonarium-1862-jandel-t2.pdf

I am moving in the direction of eventually using the Sarum office entirely when it is fully available as a book form, supplemented by the propers of regional saints from other nations pre-16th c. calenders (St Patrick for example.). I will create my own books for it if necessary.
Click to expand...
I had no idea Catholicism was so rich in theology, devotions, practices, prayers. I really believe if non-Catholics knew there was so much, they would be running to Catholicism. All peoples would be deferring to the Church in all matters spiritual.

Thanks so much for taking the time to post this.
 
xixxvmcm85 said:
The differences are the same as the differences in the Mass:
Click to expand...
First of all the Officium divinum is the original name for the official prayer of the church obligatory for the clerics and religious. Since the 13th century it was called also Breviary, meaning that the books used some abbreviations, the opening words for some prayers instead of the whole. The name of the new prayer is Liturgy of the Hours.

In my well researched opinion the change in the Holy Mass between the 1962 and 1970 forms is just about as much as the change was made in 1955-1950 related to the Breviary. For the Mass the overall structure and the majority of the prayers is unchanged, the celebrating times is roughly the same

The 1962 vs 1970 Liturgy of the Hours is more radical change:
  • the 8 hour (Matins, Laudes, Prime, Terce, Sext, None, Vespers, Compline) is practically reduced to 5 (Lauds, Daytime, Reading, Vespers, Compline)
  • the at least 3 different structure is uniformed
  • the reciting time is halved.
 
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