Divinity of Christ and Islam

[StHilarious]

We don’t believe in the same God as Moslems. By worshipping another creature but calling it ‘God’ (or even 'The God of Abraham) does not make their god God.

Why did JPII kiss the koran, if did not contain the truth?

According to the RCC, both Catholics and Muslims worship the God of Abraham.

The most horrible thought enters my mind: Could the Roman Catholic Church be wrong?

 

[Montalban]

Why did JPII kiss the koran, if did not contain the truth?

Indeed, why? I’m not here though to speculate on his reasons. Maybe you can.

According to the RCC, both Catholics and Muslims worship the God of Abraham.

Thanks for simply repeating what the RCC believe.

The most horrible thought enters my mind: Could the Roman Catholic Church be wrong?

The God of the Judeo-Christian world is one of love. The one of Islam is closer to the ‘arbitrary’ nature of the pagan gods, that meddled and tormented in worldly affairs. For in Islam ‘salvation’ is not to the ‘just’ but to those that are saved, which is at the whim of Allah.

Check out this site for a comparison
answering-islam.org/Gilchrist/love.html

If, however you wish to argue that John Paul II kissed the Koran because somewhere (no matter how small) there was some germ of truth, then you will have to argue that 1,000s of different religions allow people to worship the same God.

 

[Mystophilus]

From what I have seen on this Forum, they won’t accept your arguments anyway. They don’t believe historical evidence or anything that contradicts what they have been taught and believe that the Bible has been corrupted by men, although their only evidence for this is that if it isn’t in the Q’uran, it was made up or changed by the early Christians.

What a peculiar thing to do! I mean, it is not as if anyone else would do anything like that. We do not see Catholics refusing to believe anything which contradicts what they have been taught, or Protestants refusing to believe anything which contradicts what they have been taught, or atheists, or …

 

[Montalban]

Not sure I understand what you are saying.
The Trinity is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Three persons in one divine nature.
For us that is the God of Abraham.
The Jews and Muslims believe in one God and that God is the God of Abraham. To that extent we all believe in the same God but its just that Jews and Muslims don’t understand that the one God is not one person.

However, Muslims believing in the God of Abraham is about the only thing we have in common. Islam, as we know, is a false and violent religion and Mohammed was a false prophet and the anti-Christ.

The Chinese mystic (named Hong Xiuquan) declares himself to be the younger brother of Jesus Christ. Although we would both (I presume) deny that he was right here, you would have to say that he was worshipping God, no matter how muddled he was, because what you’re in effect arguing is a way that allows ANY person/group that claims to be worshipping our God to be legitimate, insofar as their claim to be worshipping Him.

No the other ‘attributes’ Moslems give to their god are not like our God at all.

Their ‘god’ picked a man as prophet who over-saw the execution of PoWs, and who had intercourse with a nine year old girl. This type of ‘example’ that they follow is appalling. So you would have to both argue that they are wrong in believing this and, right too (to a degree), because they’re worshipping our God.

There is no truth of God in Islam.

I would say that there’s a ‘partial’ truth in Judaism.

 

[thistle]

The Chinese mystic (named Hong Xiuquan) declares himself to be the younger brother of Jesus Christ. Although we would both (I presume) deny that he was right here, you would have to say that he was worshipping God, no matter how muddled he was, because what you’re in effect arguing is a way that allows ANY person/group that claims to be worshipping our God to be legitimate, insofar as their claim to be worshipping Him.

No the other ‘attributes’ Moslems give to their god are not like our God at all.

Their ‘god’ picked a man as prophet who over-saw the execution of PoWs, and who had intercourse with a nine year old girl. This type of ‘example’ that they follow is appalling. So you would have to both argue that they are wrong in believing this and, right too (to a degree), because they’re worshipping our God.

There is no truth of God in Islam.

I would say that there’s a ‘partial’ truth in Judaism.

I wonder why our Church says the muslims believe in the same God as us?

 

[The_Catholic]

Getting back to the original questions, what miracles did Christ do that at first failed?

 

[Damascus]

Getting back to the original questions, what miracles did Christ do that at first failed?

I am gonna guess this is the old “blind man” one.

That is simple. Jesus failed at nothing. THe blind man had no faith it would work the first time. Then he woke up to the fact that he needed to have faith for it to happen.

 

[StHilarious]

The God of the Judeo-Christian world is one of love. The one of Islam is closer to the ‘arbitrary’ nature of the pagan gods, that meddled and tormented in worldly affairs. For in Islam ‘salvation’ is not to the ‘just’ but to those that are saved, which is at the whim of Allah.

What you are saying is that Jesus is love and Allah is evil. Is that correct?

What the RCC is saying they are both the God of Abraham.

I cannot reconcile the evil God of Islam with the love of Jesus. Is the RCC really correct?

 

[StHilarious]

Not sure I understand what you are saying.
The Trinity is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Three persons in one divine nature.
For us that is the God of Abraham.
The Jews and Muslims believe in one God and that God is the God of Abraham. To that extent we all believe in the same God but its just that Jews and Muslims don’t understand that the one God is not one person.

However, Muslims believing in the God of Abraham is about the only thing we have in common. Islam, as we know, is a false and violent religion and Mohammed was a false phrophet and the anti-Christ.

So, Allah is a violent God and Jesus is a loving God and the RCC claims that they are the same.

On what does the RCC base is (Edited) claim?

 

[Damascus]

So, Allah is a violent God and Jesus is a loving God and the RCC claims that they are the same.

On what does the RCC base is (Edited) claim?

Woah buddy. Preposterous?

The thing is that they have an IMPERFECT understanding of God and no real understanding at all of Jesus.

You sir, are the one that is (Edited) here.

 

[Damascus]

St Hillarious-

How do you reconcile the God of the Old Testament with the God of the New Testament? Yes, same God. Yet, God has fully revealed himself with sending his only Son-

Now, you must know that God’s relationship with his people was unique prior to Christ right?

In other words, if you dont get Christ right- you cant get anything else right either.

They have mixed up beliefs based on several misunderstandings of Jewish beliefs and heretic Christian beliefs and other beliefs-

The CCC does not say what you are saying. You are twisting things in order to make an attack on the Catholic faith. Fine.

Not surprising.

 

[Damascus]

Getting back to the original questions, what miracles did Christ do that at first failed?

He set up a Church - the Holy Catholic Church - and The Protestants left his miracle he gave us. They failed, not Christ.

 

[thistle]

So, Allah is a violent God and Jesus is a loving God and the RCC claims that they are the same.

On what does the RCC base is preposterous claim?

First the word Allah simply means God so when you are talking in English to us here you should use God.
The one true God (the Holy Trinity) is not a violent God. The violence is at human level and it is the muslims themselves who are violent (not all but a growing minority). The silent moderate majority are unfortunately letting themselves be hijacked by fundamental extremists. Islam means submission and it is the aim of muslims that everyone in the world submit to their faith, by force if necessary.
72% of the known terrorist groups in the world today are muslim. What does that say for muslim claims that they are peaceful?

 

[StHilarious]

Woah buddy. (Edited)?

The thing is that they have an IMPERFECT understanding of God and no real understanding at all of Jesus.

You sir, are the one that is (Edited) here.

Thank you for your personal insult. I am delighted with your response, as you have just insulted one who loves Jesus.

If you were to read my post then you would come to the conclusion that your church claims that violent Allah and loving Jesus are both the same God of Abraham. I find this claim insulting to Jesus. I am prepared to stand up for Jesus, and if anyone dares to make false claims about my saviour than these need to be challenged. My statement and question remain:

Allah is a violent God and Jesus is a loving God and the RCC claims that they are the same.

On what does the RCC base this (Edited) claim?

and I am looking forward to a civil and polite response.

 

[StHilarious]

First the word Allah simply means God so when you are talking in English to us here you should use God.
The one true God (the Holy Trinity) is not a violent God. The violence is at human level and it is the muslims themselves who are violent (not all but a growing minority). The silent moderate majority are unfortunately letting themselves be hijacked by fundamental extremists. Islam means submission and it is the aim of muslims that everyone in the world submit to their faith, by force if necessary.
72% of the known terrorist groups in the world today are muslim. What does that say for muslim claims that they are peaceful?

You have not read my post and not answered my question.

 

[thistle]

You have not read my post and not answered my question.

What did I not answer? There is only one God and he is not violent.
It is the muslim extremists who are violent and not God and the Catholic Church most definitely does not say that God is violent.
Please cite your source for such an outrageous claim!

 

[JimG]

Islam, as well as Judaism and Christianity, are monotheistic religions: they believe that there is only one God. (Muslim’s, however, consider Christians to be polytheists because of the doctrine of the Trinity.)

Since there is in fact only one God, these religions by definition believe in the same God—the one God. Christianity, through the revelation given by God the Son, has a better understanding of the nature and attributes of God.

God first revealed Himself to the Jews in the Old Covenant, preparing them for the New Covenant which arrived with the coming of Christ the Divine Son.

Islam is an enduring heresy based in my view, mainly on a misunderstanding of Judaism and Christianity, and an attempt by Muhammed to ‘correct’ what he considered to be the errors of the old and new testaments. It is likely that many of his beliefs were derived from later Gnostic heresies.

 

[Damascus]

Thank you for your personal insult. I am delighted with your response, as you have just insulted one who loves Jesus.

If you were to read my post then you would come to the conclusion that your church claims that violent Allah and loving Jesus are both the same God of Abraham. I find this claim insulting to Jesus. I am prepared to stand up for Jesus, and if anyone dares to make false claims about my saviour than these need to be challenged. My statement and question remain:

Allah is a violent God and Jesus is a loving God and the RCC claims that they are the same.

On what does the RCC base this preposterous claim?

and I am looking forward to a civil and polite response.

You are welcome!

You insulted the CCC and the Church!

You are not going to win the hearts and minds of the Catholics here by doing so.

 

[Damascus]

This thread has been derailed by a poster who attacks the Catholic faith, and has no basis to prove his allegations.

Does St Hillarious have a CCC?

Quote from it please sir…

 

[Damascus]

What did I not answer? There is only one God and he is not violent.
It is the muslim extremists who are violent and not God and the Catholic Church most definitely does not say that God is violent.
Please cite your source for such an outrageous claim!

He does not even try to back up this claim.

He has the burden to do so, not us. Lets see him do it…