Divorce and annullment

[dulcissima]

This is one part of how we interpret Church teaching, as a divorced worman, that I really have a problem with.

I don’t want to spend the rest of my life alone if the Tribunal decides that my marriage was valid, despite the fact that my abusive, alcoholic husband left me.

I don’t want to be denied communion if I do meet the right man, fall in love, and get married, but an annulment was denied.

Why should I live the rest of my life alone? Lonely? Without companionship? A pathetic single woman with cats as her only friends? When I was working at the checkout line in the grocery store, I saw many of those women pass through my line.

I am interested in dating again some day. I am going to ask for an annulment. But why should I wait on some piece of paper saying that my marriage wasn’t valid in the eyes of the Church when I know in my heart that it wasn’t? In fact, my ex said many times “We don’t have a sacramental marriage!”

What if I can’t find him to get his statement? What if he refuses to cooperate?

Why? Look at your signature line…“Jesus, I trust in You!”

There is very good reason to wait for that piece of paper. Just look at what happens to all of those women who divorce their abusive husbands, then go on to trust in themselves, date again, and get married. What’s their track record? I’ve known of some who have been married 5 times, each husband worse than the last. It happens all the time, frighteningly often. How are you going to beat the odds?

I know what I am going to do. I am going to trust in Jesus and the Church he gave us. I am going to go through the process of getting an annulment, and I won’t date before I find out the truth about my “marriage.” Even though I know in my heart that my marriage is not valid, for multiple reasons. I’ve looked into it. One priest has said an annulment is a “slam dunk.” Still, I’m going to take that time to heal, to go back to college and get my master’s degree, to get organized, to do my best to become the person that God wants me to be. Yes, I don’t want to spend my life alone either, but I would never want to put my soul in danger for all eternity, nor would I take even the smallest chance of endangering the sanctity of a man that I truly loved.

I really hope that you will consider the importance of doing that too. I know it is disappointing. I know that it is hard to have the discipline to wait. The really good things in life though are worth sacrifice, and love and marriage really are all about sacrifice.

 

[Philena]

And if my marriage is not annuled? I’m supposed to spend the rest of my life “married” to a man who abandoned me? I don’t even know where he is. He doesn’t care about me at all, yet the church says that we are sacramentally married? Come on. So my alternative to to pray that he dies and releases me from this “marriage”?

 

[mariam1976]

And if my marriage is not annuled? I’m supposed to spend the rest of my life “married” to a man who abandoned me? I don’t even know where he is. He doesn’t care about me at all, yet the church says that we are sacramentally married? Come on. So my alternative to to pray that he dies and releases me from this “marriage”?

oh my dear… i know where you are coming from… i am in the same boat…i am just getting my divorce and dont know what i am going to do…i pray to jesus every night that he should show me the right way and the right people… up until now, everything has been happening… even the little stuff…

one thing that i have found very powerful is the rosary… just start saying it and you will see miracles!! trust me…

 

[jrabs]

. So my alternative to to pray that he dies and releases me from this “marriage”?

No that is not a great alternative.

Just patiently wait for the decree from the Tribunal. You do not need to know where he is in order for you to start the process.

 

[lizaanne]

According to canon law (as you probably know), two Catholics who marry outside the Church would be committing grave sin if they were to have marital relations, because their marriage is not recognized by the Church.

This is not entirely true. There are some cases of marriage outside the Catholic Church which are seen as valid marriages, though not sacramental. This is an extremely important distinction, because if a Catholic marries in a Protestant ceremony, then they are in a valid marriage, though not necessarily a sacramental one. Even some non-Christian marriages are considered valid, yet not sacramental.

When asking for advice about annulment, which is an extremely complicated process, on an Internet forum, you must be very careful and verify with a priest who knows Canon Law. And not all of them do. And it’s not worth the state of your eternal soul to take the word of someone on the Internet that you are free to behave as a single person.

~Liza

 

[Cygnus_X1]

And if my marriage is not annuled? I’m supposed to spend the rest of my life “married” to a man who abandoned me? I don’t even know where he is. He doesn’t care about me at all, yet the church says that we are sacramentally married? Come on. So my alternative to to pray that he dies and releases me from this “marriage”?

I hear you, Philena. My wife’s best friend and matron of honor is in the same boat.

Five years ago, her husband left her and her two children and has not been seen or heard from since. She has conceded that she is still married to him no matter what he does, because their marriage was valid in the Church’s eyes. I doubt the marriage could or would be annulled.

So, I’m afraid the answers are: yes, you’re still married; and yes, only death dissolves the bond.

But you don’t have to like it.

 

[tjm8]

And if my marriage is not annuled? I’m supposed to spend the rest of my life “married” to a man who abandoned me? I don’t even know where he is. He doesn’t care about me at all, yet the church says that we are sacra mentally married? Come on. So my alternative to to pray that he dies and releases me from this “marriage”?

I think I was about ten years old when I first heard that there was no catholic divorce. By the age of twenty two, I thought I was OK with it because I was married to a girl who actually joined the church so we could be married in the church. Well, it is now forty years later and I am happily married ( and have been for 19 years) to the most wonderful woman in the world. I thank God every day for allowing me to find her and for giving me the good judgment to ignore all of the church’s stupid rules. Good luck with the decisions only you can make.

 

[Ray_Scheel]

And if my marriage is not annuled? I’m supposed to spend the rest of my life “married” to a man who abandoned me? I don’t even know where he is. He doesn’t care about me at all, yet the church says that we are sacramentally married? Come on. So my alternative to to pray that he dies and releases me from this “marriage”?

Your ex does not have to cooperate or even be found in order for the process to proceed (although a response from the other party can certainly speed the process along. As for the rest, there is a bit of conventional wisdom to consider applying to your outlook: “Don’t borrow trouble”. In other words, since you have not yet started the process of applying for nullity, spend your energy on that first and deal with the “what if” only if you need to. The time to start writing your petition up is now, before you are ready to start dating again.

 

[JezuUfamTobie]

This is not entirely true. There are some cases of marriage outside the Catholic Church which are seen as valid marriages, though not sacramental. This is an extremely important distinction, because if a Catholic marries in a Protestant ceremony, then they are in a valid marriage, though not necessarily a sacramental one. Even some non-Christian marriages are considered valid, yet not sacramental.

According to Catholic Answers Apologists, the only situation in which a Catholic can validly marry outside the Church is with a special dispensation (which I believe must come from the Bishop himself). Any other marriage outside the Church is invalid for someone who is a Catholic at the time of marriage. It remains invalid unless convalidated.

If you’ve heard anything to the contrary, I’d love to see the source. I would be very glad to know more.

I agree that one should be cautious in accepting information. But there’s no crime in repeating the words of an expert in the field.

 

[mariam1976]

According to Catholic Answers Apologists, the only situation in which a Catholic can validly marry outside the Church is with a special dispensation (which I believe must come from the Bishop himself). Any other marriage outside the Church is invalid for someone who is a Catholic at the time of marriage. It remains invalid unless convalidated.

If you’ve heard anything to the contrary, I’d love to see the source. I would be very glad to know more.

I agree that one should be cautious in accepting information. But there’s no crime in repeating the words of an expert in the field.

how do you determine that you are a catholic or not?

 

[JezuUfamTobie]

how do you determine that you are a catholic or not?

I think there might be some gray area there. Nowadays (or so I hear) one must submit a written statement to the Bishop in order to cease being a Catholic. So it’s pretty cut and dry now. Lapsed Catholics are still technically Catholics, or that’s my understanding.

However, in the past that was not always the case. I don’t recall in which year that change was made, and I have no idea what rule would be used in considering an annullment case… or if it would depend on the year of the marriage, whether the Catholic had ever completed the Sacraments of initiation, etc.

If you find out the answer, please tell me. Thanks!

 

[Philena]

I think it is ridiculous to expect one to be faithful to a marriage that doesn’t exist. My ex left me. He’s gone. Last I heard he was living with another woman. Why should I be faithful to him when there is no marriage left? Isn’t marriage about cleaving to one another, companionship, faithfulness, and love? None of these are present in my situation. So why should the church expect me to remain faithful in a faithless situation?

 

[mariam1976]

I think it is ridiculous to expect one to be faithful to a marriage that doesn’t exist. My ex left me. He’s gone. Last I heard he was living with another woman. Why should I be faithful to him when there is no marriage left? Isn’t marriage about cleaving to one another, companionship, faithfulness, and love? None of these are present in my situation. So why should the church expect me to remain faithful in a faithless situation?

this is my position too.

 

[lizaanne]

According to Catholic Answers Apologists, the only situation in which a Catholic can validly marry outside the Church is with a special dispensation (which I believe must come from the Bishop himself). Any other marriage outside the Church is invalid for someone who is a Catholic at the time of marriage. It remains invalid unless convalidated.

If you’ve heard anything to the contrary, I’d love to see the source. I would be very glad to know more.

I agree that one should be cautious in accepting information. But there’s no crime in repeating the words of an expert in the field.

Read this book Click Me

It’s all in here, it has an Imprimatur, and explains very clearly the differences between “good and natural” marriage, also called “valid” marriage, and sacramental marriage. Canon law references are clearly referenced.

I didn’t make this stuff up.

~Liza

 

[Ray_Scheel]

I think it is ridiculous to expect one to be faithful to a marriage that doesn’t exist. My ex left me. He’s gone. Last I heard he was living with another woman. Why should I be faithful to him when there is no marriage left? Isn’t marriage about cleaving to one another, companionship, faithfulness, and love? None of these are present in my situation. So why should the church expect me to remain faithful in a faithless situation?

If you are so sure your marriage does not exist, why the hang-up about asking the church to look into whether you had a sacramental marraige? You asked the Church to witness your wedding to your ex, why the double standard obvious in your bitter and protracted resistance to asking the Church to investigate whether he was capable of making a sacramentally binding vow?

 

[lizaanne]

If you are so sure your marriage does not exist, why the hang-up about asking the church to look into whether you had a sacramental marraige? You asked the Church to witness your wedding to your ex, why the double standard obvious in your bitter and protracted resistance to asking the Church to investigate whether he was capable of making a sacramentally binding vow?

Without wishing to put words in her mouth - I will say, because it’s hard.

It is an extremely difficult, emotional, and heart wrenching process. The questions are not easy, they may be simple, but the answers are often difficult to face. The process is extremely cathartic, but it is very difficult nonetheless, and something that one does not go into unless they are truly ready for it.

It’s not like filling out your taxes. It’s telling a bunch of people you don’t know, will never meet, and who have the ability to determine the course of the rest of your life, your most intimate details of your marriage.

I suspect the reason why many people don’t go through it is because it’s just not easy.

~Liza

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Hi Mariam and Philena:

Been there, (abusive marriage), separated for 7 years before the divorce; done that (divorce); and got the annulment afterward, (no cooperation on his side needed).

I have been celibate for nearly 20 years now. During the horrors of that marriage, during the separation, now nearly 6 years on from the divorce and nearly 2 from the annulment.

There are worse things. I’m only 50 (probably that seems ‘dead’ to you, I’m sure it did to me when I was 31 and ‘that side’ of life disappeared for me). Do I sometimes worry that I’ll ‘never find someone else?’ Sure, the culture inculcates it in us. But mostly no. Why? I have Jesus, don’t I? Am I really trusting in God if I wail that “if the church doesn’t LET ME have what I want, I’ll be alone and sexless forever?” Did God guarantee that we will always have what we want, when we want it? That we would never suffer, even suffer unfairly? Aren’t we told over and over that we must perservere, even when things are unfair, hard, frightening. . .that we must not give in to temptation, that God would always be there and answer our prayers even if the answers weren’t what we wanted to hear?

The world didn’t end because I’m not engaging in sexual relations. And while you have fantasies (I did) of the loving man, the happy sharing etc. that you’ll have ‘the second time around’, don’t forget that you have just as much chance of having everything from the ‘little frustrations’ (learning to share, to adjust to somebody else’s ways) to the bigger ones (what happens if THIS hubby develops a critical disease, succumbs to alcohol, is hit by a car, steals the business funds etc.?)

“THE CHURCH” is not some big bad authority figure wagging its finger at me “You sinner, you can’t have any fun unless you play by the rules. You made a mistake and you’ll pay forever, bwah-hah-hah”.

You (and I) made vows: well, our partners didn’t keep them. It may seem ‘logical’ to say, “he isn’t playing fair so I don’t have to either”, but that isn’t logic, it’s childish desire for revenge.

Life is NOT fair. It never was, and trying to make someone or something change the rules because others break the rules is as ridiculous to ask of the church as it is to ask of society.

Please officer, those other people ran the stop light, so why give ME a ticket for running it?

Thousands of people shoplift because it’s a victimless crime–why arrest ME if I get caught?

Thousands of people lie, cheat, steal, murder, and commit adultery and get away with it–why can’t I?

Believe me, I know this situation. It is all about anger, loss, entitlement, shame, resentment, worry, fear. . .IOW, it is all about FEELING. . .not about reason.

Deep down you know that no matter what ‘other people’ do or say, God has said “What I have joined together, let no man put asunder”. Until you know that there was never any ‘joining together’ from the very FIRST, that passage stands.

Please do not borrow trouble. It is entirely possible that you will find that your decree of nullity is granted because it will be obvious to the tribunal, not that one of you is particularly ‘at fault’ but that for one reason or another, one or both of you were not able to make an informed choice to enter a valid marriage. That is what an ‘annulment’ is–it isn’t a ‘justification’ of your innocence and your spouse’s guilt at destroying a marriage, but rather a decision that there was never a marriage to start with.

God bless you all.

 

[Ray_Scheel]

It’s not like filling out your taxes. It’s telling a bunch of people you don’t know, will never meet, and who have the ability to determine the course of the rest of your life, your most intimate details of your marriage

I do agree that it is hard, difficult, etc. I’m going thought the process myself right now (my wtnesses are in various stages of completing thier questionarres). It is just not making sense to me to insist on sharing (or suggesting) many of those same intamate details on a message board (full of unknown people) to try to justify not telling those details privately to the very people that could resolve the question.

 

[lizaanne]

Tantum Ergo - that was a truly beautiful post.

~Liza

 

[lizaanne]

I do agree that it is hard, difficult, etc. I’m going thought the process myself right now (my wtnesses are in various stages of completing thier questionarres). It is just not making sense to me to insist on sharing (or suggesting) many of those same intamate details on a message board (full of unknown people) to try to justify not telling those details privately to the very people that could resolve the question.

We don’t know everything about the situation. I’m sure she is sharing only what she feels comfortable with. I make no assumptions.

~Liza