Divorce and the Greek-Orthodox

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Like josie L was asking, how accepted are they?
That question would be better answered by someone other than me. I honestly do not know. I can say that if they are not well accepted, Catholics are hardly in a position to criticize, given the shameful history of how Eastern Catholics have often be treated, and in some cases, still are treated, by Latin Catholics.
 
There are some who are dead set against their very existence, there are some who claim they aren’t Orthodox due to their Western practices. I’ve personally never met one (on internet forums or in person). I do know we have someone here who goes to a Western Rite parish and they may be able to tell you how accepted they feel.

On an official level, practicioners of the Western Rite are fully Orthodox. Though only two Churches use the Western Rite to any great degree, they are accepted as legitimate by all.

The link Josie posted was incorrect when it said the Western Rite Liturgies were “reconstructed liturgies”. The two most common are slightly modified forms of the Tridentine Mass, and the Anglican service of the late 19th-early 20th century. Nothing was “reconstructed” because nothing needed to be. Both these services were in common use in their respective churches at the time they were formalized for the Western Rite.
 
That question would be better answered by someone other than me. I honestly do not know. I can say that if they are not well accepted, Catholics are hardly in a position to criticize, given the shameful history of how Eastern Catholics have often be treated, and in some cases, still are treated, by Latin Catholics.
I’ve been a Catholic for over 20 years, and I have never seen anything negative said about Eastern Catholicism (the ones in communion with us). For all of these 20 years, I’ve heard about the Pope trying to reach out to the Eastern Orthodox, and I see Eastern Catholicism promoted on Catholic radio and on EWTN. On EWTN, we have Fr. Mitch Pacwa who can celebrate Mass in the Eastern and Western form. Fr. Mitch has been on EWTN for longer than I have been a Catholic. I’ve actually seen an Eastern form Mass celebrated on EWTN. I think it was Syro-Malankara. And, at the National Shrine in D.C. they have regular Syro-Malankara Masses that I have seen happening on many occasions when there. And on Catholic radio, there is a radio show promoting Eastern Catholicism called Light of the East.

Annunciation Byzantine Catholic Church
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
I’ve been a Catholic for over 20 years, and I have never seen anything negative said about Eastern Catholicism (the ones in communion with us). For all of these 20 years, I’ve heard about the Pope trying to reach out to the Eastern Orthodox, and I see Eastern Catholicism promoted on Catholic radio and on EWTN. On EWTN, we have Fr. Mitch Pacwa who can celebrate Mass in the Eastern and Western form. I’ve actually seen an Eastern form Mass celebrated on EWTN. I think it was Syro-Malankara. And, at the National Shrine in D.C. they have regular Syro-Malankara Masses that I have seen happening on many occasions when there. And on Catholic radio, there is a radio show promoting Eastern Catholicism called Light of the East.

Annunciation Byzantine Catholic Church
http://www.byzantinecatholic.com/images/photos/DCP_0352.jpg
Just because you’ve not witnessed it doesn’t mean it’s not true.
 
Just because you’ve not witnessed it doesn’t mean it’s not true.
Since 1965 our Popes have been bending over backwards to reach out to the Eastern Orthodox. And Eastern Catholicism (the ones in communion with us) is and has been promoted by our Popes in the Catholic Church on Catholic TV and on Catholic Radio for decades. And I have never seen anyone complaining about the Eastern Catholics who are in communion with us even though I’ve been a Catholic as an adult for over 20 years. What more evidence do you want?
 
Eastern Catholicism is and has been promoted in the Catholic Church on Catholic TV and on Catholic Radio for decades. And I have never seen anyone complaining about the Eastern Catholics who are in communion with us even though I’ve been a Catholic for over 20 years. What more evidence do you want?
I think I, as an Eastern Catholic, am in a better position than you to know how Eastern Catholics have been, and in some cases, still are treated. I am aware of how recent popes have treated Eastern Catholics. I am also aware that there is more to history than the last few decades, and that even now, we endure poor treatment. We have had legitimate traditions, such as a married presbyterate, suppressed. There are still pressures within Rome for us not to ordain married men to the presbyterate. On a personal level, we constantly deal with ignorance, and in some cases, outright hostility, from some Latin Catholics. For example, I have been told that our belief in gods divine energies is “New Age” heresy. My wife was once told that our belief in theosis is “blasphemous.” We are not infrequently told that our fasting traditions are “dumb.” All of this not from atheists or even Protestants, but from Latin Catholics. I can add more. I’ve read criticisms of Eastern Catholic because we don’t pray the Rosary, we don’t have Stations of the Cross, we don’t have statues, just those weird-looking icons, we don’t have daily Mass, we have face-to-face confession, use of leavened bread for communion is invalid, etc., etc.
 
Since 1965 our Popes have been bending over backwards to reach out to the Eastern Orthodox. And Eastern Catholicism (the ones in communion with us) is and has been promoted by our Popes in the Catholic Church on Catholic TV and on Catholic Radio for decades. And I have never seen anyone complaining about the Eastern Catholics who are in communion with us even though I’ve been a Catholic as an adult for over 20 years. What more evidence do you want?
I think I, as an Eastern Catholic, am in a better position than you, who are not an Eastern Catholic, to know how Eastern Catholics have been, and in some cases, still are treated. I am aware of how recent popes have treated Eastern Catholics. I am also aware that there is more to history than the last few decades, and that even now, we endure poor treatment. We have had legitimate traditions, such as a married presbyterate, suppressed. There are still pressures within Rome for us not to ordain married men to the presbyterate. On a personal level, we constantly deal with ignorance, and in some cases, outright hostility, from some Latin Catholics. For example, I have been told that our belief in gods divine energies is “New Age” heresy. My wife was once told that our belief in theosis is “blasphemous.” We are not infrequently told that our fasting traditions are “dumb.” All of this not from atheists or even Protestants, but from Latin Catholics. I can add more. I’ve read criticisms of Eastern Catholic because we don’t pray the Rosary, we don’t have Stations of the Cross, we don’t have statues, just those weird-looking icons, we don’t have daily Mass, we have face-to-face confession, our use of leavened bread for communion is invalid, we dare to chrismate and commune our infants, and so on.
 
I think I, as an Eastern Catholic, am in a better position than you, who are not an Eastern Catholic, to know how Eastern Catholics have been, and in some cases, still are treated. I am aware of how recent popes have treated Eastern Catholics. I am also aware that there is more to history than the last few decades, and that even now, we endure poor treatment. We have had legitimate traditions, such as a married presbyterate, suppressed. There are still pressures within Rome for us not to ordain married men to the presbyterate. On a personal level, we constantly deal with ignorance, and in some cases, outright hostility, from some Latin Catholics. For example, I have been told that our belief in gods divine energies is “New Age” heresy. My wife was once told that our belief in theosis is “blasphemous.” We are not infrequently told that our fasting traditions are “dumb.” All of this not from atheists or even Protestants, but from Latin Catholics. I can add more. I’ve read criticisms of Eastern Catholic because we don’t pray the Rosary, we don’t have Stations of the Cross, we don’t have statues, just those weird-looking icons, we don’t have daily Mass, we have face-to-face confession, use of leavened bread for communion is invalid, etc., etc.
If we are going to compare this to the Western traditions you say are within Eastern Orthodoxy then it isn’t fair to judge us by how we treat our dissident Catholics. Dissident Catholics, whether they be Eastern or Western, are not tolerated well in the Church. But, there are Eastern Catholics who have no problem with being in communion with Rome (example), and those are the ones I am talking about. So, if you are going to go this route, the question I will ask back to you is how are dissident ones within the Eastern Orthodox churches treated? Are they treated well?
 
If we are going to compare this to the Western traditions you say are within Eastern Orthodoxy then it isn’t fair to judge us by how we treat our dissident Catholics. Dissident Catholics whether they be Eastern or Western are not tolerated well in the Church. But, there are Eastern Catholics who have no problem with being in communion with Rome, and those are the ones I am talking about. So, if you are going to go this route, the question I will ask back to you is how are dissident ones within the Eastern Orthodox churches treated? Are they treated well?
My point is that if there are some Eastern Orthodox who are hostile to their own Western Rite Vicariates, we Catholics are in no position to criticize, since we have had, and continue to have problems with hostility on the part of some of our Latin majority towards Eastern Catholics. Just because you are not personally aware of such hostility doesn’t mean it isn’t real. I assure you, from years of personal experience, that it is real. In all honesty, I don’t think that the situation with the Western Rite Vicariate is that different, just that is on a much smaller scale. My guess is that a great may Eastern Orthodox don’t even know of their existence, just as many Latin Catholics don’t even know of the existence of us Eastern Catholics.
 
This teaching that second and third marriages are concessions made to human weakness as well as the limit of three marriages, these were established by the Fathers themselves. Which do you trust, the interpretations and customs of the Holy Fathers (which you attack as inconsistent) or your own private judgment and interpretation of scripture? I thought that faithful Roman Catholics, according to the Tridentine Creed, were not permitted to elevate the latter (their own private judgment and interpretation of the Scriptures) above the former.
Not even the Pope is infallible. The Pope is only infallible when he speaks ex-cathedra and the Magisterium in communion with the Pope. The Fathers of the Church are not infallible. Their writings is not at the level of Sacred Scripture.

They did not always agree with each other. What would be inconsistent is to adopt a body of knowledge that is inconsistent within itself and most importantly; inconsistent with the teachings of the Magisterium of the Church.

Matthew 19

Divorce

19 When Jesus had finished saying these things, he left Galilee and went into the region of Judea to the other side of the Jordan. 2 Large crowds followed him, and he healed them there.

3 Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?”

4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’[a] 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

7 “Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?”

8 Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

10 The disciples said to him, “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.”

11 Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. 12 For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”
 
My point is that if there are some Eastern Orthodox who are hostile to their own Western Rite Vicariates, we Catholics are in no position to criticize
I have shown you a mountain of objective evidence that Catholicism is not hostile toward Eastern traditions, and you have responded using only your own anecdotal opinion. Dissidents, regardless of them being from the East or West tradition, are not tolerated in the Catholic Church. Ask these guys:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

This has absolutely nothing to do with someone being an Eastern Catholic.
 
Not even the Pope is infallible. The Pope is only infallible when he speaks ex-cathedra and the Magisterium in communion with the Pope. The Fathers of the Church are not infallible. Their writings is not at the level of Sacred Scripture.

They did not always agree with each other. What would be inconsistent is to adopt a body of knowledge that is inconsistent within itself and most importantly; inconsistent with the teachings of the Magisterium of the Church.”
Exactly, if all one goes by is the writing of their select favorite ancient Christian then what is to stop someone from following a heretic like Arius, for example?
 
You are talking as if you can speak for all Eastern Catholics. What about all the Eastern Catholics who are in communion and who actually have no problem with Rome? I have given an example of this, and you choose to ignore all of the evidence I have provide which shows that Eastern Catholicism (the ones in communion with us) has been promoted for decades in the Catholic Church. And where does the Catholic Church say we can believe in “divine energies”?
 
Ryan was complaining about things that aren’t accepted by Rome. This is called dissent. I provided the picture to show dissent within our Western tradition. There are plenty of dissenters in the Western traditions who also protest Rome. It has nothing to do with East vs. West and everything to do with dissent. Rome is equal opportunity when it comes to cracking down on dissent.
 
I have shown you a mountain of objective evidence that Catholicism is not hostile toward Eastern traditions, and you have responded using only your own anecdotal opinion. Dissidents, regardless of them being from the East or West tradition, are not tolerated in the Catholic Church. Ask these guys:

http://extremecatholic.blogspot.com/images/chile_gay_protest.jpg

This has absolutely nothing to do with someone being an Eastern Catholic.
Well, I see no “mountain of objective evidence,” but I’ve not claimed that Catholicism is hostile towards Eastern traditions. My contention is that we are in no position to criticize how some EO might treat their own Western Rite Vicariates based on real history (not just by own anecdotal opinion) of how some of the majority Latin Catholics (in some cases, including the Latin Church hierarchy) have treated, and in some cases, still do treat Eastern Catholics. As to the differentiation that you are attempting to draw between Catholics and the Orthodox based on the differences between what the Vatican teaches and what some individual Catholics do or say, what’s the real point your trying to make? Are you saying that the Catholic Church is entirely benevolent and blameless with respect to how its minority traditions are treated, while the Eastern Orthodox Church is entirely malevolent and blameworthy in how it treats its minority tradition? If so, were is your “mountain of objective evidence?”
 
You are talking as if you can speak for all Eastern Catholics. What about all the Eastern Catholics who are in communion and who actually have no problem with Rome? I have given an example of this, and you choose to ignore all of the evidence I have provide which shows that Eastern Catholicism (the ones in communion with us) has been promoted for decades in the Catholic Church. And where does the Catholic Church say we can believe in “divine energies”?
Where does the Catholic Church say we can’t believe in divine energies? The divine energies of God are a legitimate Byzantine tradition.
 
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