Divorce and the Meaning of Porneia

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I understand it’s a difficult painful topic for many people… i believe that in God’s mercy, He wants to help us in any situation… at the same time I do believe in the Church’s teachings and that He leads us closer to them and helps us to follow them with His grace
 
Thanks. Good article. I appreciated the Canon rule reference from Trent. I never saw that before. I had wondered where an official decree might be found regarding the Traditional doctrine.

This is definitely one of those matters that requires an in depth Scripture study to help understand. I don’t mean a study independent of Church Teaching, but rather a study that helps understand Church Teaching, since the exception clause in Matthew seems to give an exception to divorce and remarry a Christian (Sacramental) marriage.

I’m actually a little impressed that there are a fair number of Protestant churches who take a very similar stance as the Catholic Church! And that is good to see. Though, and as Kliska recognized, many don’t.
 
I agree largely with the Catholic position on divorce and remarriage. However, I part ways when it comes to the bureaucracy and the way in which the RCC handles the annulment process.

Personally, I find large agreement with the way many of the confessional Lutheran bodies handle the situation. From what I understand, adultery and abandonment are the only valid reasons for a divorce (as attested to in Scripture). That being said, it is still their position that the couple with the grievance should still try to work through their issues without divorce. If a divorce is inevitable or if it happens, then remarriage is left up to the local church pastor.

If the pastor knows the people involved, then what better person to make this judgment? In my estimation, the local pastor is going to be in a better position (potentially) to make this call.

Again, while I largely agree with the RCC position, I find the bureaucratic process to be unnecessary. I say let the local parish priest (if he is familiar with the couple and situation) make the call. This is just all my opinion. 🙂
 
I agree largely with the Catholic position on divorce and remarriage. However, I part ways when it comes to the bureaucracy and the way in which the RCC handles the annulment process.

Personally, I find large agreement with the way many of the confessional Lutheran bodies handle the situation. From what I understand, adultery and abandonment are the only valid reasons for a divorce (as attested to in Scripture). That being said, it is still their position that the couple with the grievance should still try to work through their issues without divorce. If a divorce is inevitable or if it happens, then remarriage is left up to the local church pastor.

If the pastor knows the people involved, then what better person to make this judgment? In my estimation, the local pastor is going to be in a better position (potentially) to make this call.

Again, while I largely agree with the RCC position, I find the bureaucratic process to be unnecessary. I say let the local parish priest (if he is familiar with the couple and situation) make the call. This is just all my opinion. 🙂
It seems to me like you are speaking about two different things here… separation, and annulment. I don’t know the Catholic procedure for separation but this is something different from annulment… it might not be the same process. Annulment is such a major process because the Church needs to figure out if there even was a marriage in the first place, and if there was then the annulment is not granted - then if the couple separates, they can’t remarry anyone else
 
It seems to me like you are speaking about two different things here… separation, and annulment. I don’t know the Catholic procedure for separation but this is something different from annulment… it might not be the same process. Annulment is such a major process because the Church needs to figure out if there even was a marriage in the first place, and if there was then the annulment is not granted - then if the couple separates, they can’t remarry anyone else
I’m speaking of mostly divorce and then remarriage. From what I understand, if there is just a separation and no remarriage (while certainly not ideal), then the situation is much different.

I’m arguing for allowing the local pastor/priest the power to make the determination regarding a remarriage. I believe that if the local pastor knows the couple and situation, then why not allow him the determination? In cases where the local pastor is not familiar with the couple or situation or simply wants to be excused for other reasons, then another process would be needed to step in to make the determination.
 
I’m speaking of mostly divorce and then remarriage. From what I understand, if there is just a separation and no remarriage (while certainly not ideal), then the situation is much different.

I’m arguing for allowing the local pastor/priest the power to make the determination regarding a remarriage. I believe that if the local pastor knows the couple and situation, then why not allow him the determination? In cases where the local pastor is not familiar with the couple or situation or simply wants to be excused for other reasons, then another process would be needed to step in to make the determination.
I believe there does need to be support of a pastor to initiate the process… but there are probably practical reasons for not having the pastor decide the matter.

It shouldn’t be just one person, it could cause strife in the parish, maybe scandal of bribes, etc
 
I believe there does need to be support of a pastor to initiate the process… but there are probably practical reasons for not having the pastor decide the matter.

It shouldn’t be just one person, it could cause strife in the parish, maybe scandal of bribes, etc
I think you are 100% correct about the short-comings of allowing the local pastor more power over this process, however, I think that if a pastor can’t pastor his church, then perhaps he shouldn’t be a pastor. I think there should be safe guards against the things you mention (bribe, scandal, bias). I think that both the pastor should be allowed to excuse himself if he feels like he is too close and it could impact his findings and I think that the parishioners filing should have the same option, if they think pastor bias etc. could have an impact.

That being said, the annulment bureaucracy is not immune from many of these concerns either. If, for example, you have someone with celebrity, power, or the ‘right’ connections, it seems that the annulment process is prone to abuse and abuse has no doubt certainly occurred (in some cases).

There is no perfect system and I am more or less thinking out loud, but I think pastors should pastor the congregation. I also think that any church should be pastoral in response to such difficult circumstances.
 
I think you are 100% correct about the short-comings of allowing the local pastor more power over this process, however, I think that if a pastor can’t pastor his church, then perhaps he shouldn’t be a pastor. I think there should be safe guards against the things you mention (bribe, scandal, bias). I think that both the pastor should be allowed to excuse himself if he feels like he is too close and it could impact his findings and I think that the parishioners filing should have the same option, if they think pastor bias etc. could have an impact.

That being said, the annulment bureaucracy is not immune from many of these concerns either. If, for example, you have someone with celebrity, power, or the ‘right’ connections, it seems that the annulment process is prone to abuse and abuse has no doubt certainly occurred (in some cases).

There is no perfect system and I am more or less thinking out loud, but I think pastors should pastor the congregation. I also think that any church should be pastoral in response to such difficult circumstances.
 
I agree largely with the Catholic position on divorce and remarriage. However, I part ways when it comes to the bureaucracy and the way in which the RCC handles the annulment process.

Personally, I find large agreement with the way many of the confessional Lutheran bodies handle the situation. From what I understand, adultery and abandonment are the only valid reasons for a divorce (as attested to in Scripture). That being said, it is still their position that the couple with the grievance should still try to work through their issues without divorce. If a divorce is inevitable or if it happens, then remarriage is left up to the local church pastor.

If the pastor knows the people involved, then what better person to make this judgment? In my estimation, the local pastor is going to be in a better position (potentially) to make this call.

Again, while I largely agree with the RCC position, I find the bureaucratic process to be unnecessary. I say let the local parish priest (if he is familiar with the couple and situation) make the call. This is just all my opinion. 🙂
When taking into account all gospels, Jesus seems to be prohibiting divorce in** all situations. The exception for* porneia,*** in Matthew is Jesus saying there is no need for a divorce,*** because in reality there was no marriage,*** which the annulment process conforms to nicely.

If Jesus is saying there is an exception for adultery, one must wonder why the Apostles would: a.) Be shocked at his answer, as this was the exact prevailing opinion of one of the Jewish schools of thought (Shammai). And in this context, since He would be agreeing with this train of thought, then certainly those who agreed and taught the exception for adultery (Shammai), then their hearts must not have been hardened as pertained to divorce, as Jesus would be parroting their position.

b.) Why would the Apostles say it was better not to marry, if the exception for adultery still stands?

c.) Jesus never says that he agreed with Shammai on this issue, which is odd, when he was basically asked which teaching on divorce was correct.

We would disagree as to what you say Scripture attests to. We think Jesus says: if the marriage is valid, there are no valid reasons for a divorce!!
 
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