Divorce, no annulment, and the sacraments

[Theophilus777]

I had originally asked this question in the Ask An Apologist folder but never received an answer. Both my parents are divorced and remarried. They never had an annulment, and to be honest there really isn’t any way their marriage was invalid anyway, and I can claim to know this because I was there to witness 24 years of it. They separated when I was 24, divorced the same year. Both are since remarried. My mother did not marry a Catholic and of course, without an annulment did not communicate on those rare occasions when she did attend Mass. My father married his girlfriend in a civil marriage(courthouse) and attends Mass on Sundays. Both he and his new wife communicate. He tells me that they sleep in separate bedrooms and do not have “relations” but otherwise are husband and wife. I might also add that this has not always been the case.
This is all very confusing to me, and my parents are both over 65 and so I’m at a loss as to how to deal with this. Isn’t remarriage without having received an annulment adultery? Isn’t it mortal sin? My mother believes so, but my father and his new wife do not. Either my mother is denying herself the Eucharist unnecessarily or my father is receiving the Eucharist unworthily. In either case, they are my parents and I am concerned for their souls. Otherwise it would really be none of my business.
It seems to me that if divorce and remarriage without an annulment isn’t permitted by the Church, then there aren’t any loopholes which would permit one to remarry and remain in good standing with the church sacramentally. Is this sort of thing on a case by case basis or is there merely a general rule which states whether you can communicate regardless of any of the details? I might add that my father didn’t remarry until he was in his 70’s and thus the whole matter of conjugal rights is pretty much not an issue, thus they sleep in separate bedrooms. However, chastity with his new wife is a fairly new thing due to his age, and they have not been chaste in the past. Whereas my mother remarried about five years after the divorce(which was more than 20 years ago) and never bothered with any restraint. I am trying to give these details in a polite way because I think they are necessary in order to get an answer.
So with all of that said, do my parents have valid marriages in the eyes of the Church and what is their standing in regard to the church, and also what is their standing in regard to salvation. Isn’t remarriage without an annulment after a divorce a mortal sin? And if they cannot communicate validly, what would they have to do in order to communicate validly?

 

[Phemie]

In order for the marriages to be valid they would need to petition for and be granted a decree of nullity. Then they would have to convalidate their marriages (get married in the Church).

Yes, as far as the Church is concerned your mother is committing adultery against your father each time she has relations with her ‘husband’. She obviously understands that and refrains from receiving Communion.

Your dad, OTOH, may well have confessed and been granted absolution of his past sins and, since he and his ‘wife’ are now living as brother and sister, been told by his confessor that he may receive Communion.

As for the validity of their marriage to each other, you cannot judge that by what you saw. Validity depends on things that were going on when they took their vows, not on things that happened during the marriage.

 

[1ke]

They never had an annulment, and to be honest there really isn’t any way their marriage was invalid anyway, and I can claim to know this because I was there to witness 24 years of it.

Actually, you don’t know that. I suggest that you read the book Annulment: The Wedding That Was by Michael Smith Foster to help you understand nullity better. It is possible that there was an impediment to validity that you are unaware of. It is also possible that you are correct and their marriage is valid.

This is all very confusing to me, and my parents are both over 65 and so I’m at a loss as to how to deal with this.

You charitably pray for them, and if asked you suggest they talk to their priest.

Isn’t remarriage without having received an annulment adultery? Isn’t it mortal sin? My mother believes so, but my father and his new wife do not. Either my mother is denying herself the Eucharist unnecessarily or my father is receiving the Eucharist unworthily. In either case, they are my parents and I am concerned for their souls. Otherwise it would really be none of my business.

It isn’t your business, actually. You don’t know what guidance your father has received from his priest in the confessional. Yes, it is possible that after sacramental confession and a committment to living in continence your father can receive the Eucharist once again. Again, this would be under the direction of his priest in confession and NOT your business.

This document discusses Communion for the divorced and “remarried”:

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_14091994_rec-holy-comm-by-divorced_en.html

It seems to me that if divorce and remarriage without an annulment isn’t permitted by the Church, then there aren’t any loopholes which would permit one to remarry and remain in good standing with the church sacramentally. Is this sort of thing on a case by case basis or is there merely a general rule which states whether you can communicate regardless of any of the details? I might add that my father didn’t remarry until he was in his 70’s and thus the whole matter of conjugal rights is pretty much not an issue, thus they sleep in separate bedrooms. However, chastity with his new wife is a fairly new thing due to his age, and they have not been chaste in the past.

Why on earth are you in the details of your father’s sex life? Yuck.

Whereas my mother remarried about five years after the divorce(which was more than 20 years ago) and never bothered with any restraint. I am trying to give these details in a polite way because I think they are necessary in order to get an answer.

No, they aren’t. You simply direct your parents to their priest.

So with all of that said, do my parents have valid marriages in the eyes of the Church and what is their standing in regard to the church, and also what is their standing in regard to salvation. Isn’t remarriage without an annulment after a divorce a mortal sin? And if they cannot communicate validly, what would they have to do in order to communicate validly?

Yes, they have a valid marriage unless it is examined by the Tribunal and found to be invalid.

And, you can read the document I linked to and the book I suggested to get some additional information.

To resolve the situation, your parents would need to speak to their priest(s) to pursue a decree of nullity or discuss with their priest other options such as the one your father is currently pursuing, continence.

 

[Theophilus777]

Actually, you don’t know that. I suggest that you read the book Annulment: The Wedding That Was by Michael Smith Foster to help you understand nullity better. It is possible that there was an impediment to validity that you are unaware of. It is also possible that you are correct and their marriage is valid.

*I understand the principle of impediments but considering that they knew each other since they were small children, having grown up together, then “fell in love” I think that it’s pretty much a guess. But then I would not leave the state of my soul up for guesswork. Nor would I encourage anyone else to guess as to the state of their soul. Don’t you agree that we should have some degree of certainty? If not, why seek direction from the priest in the confessional. We have the sacraments so that we can in fact have some degree of certainty as to the condition of our lives in the moral realm. *

You charitably pray for them, and if asked you suggest they talk to their priest.

Yes, I have prayed for them for most of my life. And the other members of my family likewise.

It isn’t your business, actually. You don’t know what guidance your father has received from his priest in the confessional. Yes, it is possible that after sacramental confession and a committment to living in continence your father can receive the Eucharist once again. Again, this would be under the direction of his priest in confession and NOT your business.

*Yes, I agree. There’s enough on my plate as it is, let alone feel obligated to preside over someone else’s plate, but I love my parents. That’s why I asked the question. If they are misled I would want to intercede for them in my personal prayer at the very least. So then I think we are able to have a general idea about the rightness or the wrongness of something in order to do exactly that. Which is why I am asking this question in a rather anonymous fashion. *
This document discusses Communion for the divorced and “remarried”:

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_14091994_rec-holy-comm-by-divorced_en.html

Why on earth are you in the details of your father’s sex life? Yuck.

My father and mother were my first teachers regarding sex. Regarding morality. Now that we are adults we can talk about such things. If you think having a conversation with your parents about sex is “yucky” then that is your opinion. But sex itself is not yucky and it can be discussed in a holy and respectful manner with another adult, your parents no less.

No, they aren’t. You simply direct your parents to their priest.

**

Yes, they have a valid marriage unless it is examined by the Tribunal and found to be invalid.

And, you can read the document I linked to and the book I suggested to get some additional information.

To resolve the situation, your parents would need to speak to their priest(s) to pursue a decree of nullity or discuss with their priest other options such as the one your father is currently pursuing, continence.

Thank you so much for taking the time to respond. While this response is meant to clarify certain points raised, I am no less grateful to you for taking the time to respond.

 

[Theophilus777]

Why on earth are you in the details of your father’s sex life? Yuck.

We are both adults. My dad and I talk about things. He was the one who taught me about the facts of generation. Why would it be yucky for someone to have a conversation with their parents about sex? It certainly isn’t the first time. I love my mom and my dad, every more so now that I am middle aged. Whatever discussions I do have with my parents about sex is in a general and not a specific sense. Mature adults can discuss such things with reverence and dignity. Your answer was very good except for this statement. Sex is not yucky. God created it. And if you can’t talk about sex with your father, then who can you talk about it with?

 

[1ke]

We are both adults. My dad and I talk about things. He was the one who taught me about the facts of generation. Why would it be yucky for someone to have a conversation with their parents about sex?

There is a difference between a parent talking with their child to explain the facts of human sexuality and discussing their **own **sex life with their child.

It certainly isn’t the first time. I love my mom and my dad, every more so now that I am middle aged. Whatever discussions I do have with my parents about sex is in a general and not a specific sense. Mature adults can discuss such things with reverence and dignity. Your answer was very good except for this statement. Sex is not yucky. God created it. And if you can’t talk about sex with your father, then who can you talk about it with?

Your prior post implied a specific sense, not generalities. Thanks for the explanation.

 

[puzzleannie]

I This is all very confusing to me, and my parents are both over 65 and so I’m at a loss as to how to deal with this.?

there is nothing for you to deal with.
there is matter for each of your parents to deal with, but it is beyond the scope of your need to know, since it is matter, potentially, for confession.

Your father shared more than he has to about his situation, but he gave you enough information to put your mind at rest and to show he knows perfectly well what his situation is and is doing the best he can at this time.

Leave it to your parents, their individual consciences, and their respective pastors. If either of them had wanted to convalidate their current marriages they would have applied for annulments. they have not, but that is their concern, not yours, as your status is not affected either way. You have no knowledge whatever of whether their first marriage was valid because you were not there at the time. Best for children to stay out of their parents’ marital issues. It sounds like you have a loving concern for their spiritual welfare, but just as parents are limited in how much help they can be to their adult children, the children are also limited.

 

[Theophilus777]

Thank you, everyone for your replies. My parents do not have an annulment. They have been divorced for 27 years. They are both remarried. My father and his new wife do not have a Catholic marriage. They both attend Mass on Sunday. They both communicate. The pastor of the church does not know that they have both had Catholic marriages to other partners nor does he know that they do not have a sacramental marriage.

This is a problem, despite some of your replies to the contrary. I have close friends who are both baptized and confirmed Catholics who left the church some years back, married each other in a non denominational Protestant church, then after a spell returned to the Catholic Church. Their pastor told them they must not communicate until they have their marriage sacramentalized.

So then it does matter. My father and stepmother communicate regularly and they do not have a sacramental marriage.

Judging by your answers I think that perhaps some persons who have responded have not thoroughly understood the circumstance.

With all respect, would it be possible to get a response from someone who knows what they’re talking about?

 

[Roy5]

What did Jesus say? “Judge not that ye be not judged!” Your parents did what they did, and relax. For beginners, Jesus never said that adultery was an unforgiveable sin. God help millions upon millions upon millions if it is.

The annulment process is really a church-sanctioned divorce. Some priests or lay persons decide that the original marriage was somehow invalid. Often this is not valid - well, in my mind. Often marriages were perfectly fine when they occurred, but the couple or circumstances changed. That's humanity for you. We're complex creatures.

 After all - kidding here, of course - but who was the wisest man in the world according to the Bible? Solomon. He had 700 wives and 300 concubine!. And King David committed adultery with Bathsheba, deliberately had her husband killed so that he could marry her, and is hailed even today as the greatest king of Israel! 

 We've all fallen short, and I would sleep soundly and not worry about the eternal fate of your parents. If King David is going to be in heaven, I even expect to make it. We're justified by our simple faith, St. Paul tells us, and thank God for that. 

  Yesterday was National Smile Day. Hope you keep smiling.

 

[Phemie]

Regardless of what you may think you know, you don’t know what your father & his ‘wife’ have shared with their confessors since you were not there.

No one want to think of their parents as headed for hell, but at this point in their lives the only thing you can do is pray for them and hope they’ll all end up doing the right thing.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

The one loophole is…I suppose…they could just do confession every Sunday morning, before communion, confess the “sin”…and then they can go ahead and get communion, etc…

But I assume this would be considered a not-good thing to do…

You would be assuming correctly. We do not go to confession merely to get a hall pass for communion, and then go on sinning in exactly the same way. Part of an act of contrition is to repent of the sin and promise God to try your best not to sin again. Not thinking, “Well, I’m good for another few days and then back to the confessional!”

 

[1ke]

With all respect, would it be possible to get a response from someone who knows what they’re talking about?

You already have.

I suggest you read the document I linked to.

 

[Razor]

Sorry for the very old reply but I am sure this is not the last time folks will read this thread.

Catholic teaching tells us that marriage is a lifelong endeavor (CCC 2382). It does not matter if the spouses are perfect–or just how imperfect they are. It does not matter if there is a “better” spouse out there somewhere (there ALWAYS is). It does not matter if one or both spouses is no longer happy. Catholic teaching clearly states if you divorce your spouse you commit a grave sin (CCC 2384) which satisfies the first criteria for mortal sin. If the other criteria for mortal sin are present (full knowledge and deliberate consent–CCC 1857), then it is a mortal sin. If you die with mortal sin you go to hell (CCC 1035). Even going to confession does not absolve you of this sin because penance requires contrition (CCC 1451) and you are required to do what is possible to repair the harm (CCC 1459). Nowhere in official Catholic doctrine is a person given permission to divorce and abandon their spouse with the exception of CCC 2383 (“ensuring certain legal rights”, etc.).

Jesus gave the keys of heaven to Paul (Matt 16:19). This means that, whatever the church teaches (the OFFICIAL teaching, not the teaching of some errant layman or clergyman or “senior member” of some Catholic apologetics forum) is bound by God to be valid. So, it doesn’t matter what you or I believe–or want to believe–or what we think God believes–or what makes us “happy” . . . it matters what the church teaches. The Bible, Canon Law and the Catechism, are indispensable for understanding the true teaching of the Catholic church. We must be very careful in this day and age to discern the truth–especially regarding the true Catholic teachings of the Sacrament of Marriage which has been so poorly catechized. If we read or are told something contrary to official church teaching, we must disregard it–no matter how much we WANT to believe it is true.

So, when you get advice from folks, kindly ask them for a reference to the OFFICIAL church doctrine as I have given above. If they don’t give you a reference for whatever reason then you have the choice to believe them outright (which is very foolish) or research it for yourself. The catechism is on-line and has a very nice search feature. You can search any word by the first letter and get a list of every place it is used with a few words before and after for context. Canon Law has the same search feature. The USCCB has a bible search feature. Very handy!!!

My advice to you is to read the Catechism of the Catholic Church–and then believe what you read there even if you don’t like what it says. Start with the paragraphs I mentioned above and the surrounding paragraphs. The entire book is a wonderful way to learn the Catholic faith but answers to your specific questions can be found in the sections on the Sacrament of Marriage and then the sixth and ninth commandments. You can read all of that in a couple hours. The section on the Sacraments of Reconciliation and Eucharist would also be very helpful to you. I usually keep “dictionary.com” open in another window because it is not uncommon to run across some words I don’t understand–but, in general, it is not difficult reading. There are also many links in the CCC to other church documents that support what the Catechism is saying.

Every day I pray for all the souls living the nightmare of divorce and annulment–and all the folks who it affects. I will add yours.

 

[Elizium23]

The pastor of the church does not know that they have both had Catholic marriages to other partners nor does he know that they do not have a sacramental marriage.

This is a problem, despite some of your replies to the contrary. I have close friends who are both baptized and confirmed Catholics who left the church some years back, married each other in a non denominational Protestant church, then after a spell returned to the Catholic Church. Their pastor told them they must not communicate until they have their marriage sacramentalized.

So then it does matter. My father and stepmother communicate regularly and they do not have a sacramental marriage.

Judging by your answers I think that perhaps some persons who have responded have not thoroughly understood the circumstance.

It appears that you also do not thoroughly understand the distinctions between sacramental and valid. A marriage can be valid but not sacramental. What the pastor told your close friends is that they must convalidate their marriage. Since they were Catholics when it was contracted, it is invalid due to lack of form. A valid marriage between them would be automatically sacramental because they are both baptized. Any valid marriage between two baptized persons is always sacramental, Catholic or not. A valid marriage involving at least one unbaptized person is a natural marriage. But an invalid marriage cannot be either sacramental or natural, because it just isn’t a marriage. Does that make sense now?

And to answer your other question, 1ke is quite adept at answering marriage-related questions and has been doing so for years with extreme reliability. I would rate her as highly knowledgeable, so please take her advice seriously.