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JamesV
Guest
If 2 non catholics marry and later divorce, and one of those individuals converts to Catholicism, will the church view that individual as free to marry or not?
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HopkinsReb
Guest
Depends on the marriage.
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JamesV
Guest
Can you elaborate?
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JulianN
Guest
Assuming that their marriage was the first for both, it would be presumed valid. If they were both baptized Christians, it would also be presumed to be sacramental.
They would need to pursue an investigation to determine freedom to marry.
They would need to pursue an investigation to determine freedom to marry.
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His_helpmeet
Guest
Yes and no.
IF the other party (the non-Catholic one) was not baptized, AND the Catholic party was not the cause of the marriage breakdown, AND the Catholic party wishes to remarry, they MAY be eligible for the Petrine Privilege, or “favour of the faith”. The Pope can permit the valid marriage to be dissolved at the time of the new marriage of the Catholic party.
Otherwise, you’re correct. If both were baptized, or the above requirements don’t apply, then they would need a full investigation.
IF the other party (the non-Catholic one) was not baptized, AND the Catholic party was not the cause of the marriage breakdown, AND the Catholic party wishes to remarry, they MAY be eligible for the Petrine Privilege, or “favour of the faith”. The Pope can permit the valid marriage to be dissolved at the time of the new marriage of the Catholic party.
Otherwise, you’re correct. If both were baptized, or the above requirements don’t apply, then they would need a full investigation.
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JamesV
Guest
No point in beating around the bush…I asked the question on behalf of myself. Conversion is not something I have ruled out or decided upon (as of yet).
It was her second marriage and my first. Both previously baptized (to the best of my knowledge, I know I was)
It was her second marriage and my first. Both previously baptized (to the best of my knowledge, I know I was)
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HopkinsReb
Guest
In that case, I think in the eyes of the church you were never married because she was married to her first husband.
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JulianN
Guest
If she was married before, that marriage would be presumed valid, and she was not free to marry you when you entered into that marriage. You should definitely consult with your priest or a procurator/advocate (should you decide to convert) to resolve this.
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JamesV
Guest
When I married (and later divorced), neither person was or had ever been Catholic. Catholicism is only entering into the equation years after the divorce.
The ceremony was performed by a female minister as well.
The ceremony was performed by a female minister as well.
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HopkinsReb
Guest
I don’t think either of those things factor in.
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JulianN
Guest
It wouldn’t have mattered who the minister was, nor even if there was one. If you were not Catholic, you were not bound to observe the Catholic form of marriage. However, in your case, it’s your ex-wife’s previous marriage that would cause your marriage to her to be questionable.
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JamesV
Guest
So you’re saying that a marriage and subsequent divorce prior to one’s conversion doesn’t count?
I’m fairly confident that her first husband was not Catholic.
I’m fairly confident that her first husband was not Catholic.
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HopkinsReb
Guest
No, the idea is that her first marriage is presumed to be valid, which would render your marriage to her invalid. So by that view she’s still married to the first guy and you’ve never been married.
The Catholic church does not only recognize Catholic marriages.
When JulianN says that non-Catholics are not bound to observe the Catholic form of marriage, it’s referring to the validity of non-Catholic marriages, not invalidity.
The Catholic church does not only recognize Catholic marriages.
When JulianN says that non-Catholics are not bound to observe the Catholic form of marriage, it’s referring to the validity of non-Catholic marriages, not invalidity.
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JamesV
Guest
Well, since she had been married previously, I think that may likely be my “way out” of the dilemma. I’m going to refer the matter to a local priest for an “official” answer.
I do appreciate everyone’s (name removed by moderator)ut.
I do appreciate everyone’s (name removed by moderator)ut.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
What will likey happen, each marriage starting from the first will have a review.
Prayers and know that God wants this to work out
Prayers and know that God wants this to work out
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JulianN
Guest
Sorry, I confused a couple of things in one post.
As @HopkinsReb said, the validity or not of your marriage won’t depend on who the minister was, or even if it was in a church. If you’d both been, say, Lutherans, you could have married down at a courthouse and your marriage would be considered valid and sacramental by the Catholic Church.
In your case, though, it’s your ex-wife’s first marriage that is presumed valid. When you had your wedding to her, the Church would presume you were not free to marry, because she was married to someone else.
As @HopkinsReb said, the validity or not of your marriage won’t depend on who the minister was, or even if it was in a church. If you’d both been, say, Lutherans, you could have married down at a courthouse and your marriage would be considered valid and sacramental by the Catholic Church.
In your case, though, it’s your ex-wife’s first marriage that is presumed valid. When you had your wedding to her, the Church would presume you were not free to marry, because she was married to someone else.
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Wesrock
Guest
These are complicated situations. It sounds like your wife being married and divorced before you married her could be grounds for the Church to declare your marriage to her annulled, but this needs to be discussed with a priest. Plus, there are things such as the Petrine privilege which could be invoked, but that’s well beyond my pay grade.
Overall, it’s not something we can definitively advise you on.
Overall, it’s not something we can definitively advise you on.
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JamesV
Guest
I’d just like to add the disclaimer that I’m currently reevaluating my faith (or lack thereof) and that it seems I’m being pulled towards catholicism.
One’s faith is obviously not something to be taken lightly, so I’m trying to be thorough.
One’s faith is obviously not something to be taken lightly, so I’m trying to be thorough.
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PaulfromIowa
Guest
Non-Christians contract valid natural marriages. Baptized Christians, whether Protestant, Orthodox, or Catholic, marry validly and sacramentally, provided they are properly disposed and free to marry. You may have grounds for a declaration of nullity in that your wife was not free to marry you. Consult a Catholic pastor.
I would also find a good book on the Catholic understanding of marriage.
I would also find a good book on the Catholic understanding of marriage.
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1ke
Guest
Marriage situations are unique and individual. Therefore it is always best to sit down with your local pastor, do an interview, and discuss the particulars. He will then guide you as to what is needed.
Basically before anyone can marry in the Catholic Church there is a determination of freedom to marry. If one or both parties have been married before, their marriage situation needs to be documented and investigated. Depending on the specific circumstances, there are then about 4 or 5 ways that things proceed.
These links are to two different charts that might help explain the basics.
Ligamen (prior bond) for cases in which one spouse was previously married:
http://www.dioceseofbaker.org/tribunal/MarriageNullityDueToPriorBond2013.pdf
General chart on all types of nullity cases:
https://www.archdioceseofanchorage.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/GuideNulity2010.pdf
The best course of action is to meet with the local pastor to ask questions. People here will try to give you answers, but really we can’t because we don’t know all the details and they matter.
Basically before anyone can marry in the Catholic Church there is a determination of freedom to marry. If one or both parties have been married before, their marriage situation needs to be documented and investigated. Depending on the specific circumstances, there are then about 4 or 5 ways that things proceed.
These links are to two different charts that might help explain the basics.
Ligamen (prior bond) for cases in which one spouse was previously married:
http://www.dioceseofbaker.org/tribunal/MarriageNullityDueToPriorBond2013.pdf
General chart on all types of nullity cases:
https://www.archdioceseofanchorage.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/GuideNulity2010.pdf
The best course of action is to meet with the local pastor to ask questions. People here will try to give you answers, but really we can’t because we don’t know all the details and they matter.
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