Divorce

[muffindell]

After 12 years of marriage and my ex-wifes second affair my local priest said that things could not continue, he suggested that I only had one option which was divorce.
Five years past after the divorce and I met what is now my wife. I went down the path of dissolving my marriage, being told that there shouldn’t be a problem and also relieving me of several hundred pounds in the process. The verdict came back that the marriage could not be desoulved, despite my ex-wife being guilty. Because of the outcome I remarried in a Cof E church to my lovely wife, have had a child and my children from my previous marriage live with us.
I was always under the impression that God forgives all, that Jesus said those without sin can cast the first stone, that Matthew said ‘But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery’. So I speak for many in this situation, why can the rules of mortal man overturn what God and others have taught us. This is another case of doctrum fitting the agenda to what is written. You could call it a misinterpretation for no reason.
I cannot receive Holy Communion, I cannot have my marriage blessed in the Catholic church, I am obviously a sinner, I’m obvously the guilty party, the Catholic church doesn’t want me; but I do know in my own heart that I have not done anything wrong, I know that God knows this and forgives me for what I have done. However the Catholic church seems to think that it is higher than God and does not forgive me. In the mean time I take Holy Communion in the local C of E church, I am welcomed there. It’s all so sad what man has done to such a great religion. The mother church needs a rethink before they turn there back on many more people like myself.

 

[Rascalking]

The mother church needs a rethink before they turn there back on many more people like myself.

I hear you my friend. I’m a bachelor and I’ve never been marrried, so I can’t really relate-but your in my prayers.

 

[Jeanne_S]

My niece married a divorced man.The cause of divorce,like yours was do to infidelity by his wife.When he first tried to obtain an annulment,he too was denied.That was in Colorado.They then moved to Nevada.Hevwas granted an annulment there with no problem.I am not suggesting you move to a different state,however,it seems that the criterion for annulment is subject to change depending who hears your case.God Bless,Jeanne

 

[Luvtosew]

I don’t blame you for being upset. Sounds like you were tying to do what is right, spent money only to be turned away. I think I would file some sort of complaint.
What is local C of E church?

 

[DJgang]

This is sad.

I must be honest, the episcopal church that I was once a member of had a generous amount of those in situations like yours, as well as, situations where they didn’t try to reconcile with the Catholic Church.

 

[Gorgias]

The verdict came back that the marriage could not be desoulved, despite my ex-wife being guilty.

I would presume that, given that infidelity was present, there must be more to the story of why the petition to annul the marriage was denied. Mind you, I’m not asking for those details – I don’t need to know (nor should it be posted on a public forum), and I don’t know how annulments tend to resolve themselves there (in Britain?), but there has to be more to the story.

I’m sorry that things didn’t turn out for you as you might have hoped.

The mother church needs a rethink before they turn there back on many more people like myself.

Did the Church turn its back on you, or did you leave the Church?

 

[Luvtosew]

Well I find this upsetting, when the CC can take Prostestants in and well they may of been divorced but thats ok, no problem. Here he is a Catholic, his wife was unfaithful not once but twice, paid money and then was turned away. There is something terribly wrong with this.

 

[Leegal]

After 12 years of marriage and my ex-wifes second affair my local priest said that things could not continue, he suggested that I only had one option which was divorce.
Five years past after the divorce and I met what is now my wife. I went down the path of dissolving my marriage, being told that there shouldn’t be a problem and also relieving me of several hundred pounds in the process. The verdict came back that the marriage could not be desoulved, despite my ex-wife being guilty. Because of the outcome I remarried in a Cof E church to my lovely wife, have had a child and my children from my previous marriage live with us.
I was always under the impression that God forgives all, that Jesus said those without sin can cast the first stone, that Matthew said ‘But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery’. So I speak for many in this situation, why can the rules of mortal man overturn what God and others have taught us. This is another case of doctrum fitting the agenda to what is written. You could call it a misinterpretation for no reason.
I cannot receive Holy Communion, I cannot have my marriage blessed in the Catholic church, I am obviously a sinner, I’m obvously the guilty party, the Catholic church doesn’t want me; but I do know in my own heart that I have not done anything wrong, I know that God knows this and forgives me for what I have done. However the Catholic church seems to think that it is higher than God and does not forgive me. In the mean time I take Holy Communion in the local C of E church, I am welcomed there. It’s all so sad what man has done to such a great religion. The mother church needs a rethink before they turn there back on many more people like myself.

Talk to another priest. I’m’ not advocating for priest shopping, but only you know the grounds under which the Tribunal took the anullment and why they denied it. Tell him the circumstances – a priest advised you to seek divorce and Catholic anullment due to your ex wife’s repeated behaviors and the anullment was denied. I don’t know if there’s a process for revisiting for error – either error on the part of the priest who advised you to divorce or error on the part of the Tribunal, but it would seem warranted that the priest could bring this up with a Bishop since this is the “rock and the hard place.” What if one is wrongly misguided by a priest and seeks an anullment that is later denied based on that advice?

As I recall, repeated affairs are grounds for anullment, but that may be qualified by whether or not your ex wife had been already engaging, and withholding the information, prior to the marriage. If she had affairs before it might come under fraud as well. Only you know the circumstances. These are the circumstance for anullment.

eaandfaith.blogspot.com/2006/03/marriage-annulment-grounds-in-catholic.html

 

[Tantum_ergo]

While I sympathize with you in your predicament:

1. Priests are not infallible. Certainly you may have thought that he was giving you a guarantee, but NO priest can guarantee that a marriage was ‘not valid’. And this is something that you should have become aware of as you pursued the degree. I know this; I have a decree myself and it was quite evident from the work I did that there was no guarantee. While I am in the U.S. I cannot imagine that the British paperwork is that different, and this was nearly 10 years ago.
2. Again, I hear a lot of “I know I was sincere, I know I’m right, I know God forgives me”. . .all based on feelings.
   While it is possible for the tribunal to make an honest error, the fact is, either you submit (even when you think it is wrong, because you are obedient to legitimate authority and recognize that despite your FEELINGS, you may in fact be wrong!), or you try the bully pulpit to try to make yourself feel justified, and get sympathy. Again, I’m not denying you sympathy, but I’m going to say my sympathy is for your situation and NOT because I feel you were ‘gypped’ by the Church.
   Bottom line --and again, been there, done that. . . you are not the authority. God is. Either you accept His authority which He has given to His Church, or you try to find some way to argue that because of your feelings, your situation, whatever, YOU have become the authority.

Remember, until you received the decree, you were NOT free to date OR to marry. So you are the one who went ‘outside the Church’ to marry this second wife. You put yourself in the situation you are in.

Finally, your exwife’s infidelity has NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH THE VALIDITY OF YOUR MARRIAGE.

Your marriage’s validity rests with the time IT TOOK PLACE; the vows themselves, and whether you and your wife were able to give free full consent to the marriage. If that was the case, what happened IN the marriage, while sad, has NO effect on whether the marriage itself was valid. People don’t seem to understand this so I recommend you do a careful study once again of what constitutes a decree of nullity.

 

[Rascalking]

While I sympathize with you in your predicament:

1. Priests are not infallible. Certainly you may have thought that he was giving you a guarantee, but NO priest can guarantee that a marriage was ‘not valid’. And this is something that you should have become aware of as you pursued the degree. I know this; I have a decree myself and it was quite evident from the work I did that there was no guarantee. While I am in the U.S. I cannot imagine that the British paperwork is that different, and this was nearly 10 years ago.
2. Again, I hear a lot of “I know I was sincere, I know I’m right, I know God forgives me”. . .all based on feelings.
   While it is possible for the tribunal to make an honest error, the fact is, either you submit (even when you think it is wrong, because you are obedient to legitimate authority and recognize that despite your FEELINGS, you may in fact be wrong!), or you try the bully pulpit to try to make yourself feel justified, and get sympathy. Again, I’m not denying you sympathy, but I’m going to say my sympathy is for your situation and NOT because I feel you were ‘gypped’ by the Church.
   Bottom line --and again, been there, done that. . . you are not the authority. God is. Either you accept His authority which He has given to His Church, or you try to find some way to argue that because of your feelings, your situation, whatever, YOU have become the authority.

Remember, until you received the decree, you were NOT free to date OR to marry. So you are the one who went ‘outside the Church’ to marry this second wife. You put yourself in the situation you are in.

Finally, your exwife’s infidelity has NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH THE VALIDITY OF YOUR MARRIAGE.

Your marriage’s validity rests with the time IT TOOK PLACE; the vows themselves, and whether you and your wife were able to give free full consent to the marriage. If that was the case, what happened IN the marriage, while sad, has NO effect on whether the marriage itself was valid. People don’t seem to understand this so I recommend you do a careful study once again of what constitutes a decree of nullity.

The bigger question is “What must the church do to preach and heal people who are divorced from valid marriages?”

It might be fun to lecture them about living a life of solitude, chastity and lonliness, but let’s try to remember that the cross they would have to bare is huge.

 

[graceandglory]

but I do know **in my own heart **that I have not done anything wrong,.

I find this part most concerning. In your heart, you are protesting. That makes you a protestant.

Others of us live lives of celibacy in obedience to the Church.

 

[1ke]

After 12 years of marriage and my ex-wifes second affair my local priest said that things could not continue, he suggested that I only had one option which was divorce.

I am sorry that you wife was not faithful to her vows and sinned in such a way.

Five years past after the divorce and I met what is now my wife. I went down the path of dissolving my marriage, being told that there shouldn’t be a problem and also relieving me of several hundred pounds in the process. The verdict came back that the marriage could not be desoulved, despite my ex-wife being guilty.

I don’t think you properly understand what nullity is and isn’t. Nothing but death can dissolve a valid, sacramental marriage. A tribunal can look at evidence to determine whether or not a valid marriage took place at the time you exchanged your vows.

Your wife’s bad behavior during the marriage does not make the marriage invalid. You are called to forgive and reconcile if possible, and if you must live separately that does NOT dissolve the bond of marriage. Only death can do so.

You have a right to petition the Church to review the circumstances of your marriage to determine if a valid marriage occurred or not. You do not have the right to expect it will be found in your favor nor to pursue another marriage.

I suggest the book Annulment: The Wedding that Was by Michael Smith Foster to help you understand it better.

Because of the outcome I remarried in a Cof E church to my lovely wife, have had a child and my children from my previous marriage live with us.
I was always under the impression that God forgives all, that Jesus said those without sin can cast the first stone, that Matthew said ‘But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery’. So I speak for many in this situation, why can the rules of mortal man overturn what God and others have taught us. This is another case of doctrum fitting the agenda to what is written. You could call it a misinterpretation for no reason.

You are not properly understanding that verse. I am sorry that you decided to remarry and thus put yourself outside the sacraments and in an objective state of serious sin.

You were not free to marry.

the Catholic church doesn’t want me;

This is not true. You chose to separate yourself from the Church. You can always repent and return.

but I do know in my own heart that I have not done anything wrong, I know that God knows this and forgives me for what I have done.

So, why are you posting here?

However the Catholic church seems to think that it is higher than God and does not forgive me.

What you bind on earth is bound in heaven-- this is the authority given to the Church by Christ.

In the mean time I take Holy Communion in the local C of E church, I am welcomed there. It’s all so sad what man has done to such a great religion.

You do not receive the Eucharist, because there is no Eucharist to receive in the church of England. They do not hav valid Holy Orders.

The mother church needs a rethink before they turn there back on many more people like myself.

It’s the othe way around.

 

[Rascalking]

I am sorry that you wife was not faithful to her vows and sinned in such a way.

I don’t think you properly understand what nullity is and isn’t. Nothing but death can dissolve a valid, sacramental marriage. A tribunal can look at evidence to determine whether or not a valid marriage took place at the time you exchanged your vows.

Your wife’s bad behavior during the marriage does not make the marriage invalid. You are called to forgive and reconcile if possible, and if you must live separately that does NOT dissolve the bond of marriage. Only death can do so.

You have a right to petition the Church to review the circumstances of your marriage to determine if a valid marriage occurred or not. You do not have the right to expect it will be found in your favor nor to pursue another marriage.

I suggest the book Annulment: The Wedding that Was by Michael Smith Foster to help you understand it better.

You are not properly understanding that verse. I am sorry that you decided to remarry and thus put yourself outside the sacraments and in an objective state of serious sin.

You were not free to marry.

This is not true. You chose to separate yourself from the Church. You can always repent and return.

So, why are you posting here?

What you bind on earth is bound in heaven-- this is the authority given to the Church by Christ.

You do not receive the Eucharist, because there is no Eucharist to receive in the church of England. They do not hav valid Holy Orders.

It’s the othe way around.

This is what I love about the sacrament of marriage. This poor guy is an innocent victim to his wifes inifelity, and he has to be punished for it! Awesome! While were at it, let’s kick him times!

 

[Luvtosew]

Do you actually think this OP would come on here and lie or stretch the truth, I just can’t believe some of your Holier than thou responses,

why in the heck would he even want to go back to the Church and sit next to some of yous. So much better than everyone else. So rightous.

And I doubt if many of you are receiving the blessed Eucharist as it has done nothing to bring you closer to being Christlike. Maybe their Eucharist is better.

 

[Joe_5859]

Annulments are not really something the Church gives out but something the Church recognizes after careful investigation. It is a statement from the Church that marriage was not validly entered in to because of some impediment at the time vows were exchanged. Marital infidelity after the fact by itself does not indicate invalidity (though it can be evidence of the state of mind of one of the parties at the time marriage was thought to be entered into).

So it’s not a matter of the Church being unfair or wanting people to be in mortal sin. The Church has no power to dissolve valid, sacramental marriages. The Church can only recognize that a valid marriage never existed in the first place.

That said, if you disagree with the initial judgement of your case, you can appeal the decision. Mistakes can happen.

 

[Leegal]

Finally, your exwife’s infidelity has NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH THE VALIDITY OF YOUR MARRIAGE.

But it can. If she was promiscuous, and had affairs, she may not have been in error herself and unable to properly consent to a valid marriage, which is what I think the first priest was thinking.

Error about a quality of a person (Canon 1097, sec. 2)
You or your spouse was intentionally deceived about the presence or absence of a quality in the other. The reason for this deception was to obtain consent to marriage.

Willful exclusion of marital fidelity (Canon 1101, 12)
You or your spouse married intending, either explicitly or implicitly, not to remain faithful.

Insufficient use of reason (Canon 1095, 10)
You or your spouse did not know what was happening during the marriage ceremony because of insanity, mental illness, or a lack of consciousness.

Grave lack of discretionary judgment concerning essential matrimonial rights and duties (Canon 1095, 20)
You or your spouse was affected by some serious circumstances or factors that made you unable to judge or evaluate either the decision to marry or the ability to create a true marital relationship.

Psychic-natured incapacity to assume marital obligations (Canon 1095, 30)
You or your spouse, at the time of consent, was unable to fulfill the obligations of marriage because of a serious psychological disorder or other condition.

Ignorance about the nature of marriage (Canon 1096, sec. 1)
You or your spouse did not know that marriage is a permanent relationship between a man and a woman ordered toward the procreation of offspring by means of some sexual cooperation.

Fraud (Canon 1098) Reasons for Marriage Annulment
You or your spouse was intentionally deceived about the presence or absence of a quality in the other. The reason for this deception was to obtain consent to marriage.

I still think it cannot hurt to find out. Maybe the priest was in error and he sought a divorce upon wrong advice. I don’t know if there’s a condition for that. Maybe she could not consent to a valid marriage because of a tendency to seek sex elsewhere, and she withheld it.

He appears to honestly want to reconcile with the Church and I see no harm in trying to see if there’s an avenue that will allow it to be revisited. Not that we go from diocese to diocese until we get what we want, but if I take this words at face value there may be some error here that warrants him questioning it. Only he knows the basis under which the grounds were presented and why the decision fell out of his favor.

 

[1ke]

This is what I love about the sacrament of marriage. This poor guy is an innocent victim to his wifes inifelity, and he has to be punished for it!

He is not being punished for anything. He freely and of his own accord made a vow when he married. So did she. She behaved badly during their marriage and made disappointing and hurtful choices.

That in NO WAY changes the vow. Bad behavior and sin on the part of spouses does change the fact of the marriage. It requires patience, forebearance, forgiveness, and work on the part of the spouses. When one spouse refuses to reconcile and change, that doesn’t change the fact that they are still married.

Marriage is permanent. Indissoluable. This is God’s law. The Church looked for evidence that no valid marriage occurred and did not find any.

The only thing punishing him is his own expectation that he should be able to “dissolve” the marriage and contract another one. He knows this is not possible, yet he wants to do so therefore he leaves the Church, remarries (thereby committing adultery) and comes here to tell everyone how “unfair” it is.

He made the choice.

 

[Rascalking]

He is not being punished for anything. He freely and of his own accord made a vow when he married. So did she. She behaved badly during their marriage and made disappointing and hurtful choices.

That in NO WAY changes the vow. Bad behavior and sin on the part of spouses does change the fact of the marriage. It requires patience, forebearance, forgiveness, and work on the part of the spouses. When one spouse refuses to reconcile and change, that doesn’t change the fact that they are still married.

Marriage is permanent. Indissoluable. This is God’s law. The Church looked for evidence that no valid marriage occurred and did not find any.

The only thing punishing him is his own expectation that he should be able to “dissolve” the marriage and contract another one. He knows this is not possible, yet he wants to do so therefore he leaves the Church, remarries (thereby committing adultery) and comes here to tell everyone how “unfair” it is.

He made the choice.

Like I said before, he is guilty of nothing but gets punished for it. Regardless of how you try to justify it, the guy did nothing wrong.

I say we punish him anyway for other things that he didn’t do.

 

[1ke]

Like I said before, he is guilty of nothing but gets punished for it. Regardless of how you try to justify it, the guy did nothing wrong.

I say we punish him anyway for other things that he didn’t do.

“We” aren’t punishing him. If you must persist in defining it as ‘punishment’ then look to **God **who is the author of marriage and has revealed to us that marriage is indissoluable and he who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery.

 

[Rascalking]

“We” aren’t punishing him. If you must persist in defining it as ‘punishment’ then look to **God **who is the author of marriage and has revealed to us that marriage is indissoluable and he who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery.

I prefer my option to be as cruel as possible to him. Let’s be legalistic, and not show any compassion at all. It’s fun!