Divorce

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Bryan, take this with a grain of salt, because obviously I don’t know you, but if I’m hearing you correctly, the gist of it is that you want to reunite, your wife or ex-wife does not, and you would like someone with Church authority to tell her she has to.
That isn’t going to happen without a huge interior change in her (for better or for worse), and I can only hope that you have not spent even a fraction of the time you’ve spent here, trying to persuade her, because that would cross the line into stalker territory and only push her further away. You’ve got to give her up into God’s hands. Really give her up. Pray for her, fervently, but leave the rest alone.
I wish you the best.
Good morning Evelyn,

I’ll take it with a shaker full of salt… and we are to be the salt of the earth… I truly appreciate your caring response!

Let’s take it away from my personal situation…

For example, let’s say that John up and abandons Carol and their children. Carol has committed no grave sin worthy of the abandonment but John is just tired of being “harped on” and asked to do so many chores around the house and he is ready for more free time with the buds drinking the buds. He gets the judge to rule that the children should spend half of their lives outside of the marital home and with him in his new bachelor pad.

John has committed a grave sin (as long as you believe marriage is good and that you should honor vows made before God then this should be common sense).

Now, lets say that Carol truly cares for John’s soul. She really does believe that the job of a wife is to help sanctify her husband. She turns to our Blessed Lord’s instructions in Matthew 18:15-17. She approaches John in true charity and explains how this action is sinful and hurting her and their children. John laughs and leaves. Carol then takes the next step and two brothers in Christ go with her to talk to John once more. John doesn’t laugh this time but says, “God is okay with this, I have prayed to Him and He knows my heart.” He leaves without any indication he will repent. Carol then takes the third step and goes to the Church. At that point the priest should then approach John and listen to his side of the story but be rooted in Truth and in this case there is no morally licit reason for the separation.

The priest should care enough about John’s soul to tell him that he should not be receiving Holy Communion while in the midst of this grave sin. And that if he persists in this grave manifest sin then he will need to deny him Holy Communion.

Please understand that it is not Carol, “Wanting the Church to tell John that he must come back.” That is not where Carol’s heart should be. Rather, it is desiring, out of love of her husband’s soul, that the Church help John see that he has placed himself in the midst of a grave sin that needs repented of to come back into full communion with Christ and His Church.

We have a great example of this from times of old (when perhaps there wasn’t as much emphasis placed on not hurting someone’s feelings)…

This is the story of St. Lupus bartleby.com/210/7/241.html

*He spared no pains to save one lost sheep, and his labours were often crowned with a success which seemed miraculous. Among other instances it is recorded that a certain person of his diocess, named Gallus, had forsaken his wife and withdrawn to Clermont. St. Lupus could not see this soul perish, but wrote to St. Sidonius, then bishop of Clermont, a strong letter so prudently tempered with sweetness, that Gallus by reading it was at once terrified and persuaded, and immediately set out to return to his wife. Upon which St. Sidonius cried out: “What is more wonderful than a single reprimand, which both affrights a sinner into compunction, and makes him love his censor!” *

Notice that St. Lupus understood the truth that the fact that Gallus had “forsakedn his wife and withdrawn to Clermont” meant that his “soul” would “perish” without true repentance. St. Lupus spent the time to write a “strong letter so prudently tempered with sweetness” and the bishop actually understood the eternal ramifications of Gallus’ decision and spent the time to place his stamp on it and get it to Gallus.

This, to me, is what shepherds of our Church should be doing… leaving the 99 to save the 1.

Although, sadly, with divorce now days it is like leaving the 77 to go save the 23.

Again, it is important that the abandoned spouse’s heart is not approaching this as a “lets force my spouse to reconcile.” Actually, for most of the abandoned spouses I correspond with their spouses weren’t that pleasant to begin with so reconciliation is not desired other than for the sake of their spouse’s soul and for the children.

And, as you bring up the very good point, that the reconciliation will likely not happen without a “huge interior change.” I am sure in Gallus’s situation, his “interior” was quite “changed” by the truthfully charitable letter from St. Lupus and the bishop (who is also now a saint!). But notice how his “interior” was “changed.” Gallus was first “terrified” and then “persuaded.” It is an unwillingness to send any type of strong message that might “terrify” someone, or “affright a sinner into compunction” that plagues our therapeutisized culture today.

Thankfully, St. Peter didn’t worry about that at Pentecost. He went out and delivered a “strong” message that “pricked the hearts” of many. And that little mustard seed would begin to grow that very day!!!

Bryan

LOVE SO AMAZING
 
Good morning faithsmind, I hope you are well. Thanks, your posts did give me a little “giggle.”

I admittedly do have trouble respecting the American tribunals’ decisions that practically every marriage case they hear they rule that the two were never validly married. Especially in light of the fact that when the Roman Rota hears the second instance, their ruling is often just the opposite…

In an article entitled Rebutting a Rebuttal ( familylifecenter.net/article.asp?artId=64 ) the late (and hopefully saint!) Dr. Robert Vasoli cites a couple of studies that reveal the biases of the American tribunal system…

In the three-year period he chose, the Rota overturned nearly 80 percent of the American decrees of nullity it reviewed. He might also have looked into two surveys by American canonist William A. Varvaro, showing that during the 1980s the Rota, deliberating on U.S. annulments granted on psychological grounds, reversed over 90 percent of them. Incredibly, the Rota’s denial rate and the U.S. affirmative rate nearly matched.

This means that the American tribunal told two people “You were never married.” And then 80-90% of the time the Roman Rota told the same two people, “You were married and therefore still are married.”

If there are some specific “large blanket statements” that you find to be untrue or unfair or misleading or hurtful then please, I ask in all sincerity, point them out to me. We are held accountable for our words and I would appreciate the opportunity to correct or clarify any that need corrected or clarified.

Bryan

LOVE SO AMAZING
NewEnglandPries already did.
 
I just got back from the mountains, and on the way home we were driving between the mountains and the sun looked like a multicolored rainbow above a mountain…I have prayed for you folks today…
Bryan, how about you go and start a thread about whether divorce is right or not and let this thread be about coping and support with divorce and annulment rather than about legalistic issues? I think we have too many focuses on this thread for it to be helpful.
God bless all of you tonight!
 
I am so glad you had a wonderful day in the mountains. I finished a nice paper on the “Wounded Healer” well at least a rough draft and am headed out to celebrate Mardi Gras tomorrow night.
 
I am so glad you had a wonderful day in the mountains. I finished a nice paper on the “Wounded Healer” well at least a rough draft and am headed out to celebrate Mardi Gras tomorrow night.
Was that the one by Henry Nouwen? What did you think of it?
 
Was that the one by Henry Nouwen? What did you think of it?
We aren’t reading the full book - only excerpts of it. I like it from what I have read. I think I would find it a more worthwhile experience if I was reading the entire book but right now I just don’t have time for outside reading. We have three full books we are going through in this class plus partials and then I have a whole other class.
 
You know it is funny - Almost a year after the actual divorce and well over a year since the separation my priest has given me interesting penance - to own my pain. I guess I have been dealing with everything day to day and trying to survive that there have only been little cracks. Owning my pain and really letting that out anywhere but counseling has not really been an option. just one of those interesting things I thought of as you posted.
Ok, I am thinking in some way of how to combine this post with your last post about the wounded healer. I am thinking that in order to help others heal, we heal our own pain, and that is done by owning it. How can you go about owning your pain (other than therapy) or maybe in other words, how can you accept healing from our Lord? What are things you do that are healing?
 
Ok, I am thinking in some way of how to combine this post with your last post about the wounded healer. I am thinking that in order to help others heal, we heal our own pain, and that is done by owning it. How can you go about owning your pain (other than therapy) or maybe in other words, how can you accept healing from our Lord? What are things you do that are healing?
Most of it is ministry. Talking about it is another. Building the support group was another. I don’t think other than therapy is really fair though. Monthly Reconciliation has been another. Much of it I think from what my priest was getting at is that it is ok to have the feelings that I do, it is ok to be angry when I am angry and am sad when I am sad and that does not make it a sin or mean that I have been any less forgiving.
 
Most of it is ministry. Talking about it is another. Building the support group was another. I don’t think other than therapy is really fair though. Monthly Reconciliation has been another. Much of it I think from what my priest was getting at is that it is ok to have the feelings that I do, it is ok to be angry when I am angry and am sad when I am sad and that does not make it a sin or mean that I have been any less forgiving.
I wasn’t meaning that therapy isnt helpful…I just was looking for additional ideas of ways that people embrace healing… how is it that healing can be made concrete in our everyday lives?
 
Hello folks. I’m just recalling this difficult thread from when I first joined this site 3 years ago. I came here looking for answers and community from a divorce that was rocking my world. I felt judged and outcast from a portion of church members, and no longer felt that I fit in. What I didn’t realize was that my view of what the church was, was partially wrong. Pope Francis was such a comfort when he told us that the church is a “field hospital for sinners”, addressing those things that don’t make sense in a scientific and utilitarian-based culture; broken hearts. Let’s recall what he has to say: madisoncatholicherald.org/opinion/editorial/4364-09-26-2013-editorial.html

Anyhow, I wanted to share a new program with everyone of you passionate souls on this thread. It’s a series that has been developed by a lady named Rose Sweet: catholicsdivorce.com to find more info.
I am starting up a support group in my parish now which is based on this series, and challenge everyone of you here to do the same. The site has all the materials and guidelines you will need to do your work.

Let’s be a force for change, truly living the message instead of sitting back and critiquing.
 
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