Divorce

  • Thread starter Thread starter buc_fan33
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
B

buc_fan33

Guest
Hi. I’m wondering if anyone has any good information on divorce rates in the United States, preferably something secular. I want to preach on it at Mass this weekend, as it is very appropriate to the Gospel, but I think the message will resonate better with some solid data to back it up. As I said, I’d like it to be secular, so people can’t just dismiss it ad hoc, on the basis of it being from the Family Life Office or something. I’ve heard the statistic that 50% of marriages end in divorce, but I’ve never seen any hard evidence backing that up.

Thanks!
 
Are you clergy since you preaching at Mass?
Yes. I’m a priest.

I thought about playing along and pretending to be a layman being asked to preach on my own personal experience of marriage and divorce, but, I decided not to lie.
 
Yes. I’m a priest.

I thought about playing along and pretending to be a layman being asked to preach on my own personal experience of marriage and divorce, but, I decided not to lie.
Have you heard of That Man Is You?

If not, our Msgr. around the church introduced it 3 years ago and it is a great program with a lot of great information about such topics.

Kind of off topic, but it would be great to see that program spread around the nation and I think priests are the perfect group to get it going. It deals a lot with the marriage between man and wife, but explains many of the parallels between the marriage between a priest and his vocation (religious or ordained).

Ite in pace,
Joshua C.
 
Excuse me for drifting off-topic, but…

Milwaukee Bucks?

Tampa Bay Buccaneers?

Ohio State Buckeyes?
 
Have you heard of That Man Is You?

If not, our Msgr. around the church introduced it 3 years ago and it is a great program with a lot of great information about such topics.

Kind of off topic, but it would be great to see that program spread around the nation and I think priests are the perfect group to get it going. It deals a lot with the marriage between man and wife, but explains many of the parallels between the marriage between a priest and his vocation (religious or ordained).

Ite in pace,
Joshua C.
Yes, I’m familiar with it. One of the parishes where I interned at during seminary had a big group that did That Man is You. It’s a great program, along with ENDOW.
 
I thought about playing along and pretending to be a layman being asked to preach on my own personal experience of marriage and divorce, but, I decided not to lie.
You would have been giving cyber-last rites all over CAF!!!😃
 
Divorce - a tough topic. Today I am struggling today with uncharitable words on divorce. Robert Vasoli fans feel the vast majority of annulments granted are wrong, and that most divorces can/should be avoided. Only in “rare” cases is divorce necessary!

When this idea is shopped in this subforum, many chime in with their sorrowful stories of why they had to divorce. But it sways not the Vasoli supporter!

I would have done anything to prevent my own divorce. I had already resigned to reality - an entire life of loneliness. I knew that for him, there would be no repentance, but, I had hope that in old age on his deathbed he might. I trusted God to help me through this life of “for worse” that was my lot, one day at a time.

Yet, I divorced. What an ordeal, but my priest [known in these parts as "the most plain-spoken man in the diocese, and very holy and wise] agrees: this seemed to be God’s will.

I have since learned such nightmare “marriages” are not rare. So many others suffer! In my “security” of my role of a married woman in society, I rather thought those divorced people were moral weaklings who just gave up too easy. Unlike me! So a great lesson in that department. I knew how others judged me, because I once judged that way.

These harsh judgers of divorce often draw the line at “broken bones” only, yet, those who have been thru it all agree: the verbal abuse is far worse than the broken bones. It is. I know; I lived with verbal abuse. Many suffer this invisible abuse!

Marriage is not supposed to be a safe and secret place for a man (or woman) to beat up his wife’s (or husband’s) soul, a God-ordained place he can do that, and the wife can’t leave without accusations of God’s wrath by judgers.

I believe the people serving on Tribunals know about real life; they know real people. They are not ivory tower scholars. Yes, Vasoli has some inside-scoop on what happens in “mysterious” (to us regular folk) tribunals. However, I don’t think he knows people, and I suspect those on the tribunals do. Yes, and you don’t need a degree in people for this. Vasoli, in his scorching judgement of the tribunals, seems to forget that the Holy Spirit is in the Church.

Many of those who abuse verbally and emotionally are Narcissists, a serious deep disorder, and they don’t get better! In our broken society, there are many of these marrying, and they are incapable to keeping a marraige vow! And, there is no repenting for these! In fact, psychologists don’t even want to see them, they are so resistant to being fixed - they think they are fine! And that’s a requirement for repentance, too - you have to not think you are “fine!” But they are skilled at securing a wife, and then make her life miserable. (And a Narcissist can be the wife, too).

So pontificating that the suffering spouse should wait because the abuser may someday repent is ridiculous. Its like saying a child born without eyes may see someday. Yes, God does those miracles, but He never tells us to expect them! We have to live with reality.

Focusing on ONE aspect of God, that He hates divorce, is off-balance. Its what I call “an orthodox brand of Cafeteria Catholicism”. Yes, one can sku off-course left OR right.

God also hates the sin and brokenness of our society that creates severely broken people who cannot keep marraige vows.

About me. I have fallen in love, completely against my plans for my life, and we are both seeking annulments. I had no plans to ever love again; I thought I would join a convent someday, when my only son gets established in his adult life. I did not want to be alone forever, and a community life in Christ would be a way. Meanwhile, I was determined to get at peace with being alone, and I did. Yet God had another plan for me.

I have plenty of real grounds for annulment - abuse, ex’s personality disorder, but it will likely be granted on the basis of form, which is a Grace, because I hashed through all aspects of my “marriage”, and I won’t have to revisit that. I look forward to the Church granting me the truth: “I was never married”.

The man I love is also a very faithful Catholic. He has prayed the Divine Office in Latin daily for 30 years, since he was studied for the Anglican priesthood (unable to reconcile with where that church was going, he married instead, later converting Catholic.). He has, like me, not dated, and lived chastely - he for 24 years! - committed to faithfulness to his vows after divorce. But he is now sees it should have never been, and likely the Church will agree. Because she “realized” she was gay pretty much immediately, and as soon as she achieved the 2nd pregnancy she desired (pregnancies came immediately after wedding) she was “done” and began a serious of intense lesbian relationships. One just doesn’t “decide” one is gay. Either one has the bent, or they do not.

So we await the church’s judgement on that.

He is not rich by any stretch; we will have to both work at making reasonable security for ourselves. I had security in my “marraige” - misery, but financial security! This is better. He was in a state of ruin in more ways than one when I met him. While not suicidal, he was close to giving up on life then. So MUCH reason for me not to fall for him, besides the fact I didn’t want to fall for anyone! He has since become like a man resurrected. And since that day I fell in love I have learned of our almost perfect psychological compatibility. Its such a gift! We share a desire to live a truly Catholic life, and to love and serve those in our lives. I dare to say that our finding each other and our love for each other is God’s reward for faithfulness. We have given Him that, in our ways unseen to most the world, but God sees all. You see: you can’t out-give God!

THE LOVE AND MERCY OF GOD IS AMAZING!
 
I would ask that whatever you do, you use the power of your position to move the Church to assume its proper role in preserving the sanctity of marriage by enforcing the Church’s rules on separation of the spouses.
 
I would ask that whatever you do, you use the power of your position to move the Church to assume its proper role in preserving the sanctity of marriage by enforcing the Church’s rules on separation of the spouses.
I’m sorry, but I’m not sure what you mean here. Can you elaborate please?
 
I’m sorry, but I’m not sure what you mean here. Can you elaborate please?
Gladly.
  1. Enforce the provisions of canon 1153.1 and 2. Counsel abandoning spouses (well before civil divorce) that they are not free to separate absent a decree from the ordinary except in emergent situations. Establish criteria for ‘emergent’.
  2. Educate yourself and all around you about the inherent unfairness (particularly with respect to men/fathers) of the civil divorce process. Acknowledge that there is a serious problem with perverse incentives that results in 2/3 to 3/4 of all divorces to be filed by women.
  3. Push for reform of civil divorce laws in the same way the Church pushes for reform of other secular laws to eliminate the problems in #2.
  4. Seriously examine the Church’s reliance on the ‘helping’ professions. This overreliance led to a travesty with the abuse scandal. It has also brought us an explosion in annulments. Humans have not changed much in 45 years in terms of their ability to contract marriage except in the Church’s eyes, apparently. This change derives from a number of false premises proffered by the ‘helping’ professions. Why has the Church not distanced itself from the secular with respect to annulments like it did with child abuse (the experts were wrong).
  5. Push for a change in the sequence of divorce/annulment. The civil divorce process destroys marital love. It also exerts pressure on tribunals to issue nullity declarations out of pastoralism.
  6. Read the Vasoli book.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top