Divorce

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Yes you made some good points there, you mentioned
“that is why he directs their attention to In the beginning. Before, the fall, the 2 became 1. He is reestablishing the unitive nature of marriage” Yes Jesus did refer to the beginning and describe how God intended marriage to be, but in the beginning there was not sin or “unfaithfulness” to occur. One of the 10 commandments are, thou shall not commit adultery. Should there not be some consequence of adultery in marriage of this mortal sin? That is why it seems valid to me. If mortal sin seperates us from god (which is why we must go to confession) why then does it not seperate man and woman in marriage, God is greater then any man.

Yes Israel was unfaithful to god and he did not leave the people, but he did leave that church/bride/religion and started a new.

Your thoughts are appreciated.

Thanks
Michael Ivan Mendieta
While mortal sin does separate us from God, confession restores us and reunites us not separating us eternally. There is a consequence to the act of adultery, one must seek forgiveness, and show through their actions they are going to change. A spouse then can imitate Christ in showing mercy. Jesus shows us how to be merciful when someone betrays us, he does not shut them out.

I do not agree that God left Israel, he is still faithful to his covenant forever. He has established a new covenant, but I do not believe he abandoned his convenant with Israel.

Your questions are good, as they force us to better understand the gift God gives us in his teachings. Thanks for the challenge.

God Bless
 
Michael,

Just some additional thoughts here.

There certainly are consequences to adultery which extend beyond the violation of a fairly clear divine commandment as well as the damage done to both parties in a marriage, the family, and the broader community of the Church and society.

The Church will recognize that the innocent party who does not condone or tolerate the adultery may permanently separate (since continuing conjugal life may become too hard and in fact, the adulterous party might have abandoned it), using civil divorce to protect him/herself and any children. Still it always recommends forgiveness and reconciliation.

These were God’s own responses to a faithless Israel (see e.g. Hosea and the prophets in general). Perhaps a most significant additional consequence then arises in an obligation to be perfect (Matthew) and forgiving (Luke) like God.

Can we say that God ever left Israel though? Here I will leave you to ponder what the Church itself teaches about the validity of the Mosaic Covenant, and you can consider it from the Catechism (and probably Romans).

Clearly the Church teaches that adultery and a subsequent civil divorce cannot create the right to enter a subsequent new marriage. That was the point of Jesus’ teaching in those Matthean passage. A valid and binding marriage does not become invalid or non binding by virtue of either civil divorce or adultery.

It is possible, though, that in addition to adultery, something did prevent the parties from giving valid consent to marriage, so that the couple was not truly joined in marriage by God’s sealing of their consent. But that would be subject to the evaluation of Church process. The divine law basically says those whom God has joined together, let no one separate.

Again, do not rely on paraphrase to draw conclusions from scripture. It does not matter that you have read some similar renderings of “porneia.” If something is incorrect and false, it does not become correct and true by repetition. That something is new and modern is no evidence of it being true.

Keep in mind finally, that the interpretation of scripture cannot stand in opposition to the Church, since Divine Revelation was first committed in Sacred Tradition to people (Israel and then the Church established by Christ and filled with the abiding presence of the Spirit). Then the actual Sacred Scriptures were formed by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit in and for the Church. So, we always have to ask, what does this inspired Church teach on this? Is it I who will define truth for myself, or do I turn to the Church?

Similarly, we have to consider how the Church has approved any given translation of the sacred texts. Please consult an approved Catholic translation of scripture.

A final question for you to consider is this. Why do neither Luke nor Mark’s gospels contain any similar “exception clauses”? What do you make of this? How would this datum influence how you analyze the situation?

God bless you in your reflections.

PS. The “cannot not” in my posting above was a typo, and this should just read “cannot.”
 
Sorry but i did directly copy that verse from a Catholic Bible which is pretty new and modern. Plus i have read similar text which says the same thing in several different bibles.

Thanks
Michael Ivan Mendieta
Please try to understand that even though that particular interpretation appears in a Catholic Bible, it can still be instrumental in misleading some as to the understanding of exactly what it means.

That is why we have bible scholars who are learned in the ancient languages and cultures, and a Church with a teaching authority that can not err with regard to faith and morals.
 
Yes I did notice that you where Catholic from your profile:)
By all means ask all your questions that your heart desires…but several people have already pointed out to you some very valid points regarding your original question…nope I do not just accpet all teachings of the Church blindly…but when I ask a question and people reply that are more knowledgable than I, I understand the teaching and do not keep questioning things or insisting my interpertation of something is correct 😉
Karin,

No, No… Im not insisting that i am correct. I am just firmly covering my bases that’s all.

Thanks
Michael Ivan Mendieta
 
While mortal sin does separate us from God, confession restores us and reunites us not separating us eternally. There is a consequence to the act of adultery, one must seek forgiveness, and show through their actions they are going to change. A spouse then can imitate Christ in showing mercy. Jesus shows us how to be merciful when someone betrays us, he does not shut them out.

Your questions are good, as they force us to better understand the gift God gives us in his teachings. Thanks for the challenge.

God Bless
Thanks for the response. I enjoy engaging in conversation with a wise man such as yourself on this topic.

I agree that the person committing the sin should seek forgiveness from the spouse, but what in the situation the cheater continues to commit adultery, see’s other people but has not officially divorced? What is the wife or husbabd to do there? Are they called to remain faithful in marriage?

Thanks
Michael Ivan Mendieta
 
Michael,

Just some additional thoughts here.

There certainly are consequences to adultery which extend beyond the violation of a fairly clear divine commandment as well as the damage done to both parties in a marriage, the family, and the broader community of the Church and society.

The Church will recognize that the innocent party who does not condone or tolerate the adultery may permanently separate (since continuing conjugal life may become too hard and in fact, the adulterous party might have abandoned it), using civil divorce to protect him/herself and any children. Still it always recommends forgiveness and reconciliation.

These were God’s own responses to a faithless Israel (see e.g. Hosea and the prophets in general). Perhaps a most significant additional consequence then arises in an obligation to be perfect (Matthew) and forgiving (Luke) like God.

Clearly the Church teaches that adultery and a subsequent civil divorce cannot create the right to enter a subsequent new marriage. That was the point of Jesus’ teaching in those Matthean passage. A valid and binding marriage does not become invalid or non binding by virtue of either civil divorce or adultery.

Again, do not rely on paraphrase to draw conclusions from scripture. It does not matter that you have read some similar renderings of “porneia.” If something is incorrect and false, it does not become correct and true by repetition. That something is new and modern is no evidence of it being true.

God bless you in your reflections.

PS. The “cannot not” in my posting above was a typo, and this should just read “cannot.”
Cameron,

Thank you for the time and (name removed by moderator)ut you placed in this response, i very much appreciate it. I have also much enjoy reading.

Let me see if i get this correctly…

I may use “civil divorce” which is like divorce via government, which enables the victim to leave the adulterer but does not give her right to engage into a new marriage?

Another thing which i now find frustrating is now there is some truth to what the anti-christians say, muslims say and even Atheist say when they say the bible has been changed and is inaccurate. The word UNFAITHFUL in the passage of matthew in my bible makes it seem it is alright to divorce if the partner is unfaithful. Now this is not just some small miss print. This one word which can change someone’s life dramatically. And to have “Catholic Bible” written accross it dissapoints me further because the Church should stand strong next to all its products.

As mentioned previouslly when we commit mortal sin to God we are seperate from him, then we should seek forgiveness go to confession and he will forgive. But if we don’t seek forgiveness and then choose sin, God will eternally seperate from us and send us to hell. If we are called to be like God and the one we love chooses to sin against us why are we also able to seperate from them.

And lastly do you mind explaing this “porneia” to myself.

Thanks
Michael Ivan Mendieta
 
Michael,

Please don’t fall into the “reading the Bible literally” trap that the Protestants are stuck in. There is so much more to God’s teachings than one or two verses in the Bible especially when you consider how many translations there are out there.
 
Cameron,
As mentioned previouslly when we commit mortal sin to God we are seperate from him, then we should seek forgiveness go to confession and he will forgive. But if we don’t seek forgiveness and then choose sin, God will eternally seperate from us and send us to hell. If we are called to be like God and the one we love chooses to sin against us why are we also able to seperate from them.
Thanks
Michael Ivan Mendieta
God does not separate Himself from us. We separate ourselves from God. A huge difference.
David
 
Thanks for the response. I enjoy engaging in conversation with a wise man such as yourself on this topic.

I agree that the person committing the sin should seek forgiveness from the spouse, but what in the situation the cheater continues to commit adultery, see’s other people but has not officially divorced? What is the wife or husbabd to do there? Are they called to remain faithful in marriage?

Thanks
Michael Ivan Mendieta
If an individual is unrepented, and unwilling to seek help, then a spouse should seek counsel from a good preist regarding options. Those options being, exploring whether the marriage was sacramently valid (annulment), or a civil divorce. In the case when a sacramental marriage, exist in a civil divorce, a faithful Catholic will remain chaste / celibate, because they cannot remarry.

This I believe is a difficult teaching for many. However, God has given the Church many saints to help those who are given the cross of a difficult marriage situation. The lives/examples of those saints can help people in difficult situations. Also, remember God gives the necessary grace to live a faithful life in the difficult situations that are given to any person. The faithful spouse may offer their suffering for their unfaithful spouse (very Christ like - Father forgive them they know not what they do).

I by no way think this is an easy cross, but I believe in Jesus, that he will be with us always, and he has established his Church for all in need to receive his supernatural life through the sacraments, prayer, fasting, communion of saints, etc…

Obviously a there is supernatural need to the situation you present. So one would need to dispose themselves in order to receive the help Jesus wants to give them. What Glory a faithful person in distress gives God, and what a witness.

God Bless
 
Don’t get me wrong, i think the right thing to do would always remain together even if your partner is unfaithful. I think God would be pleased if this were done. But i still think Jesus was still some what merciful when he was laying the law for divorce.

In my Good New Bible Catholic edition it is said in Matthew 5:31…

It was also said, “Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a written permit of divorce” But now i tell you: if a man divorces his wife, for any cause OTHER THEN HER UNFAITHFULNESS, then he is guilty of her commit adultery if she marries again.

To me i read this… The man is in trouble for divorcing his wife unless she was unfaithful.

Your thoughts please.

Thanks
Michael Ivan Mendieta
Excuse me, but one should NEVER trust a paraphrase (e.g., the Good News Bible or the Living Bible) or its notes to support ANYTHING, even if it’s a so–called “Catholic edition”. Sorry.

Check the Catechism, since this is nicely covered there.
 
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