Divorced Catholics keeping company a grave sin

[materdequint]

In 1962, Ligourian Press published a pamphlet by Fr. Donald Miller, c.s.s.r., entitled “Program for Divorced Catholics.”

It says, “God’s law strictly forbids validly married but divorced Catholics to keep company as if they were free to marry again. When one is not free to marry, steady company-keeping becomes a serious and unneccesary occasion of sin, and therefore a grave sin in itself.”

Since marriage enjoys the favor of the law (all marriages are presumed valid even if one spouse has accused it of nullity) would it follow if one has petitioned for a decree of nullity but has not received a decree - that that person commits grave sin by dating?

 

[Tietjen]

…would it follow if one has petitioned for a decree of nullity but has not received a decree - that that person commits grave sin by dating?

If a declaration of nullity has not been granted then it must be understood that the marriage is valid, and therefore if a spouse within that valid marriage is dating another outside of the marriage, he/she is committing a grave sin.

 

[Seatuck]

In 1962, Ligourian Press published a pamphlet by Fr. Donald Miller, c.s.s.r., entitled “Program for Divorced Catholics.”

It says, “God’s law strictly forbids validly married but divorced Catholics to keep company as if they were free to marry again. When one is not free to marry, steady company-keeping becomes a serious and unneccesary occasion of sin, and therefore a grave sin in itself.”

Since marriage enjoys the favor of the law (all marriages are presumed valid even if one spouse has accused it of nullity) would it follow if one has petitioned for a decree of nullity but has not received a decree - that that person commits grave sin by dating?

Yes, a divorced person needs to wait for the decree to be in hand before dating anyone.

 

[KingAlfred]

In 1962, Ligourian Press published a pamphlet by Fr. Donald Miller, c.s.s.r., entitled “Program for Divorced Catholics.”

It says, “God’s law strictly forbids validly married but divorced Catholics to keep company as if they were free to marry again. When one is not free to marry, steady company-keeping becomes a serious and unneccesary occasion of sin, and therefore a grave sin in itself.”

Since marriage enjoys the favor of the law (all marriages are presumed valid even if one spouse has accused it of nullity) would it follow if one has petitioned for a decree of nullity but has not received a decree - that that person commits grave sin by dating?

In theory, yes. In practice, it’s called ‘life’.

 

[materdequint]

My take is that it is a sin for a person who has petitioned for a decreee of nullity - but doesn’t have it in hand - is committing grave sin by keeping steady compnay with someone with the opposite sex. And I think sin relates to real life situations not just theory.

 

[IrishAm]

I suppose the gravity of the sin is determined by God, but the answer is, of course, “yes.”

 

[MercyandTrust]

What if the relationship is a platonic friendship? Someone to spend time with without the desire to remarry? Its just nicer to go to a movie with a friend than it is to go alone. Could that really be “sinful”? MercyandTrust

 

[materdequint]

I do not think it would be prudent to go with a friend of the opposite sex, if one is married. And married is married, it is like being pregnant. You can’t be a little bit married.

 

[Ruthie]

Ya gotta watch out for those platonic friendships. That’s how my DH and I started out!

Seriously, the problem with a platonic friendship when one or both is still married to someone else in the Church’s eyes is not your intent, but scandal.

All our mutual friends were sure we were romantically involved long before we actually were. If we, and they, had been Catholic back then, we would have been causing scandal, because I made a teenage mistake long ago. It has since been declared null.

Hope this helps,

Ruthie

 

[Maggie1951]

In theory, yes. In practice, it’s called ‘life’.

Exactly what does that mean? This ‘life’ is not the eternal life we’re promised if we keep God’s commands.

Please explain.

M

 

[Maggie1951]

What if the relationship is a platonic friendship? Someone to spend time with without the desire to remarry? Its just nicer to go to a movie with a friend than it is to go alone. Could that really be “sinful”? MercyandTrust

Have you ever seen the movie “When Harry Met Sally?”

Trouble with platonic friendships is they usually turn into something more.

M

 

[Maggie1951]

I have a question.

In the case of no fault divorce, when one party (i.e. the husband) wants a divorce from his wife after thirty years) she has to go along with that as there is no legal way for her to avoid it.

If that ex-husband asks for an annulment, will he get that annulment if the ex-wife objects? If he does ask for an annulment, will the ex wife be notified??? He is seeing another woman, but is still actively practicing his faith.

I’m beginning to notice this is the norm rather than the exception in many peoples’ lives. It is beginning to annoy me to no end when I see knowingly divorced people, remarried again, sometimes for the THIRD time, receiving communion. My faith is being sorely tested to the point where I’ve stopped going to Church.

Do you think GOD sees that the leaders of the Church are not leading their flock??? by preaching the enormity of the sins of their congregations? I’m beginning to lose faith in people, but not in God.

Maggie

 

[quasimodo]

I have a question.

In the case of no fault divorce, when one party (i.e. the husband) wants a divorce from his wife after thirty years) she has to go along with that as there is no legal way for her to avoid it.

If that ex-husband asks for an annulment, will he get that annulment if the ex-wife objects? If he does ask for an annulment, will the ex wife be notified??? He is seeing another woman, but is still actively practicing his faith.

I’m beginning to notice this is the norm rather than the exception in many peoples’ lives. It is beginning to annoy me to no end when I see knowingly divorced people, remarried again, sometimes for the THIRD time, receiving communion. My faith is being sorely tested to the point where I’ve stopped going to Church.

Do you think GOD sees that the leaders of the Church are not leading their flock??? by preaching the enormity of the sins of their congregations? I’m beginning to lose faith in people, but not in God.

Maggie

In cases where one partner seeks a decree of nullity, the other will be notified and given a chance to respond. That party will be asked to give testimony and present evidence. If they do not want to cooperate, the process can still move forward. One vengeful or uncooperative spouse is not permitted to deny the other their day in court.

At times, the evidence and testimony the respondent presents can have a determining effect: for example the grounds used by the tribunal for granting the decree could be based entirely on the testimony and evidence from the respondent. In other words the decree can be based on factors unknown to the petitioner.

On the other hand, the respondent can present testimony and evidence that contradicts the petitioner’s testimony and evidence. In this case the decree may not be granted at all. Other times it may be based on the both.

Concerning those who practice serial monogamy with intervening decrees of nullity or even one marriage: if there is a problem in a person & he or she seems unable to participate in a permanent stable marriage, the church can and does place restrictions on that person which will prevent them from remarrying in the church until that issue is resolved.

Concerning leaving the church because of the people who receive communion despite being divorced: I have studied the tribunal process and am very comfortable that the church does her best to be faithful to the gospel and to be pastoral to the needs of her people - in that order. I have a couple of friends whose wives left them (seemingly) for a more successful man. In each case, two families were torn apart. I see them all participate in the sacramental life of the church and it seems wrong. However, having studied it in detail, I have a lot of respect for the “annulment” process and I set my feeling s aside - reminding myself that I am the only hypocritical sinner I should worry about in Church.

 

[puzzleannie]

In
Since marriage enjoys the favor of the law (all marriages are presumed valid even if one spouse has accused it of nullity) would it follow if one has petitioned for a decree of nullity but has not received a decree - that that person commits grave sin by dating?

yes if by dating you mean social outings with a member of the opposite sex for the purpose of pursuing romantic involvement. It is sinful for a married person to date. period. would you consider it okay for your wife or husband to date in the commonly accepted meaning of that term? also the article quoted says “keeping company” which is a phrase that at least used to mean exclusive dating with a view to possible courtship and marriage in the future. The article does not say “dating” in the sense of casual social gatherings.

 

[puzzleannie]

What if the relationship is a platonic friendship? Someone to spend time with without the desire to remarry? Its just nicer to go to a movie with a friend than it is to go alone. Could that really be “sinful”? MercyandTrust

that was not the question
the question was “dating” or “keeping company” in the commanly accepted meaning of an exclusive social relationship with a view to courtship, romantic love and marriage.

 

[Newbie2]

Exactly what does that mean? This ‘life’ is not the eternal life we’re promised if we keep God’s commands.

Please explain.

M

Methinks that it’s similar to the Church’s teaching on BC; the teaching is ignored by a vast majority of Catholics. That’s not to say such should be acceptable, but whattaya gonna do? Pray for them and help teach them or condem them?

 

[jw9495]

I have a question.

In the case of no fault divorce, when one party (i.e. the husband) wants a divorce from his wife after thirty years) she has to go along with that as there is no legal way for her to avoid it.

If that ex-husband asks for an annulment, will he get that annulment if the ex-wife objects? If he does ask for an annulment, will the ex wife be notified??? He is seeing another woman, but is still actively practicing his faith.

I’m beginning to notice this is the norm rather than the exception in many peoples’ lives. It is beginning to annoy me to no end when I see knowingly divorced people, remarried again, sometimes for the THIRD time, receiving communion. My faith is being sorely tested to the point where I’ve stopped going to Church.

Do you think GOD sees that the leaders of the Church are not leading their flock??? by preaching the enormity of the sins of their congregations? I’m beginning to lose faith in people, but not in God.

Maggie

Maggie,

I have never had to go through an issue like this, as I am sure this would be hard to deal with. My heart goes out to you. I am worried about you not going to church anymore because of this issue. There is no excuse for not going to mass. ( Not going is a sin.) My suggestion is that you find another church to go to, or another mass time. You should be worried about your soul and let your ex worry about his. As far as the priests …pray for them. One other thing to remember, we all sin.

I will pray for you, hang in there!

 

[advocate1]

OK, I am trying hard to understand this. If someone is in the process of seeking an annulment, and “keeps company”, they are committing grave sin??? What exactly is “keeping company”??? I am a married woman. I have male friends who I am no more attracted to than I am my Aunt Gertrude!!! And believe me, I am not smoochin’ Aunt Gertie any time soon. Yet by definition of some who have posted to this forum, If I found myself in this catagory, I would have to discontinue seeing friends whom I have know for years.

Sex outside of marriage is sinful. So I am assuming that these alleged “company keepers” are not having sexual relations. No one would question the right or wrong issue there, right?

That leads us to the question of "Who are we worried about observing this “company keeping” relationship…God or other people from the church community. God knows all. God sees all. He knew you before you were born. So how then is it a sin if no romantic relationship is going on while “keeping company”???

My guess (and it is only a guess) is that God knows what is in your heart, and so do you if you are in this kind of relationship. You and God both know if it is or is not sinful. He did not, however, put me in a place to pass judgement, look down my nose, or potentially gosip about the relationships of others. So, I think if I ever observe such “company keeping”, I will give people the benefit of the doubt and assume friendship over courtship. Anything else is between them and God.

May God’s love be with you all.

 

[DVixen]

Nicely done, “advocate1” . . . The issue of scandal, however, is a serious consideration. If the man or woman “keeping company” is perceived as being a solid, practicing Catholic, and is known to be divorced but not yet annulled, then is seen in public with a member of the opposite sex who is known to not be their spouse, is there is sin in setting a poor example? And if the situation does give rise to presenting a temptation to one or the other of the ‘couple,’ isn’t avoidance of “keeping company” the best way to go?

 

[Suslar]

I’m with you DVixen - scandal IS a serious consideration.

Sadly, my husband left me and my young daughter after 14 years of marriage. We were divorced last fall and he has been dating other women for at least the past 10 years. I have applied for an annulment, but was told it would not be granted before September - of 2009.

As an Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion and a leader of several ministries and groups within our parish, I know people look to me to set an example. If I were to show up at Mass with another man next to me, it might cause others to feel as Maggie1951 does – that someone who has offered guidance (albeit imperfectly) picks and chooses what rules of the Church apply in certain circumstances?

No, Mother Church teaches us how to behave. There are no exceptions. Those who remarry outside of the Church after divorce without the benefit of annulment and Sacramental marriage in the Church are not to partake of the Sacrament of Holy Communion. Yes, I know people do. Yes, I know priests who have counseled others to "follow your conscience” and/or who have instructed some that receiving Jesus in such a circumstance was ok given their particular circumstance. We need to pray for these priests who were improperly trained and are leading others astray! And, we need to continue to set a good example. We need to educate others by how we live our lives.

I don’t necessarily LIKE being alone . . . and I have a dear priest friend who constantly urges me to get out and date and has even tried to arrange dates for me. He thinks I am wasting the “best years of my life” and losing time while I’m still in my childbearing years. But, I know I have to wait. I have to be patient and wait for our Good Lord to send me the love of my life. I know that when I am ready, He will do just that!

In the mean time, I am taking this year off to heal from the divorce and adjust to being a single mom. Please pray for me, for my daughter and for my ex.