Divorced friends not happy with church

[rochejaune]

My friend was born Catholic…Catholic schools and all. She stopped attending church before she got married. Her first husband was mentally abusive, so she divorced him and is now married to a great guy. Neither marriage was in the church. I have been talking to her about coming back to the church but she doesn’t really feel very welcome. Since she is divorced she can’t partake in communion, and she wouldn’t go to church if she couldn’t take communion. That’s like neon lights pointing at her saying she did something wrong.

We have a friend who attended Mass regularly with his family. His wife had an affair and left him and now they’re divorced. He doesn’t go to Mass anymore because of the stigma. If you say he should just get an annulment…well, he was married to this lady for like 20 years and they have 4 children. You can’t annul something like that. What does it say to the children?

I just think that Catholics don’t treat divorced people very well. We should be treating them with more respect and not make them jump through so many hoops to be able to stay in the church on not be looked down on. Or numbers are decreasing and this is problably a very big reason.

Just venting…

 

[diggerdomer]

My friend was born Catholic…Catholic schools and all. She stopped attending church before she got married. Her first husband was mentally abusive, so she divorced him and is now married to a great guy. Neither marriage was in the church. I have been talking to her about coming back to the church but she doesn’t really feel very welcome. Since she is divorced she can’t partake in communion, and she wouldn’t go to church if she couldn’t take communion. That’s like neon lights pointing at her saying she did something wrong.

We have a friend who attended Mass regularly with his family. His wife had an affair and left him and now they’re divorced. He doesn’t go to Mass anymore because of the stigma. If you say he should just get an annulment…well, he was married to this lady for like 20 years and they have 4 children. You can’t annul something like that. What does it say to the children?

I just think that Catholics don’t treat divorced people very well. We should be treating them with more respect and not make them jump through so many hoops to be able to stay in the church on not be looked down on. Or numbers are decreasing and this is problably a very big reason.

Just venting…

You’re right there’s a very common understanding that the Catholic Church does not treat the divorced well. For your friends’ circumstances, they should each talk to and work with the pastoral staff at their parish.

 

[PhilotheaZ]

There are a lot of misperceptions about divorce and annulment that could easily be cleared up by speaking to a priest. Did either of your friends try that, or are they just acting on hearsay?

The first situation might be cleared up relatively easily if your friend would bother to ask. The first marriage could probably be determined invalid due to defect of form (a Catholic marrying outside the Church without proper dispensation), which would leave them free to have the “second” marriage convalidated in the Church. The process could be a lot simpler that your friend might imagine. Of course, no one on this forum can tell you for sure what action is needed; all the details would need to be laid out before a Catholic priest.

With regard to the second situation, if your friend is not remarried there is no reason he could not fully participate in the sacramental life of the Church (he would just need to go to Confession, which is something we should all do regularly anyway). He is probably imagining the stigma, and any stigma against divorcees exists outside the Church as well.

The Church does treat divorced people with respect. She does this by speaking God’s TRUTH to them, not just telling them the lies they want to hear which would put their immortal souls in jeopardy. If God tells us that marriage is permanent, how could the Church possibly in good conscience tell a divorced person that it is OK to marry someone else without first investigating whether the first marriage is valid?

 

[puzzleannie]

My
I just think that Catholics don’t treat divorced people very well. We should be treating them with more respect and not make them jump through so many hoops to be able to stay in the church on not be looked down on. Or numbers are decreasing and this is problably a very big reason.

Just venting…

yes and the number one reason people leave the Church is that they reject Church teaching, and the number one teaching they reject is that on marriage. Simply asking people to hold themselves bound to the same laws and commandments that bind all Catholics is not jumping through hoops it is simple obedience, the foundation of all spiritual growth and health.

No you cannot “annul” a valid marriage, but this canon law remedy is available to those who feel that their marriage was not valid from its inception. The presence or absence of children, fidelity or anyother condition after the wedding is irrelevant.

These disaffected Catholics have the same invitation Christ issues to all–repent, be forgiven, stop sinning, and return to Me. In the case of your first friend since neither marriage was in accord with Church law in the first place she has a very simple paperwork process to go through to enable her to marry validly in the Church, and a simple sacramental remedy–confession, the same offered to all Catholics–to return to communion. Why on earth should people who have slipped up in the marriage department think they have different rules than everyone else.

No hoops, just hope.

have either of your friends made the least effort to discuss their situation with their pastor, who his the one who has the pastoral solutions to their dilemmas, or are they simply relying on the same mis-information about marriage and annulment that kept them away in the first place?

Divorced Catholics are not barred from the sacraments in any case. Only those who remarry invalidly have willingly removed themselves from communion with the Church.

 

[Cluny]

well, he was married to this lady for like 20 years and they have 4 children. You can’t annul something like that.

Yes, you can. It happens all the time. Ted Kennedy comes immediately to mind. Where did you get the idea you coudln’t annul “something like that”?

An annullment simply says there was something defective that made a given marriage void from the beginning.

And it would not affect the legitimacy of the children at either civil law or canon law.

 

[puppypatrol]

My friend was born Catholic…Catholic schools and all. She stopped attending church before she got married. Her first husband was mentally abusive, so she divorced him and is now married to a great guy. Neither marriage was in the church. I have been talking to her about coming back to the church but she doesn’t really feel very welcome. Since she is divorced she can’t partake in communion, and she wouldn’t go to church if she couldn’t take communion. That’s like neon lights pointing at her saying she did something wrong.

We have a friend who attended Mass regularly with his family. His wife had an affair and left him and now they’re divorced. He doesn’t go to Mass anymore because of the stigma. If you say he should just get an annulment…well, he was married to this lady for like 20 years and they have 4 children. You can’t annul something like that. What does it say to the children?

I just think that Catholics don’t treat divorced people very well. We should be treating them with more respect and not make them jump through so many hoops to be able to stay in the church on not be looked down on. Or numbers are decreasing and this is problably a very big reason.

Just venting…

I’m sorry but your friend probably has other issues than just the marriage issue since it appears (an maybe I’m wrong) but she isn’t asking the right questions to the right people. I was born and raised Catholic, went to Mass as a child and teen because I wanted to, not because someone made me. I went to Catholic School until 8th Grade when I had no choice but go to a public high school. From 10th grade on, I drifted away from the Church, not due to any fault of the Church or it’s teachings, but because of human failure, most especially my own, in not trying to understand what the Church really teaches and relying on the “opinion of others”.

Boy, was I wrong!!! I was married twice, neither time in the Church and had 2 children over the course of 25 years. After my second divorce, I moved back to my home state into a house, of all places, across the street from the Catholic Church in my town. I was drawn to Church and to study and realized just how wrong I was. I have had both of my marriages invalidated for lack of canonical form (some call it an annulment but actual annulments are extremely rare), my children know and don’t care, and I have never felt more at home and at peace in my life. Yes, there are some people who may look down on you but they are just people, NOT THE CHURCH. I went and spoke with the priest, went to confession (I could start receiving communion from that point) and then took care of my former marriages. It is really very simple and I felt so much better after.

All your friend needs to do is remember that not everyone in the Church speaks for the Church. When in doubt, ask someone who knows, not just anyone who happens to be available. Also, admit ALL the issues you have with what you perceive to be Church Teachings. You may discover that you have been misinformed and your issues aren’t really issues at all, just simple misunderstandings.

Also, don’t feel bad, many, MANY people confuse fallible humans and the infallible Church and use them interchangebly. It is a common mistake. Unfortunately, humans gossip and make things difficult for others but they are just that, humans. They don’t speak for the Church.

 

[Maryelise]

And if you’ve been married and divorced three times as I have? My defense is untreated bipolar disease. I can still go to Mass, but as for the sacraments . . . I certainly don’t want to marry again.

 

[JimG]

Since she is divorced she can’t partake in communion, and she wouldn’t go to church if she couldn’t take communion. That’s like neon lights pointing at her saying she did something wrong.

A little off-topic but this is a common problem today liturgically–the idea that if you don’t receive communion at Mass you must have done something wrong. Even in the allegedly halcyon days of the 1950’s, it was never expected that everyone attending Mass would come forward for communion.

 

[puppypatrol]

Another thing to remember, it isn’t the divorce that is the sin. It is living in a state of adultery by getting married again while still possibly sacramentally still being married to the first person. All one has to do is remove that obstacle and convalidate (make sacramentally right) the second marriage and everyone can live happily ever after.

 

[bilop]

And if you’ve been married and divorced three times as I have? My defense is untreated bipolar disease. I can still go to Mass, but as for the sacraments . . . I certainly don’t want to marry again.

If you are not currently involved in a relationship outside of marriage, all you need to do is go to confession, and you can resume receiving communion.

Divorce is not a bar to the sacraments. Divorce and attempted remarriage, or living as man and wife w/o benefit of marriage are the bars, just like any other mortal sin.

God Bless

 

[1ke]

My friend was born Catholic…Catholic schools and all. She stopped attending church before she got married. Her first husband was mentally abusive, so she divorced him and is now married to a great guy. Neither marriage was in the church. I have been talking to her about coming back to the church but she doesn’t really feel very welcome. Since she is divorced she can’t partake in communion, and she wouldn’t go to church if she couldn’t take communion. That’s like neon lights pointing at her saying she did something wrong.

This is an excuse. She can easily correct her marriage situation through convalidation (assuming her current spouse does not have prior marriages to deal with).

This is simply pride on her part.

We have a friend who attended Mass regularly with his family. His wife had an affair and left him and now they’re divorced. He doesn’t go to Mass anymore because of the stigma.

There is no stigma. If he is divorced and not remarried, he is able to receive the sacraments.

If you say he should just get an annulment…

If he believes he has valid grounds then he can pursue a decree of nullity.

well, he was married to this lady for like 20 years and they have 4 children. You can’t annul something like that. What does it say to the children?

Length of time in the marriage and number of children has no bearing on nullity. And it doesn’t “say” anything to the children.

I just think that Catholics don’t treat divorced people very well.

Perhaps individual Catholics do not treat divorced persons well. Divorced persons are no different than any other persons under Church law and teaching.

We should be treating them with more respect and not make them jump through so many hoops to be able to stay in the church on not be looked down on.

There are no hoops a divorced person must “jump through.” Their canonical status is the same as every other Catholic, nor are they “looked down upon.” That is purely your opinion, not a fact or Church teaching.

A person in an invalid marriage is another matter entirely regarding canonical status, access to the Sacraments, etc. But they made the choice to place themselves in that position, so it’s their own fault. The Church, in her compassion for them, gives them avenues to correct their situation.

Or numbers are decreasing and this is problably a very big reason.

People do many things of their own free will that put them outside the Church or bar them from the Sacraments-- and then try to blame the Church. Seems you have bought into their pity party.

 

[puppypatrol]

This is an excuse. She can easily correct her marriage situation through convalidation (assuming her current spouse does not have prior marriages to deal with)…
…People do many things of their own free will that put them outside the Church or bar them from the Sacraments-- and then try to blame the Church. Seems you have bought into their pity party.

I so totally agree with you and am glad to finally find someone who understands the difference between individual Catholics and the Church. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!!! :bowdown2:

 

[EasterJoy]

And if you’ve been married and divorced three times as I have? My defense is untreated bipolar disease. I can still go to Mass, but as for the sacraments . . . I certainly don’t want to marry again.

Since untreated bipolar disease would most certainly interfere with your ability to give fully informed consent, I absolutely see no reason you could not rightly be given decrees of nullity for any and all marriages you contracted in that state. Absolutely you could get a decree of nullity and receive the sacraments. You are right that the tribunal might require the your disease be under control before you are allowed to marry again, but if you don’t want to re-marry, that isn’t an issue.

 

[PhilotheaZ]

Since untreated bipolar disease would most certainly interfere with your ability to give fully informed consent, I absolutely see no reason you could not rightly be given decrees of nullity for any and all marriages you contracted in that state. Absolutely you could get a decree of nullity and receive the sacraments. You are right that the tribunal might require the your disease be under control before you are allowed to marry again, but if you don’t want to re-marry, that isn’t an issue.

While what you write may be true, if she is not currently married or in a sexual relationship there is no reason she cannot just make a good confession and fully participate in the sacramental life of the Church again. The decrees of nullity would need to be pursued if she decided to date/marry again.

 

[Ockham]

A little off-topic but this is a common problem today liturgically–the idea that if you don’t receive communion at Mass you must have done something wrong. Even in the allegedly halcyon days of the 1950’s, it was never expected that everyone attending Mass would come forward for communion.

Excellent point. I’m amazed at how few people remain in their pew for Communion. Of course I don’t know for a fact, but I’m willing to bet many people lining up are not in a state of grace.

Jesus Christ outlawed divorce, not the Church.

Not everyone has Teddy Kennedy’s money nor liberal bishops.

 

[EasterJoy]

As noted, your friends are sadly misinformed.

Civil divorce is permitted by the Church, when the reasons are serious. This is even true when the marriage is valid, but the relationship was ruined after marriage by the choice of sin by one or both of the spouses. A civil divorce, from the Church’s standpoint, may achieve separation in the interest of peace in the home, just division of property, personal safety of the spouses or children, and so on. People who obtain a civil divorce for just and serious reasons are allowed to receive Holy Communion. From the Church’s standpoint, it is like a legal separation, though, not a divorce. Even if the divorce was not for serious reasons, the spouse who did not want the marriage to end is not responsible for his or her spouse’s choice to sin.

The Church has to investigate the validity of the marriage and find the marriage invalid before the spouses are free to marry or to conduct themselves as if they were free to marry. Such an investigation can’t be requested until a civil divorce is obtained, though, in order to be sure the investigation process won’t damage a relationship that could be repaired. If the divorced spouses ask for a decree of nullity but do not receive one, however, each of them may still recieve the Sacraments after civil divorce, as long as the person approaching the sacraments has not taken on an additional spouse or engaged in relations allowed between married persons only. A person is not barred from the sacraments because his or her spouse left them and re-married someone else, any more than he or she would be barred because his or her spouse was more obviously an adulterer.

A decree of nullity investigates the condition of the marriage at its beginning. A marriage that wasn’t a marriage on the first day doesn’t become a marriage after 20 years, although it may take that long for the deficiency that existed from the first day to make itself known. If a bridge wasn’t built to specs on the first day, it was never a safe bridge, and the fact that it stands longer than anyone could have predicted doesn’t mean it was built on sound foundations. This is why there is no statute of limitations on decrees of nullity. Think of it like this: it is like the National Transportation Safety Board declaring that a crash occurred because of a factory defect in a 20 year old plane. The plane may have flown hundreds of thousands of miles, but the pilot is still not at fault for the crash. If he walks away from it, there is not a reason in the world he shouldn’t be free to fly; neither should the passengers expect him to take the blame for something he could not have prevented.

If a decree of nullity is granted, it does not say that the marriage was not entered into in good faith. It says that the attempt was not successful, not simply because of the choice to sin, but for reasons that existed from the beginning. It does not say that the spouses were bad people, let alone faithless Catholics. It **does not **say that the children were “illegitimate”. Children can be taught these things, and are capable of understanding them.

As for jumping through the hoops…the rest of the world requires very little in the way of “hoops.” What does that say to the children about how important the integrity of their home family is to the rest of the world?

As for decreasing numbers, the Protestants who let their clergy marry and their laity divorce for any reason they like are seeing their numbers decrease, too, and even faster than ours.

Besides, true compassion is based on the demands of truth and justice, not the demands of falling demographics. Go that route, and faith is just one more consumer comodity.

 

[Seatuck]

And if you’ve been married and divorced three times as I have? My defense is untreated bipolar disease. I can still go to Mass, but as for the sacraments . . . I certainly don’t want to marry again.

You should go sit down with a priest. If you aren’t married at present it should be relatively simple to walk you through confession and attempt to file for annulments. Mental illness can be a factor in a defect of marriage . Please keep going to Mass.

 

[Maryelise]

Thank all of you who responded to my post. I feel that a great weight has been lifted from me! I will talk to a priest ASAP. Thank you, thank you.

 

[EasterJoy]

While what you write may be true, if she is not currently married or in a sexual relationship there is no reason she cannot just make a good confession and fully participate in the sacramental life of the Church again. The decrees of nullity would need to be pursued if she decided to date/marry again.

Well, yes, the confession account of having married outside the Church without dispensation, and for the marrying without having obtained a decree of nullity for earlier marriages. But getting a divorce is not always a sin, per se. There can be extenuating circumstances that make it a just and allowable solution to a couple’s problems.

 

[StillWondering]

My friend was born Catholic…Catholic schools and all. She stopped attending church before she got married. Her first husband was mentally abusive, so she divorced him and is now married to a great guy. Neither marriage was in the church. I have been talking to her about coming back to the church but she doesn’t really feel very welcome. Since she is divorced she can’t partake in communion, and she wouldn’t go to church if she couldn’t take communion. That’s like neon lights pointing at her saying she did something wrong.

I just wanted to mention that if she is worried about what others think of her over what God judges then that would be a totally different problem. Say a pious person who alter serves, who is in the choir and teaches young child in a children’s liturgy goes to Mass three times a day, is this person going to receive all three times. Nope cause they can not. That is not a neon sign to guilt trip her. That is a pious example but there are many people that go to Mass and cannot and do not receive because they respect the Body and Blood of Christ. Wanting to receive is a wonderful reason to fix things or work on fixing things, but it is not a reason to not show up. Does your friend believe in the Real Presence? I know, off topic it seems, but it is the reason why communion is so important.