DNA of Christ

[rossum]

The are currently doing scientific studies on the Shroud of Turin, however, may I ask why it has to be a direct relic and not the scientific results on the Eucharistic miracles?

Because no scientist is going to accept the result of a miracle, which by definition is outside science.

Specifically, that miracle in Buenos Aires, the host was found in a strange place so it could have been treated in all manner of ways. There is no scientific evidence that it was actually a consecrated, as opposed to unconsecrated, host. How would a forensic scientist tell the difference?

DNA from a genuine umbilical cord, or foreskin is far more likely to gain scientific acceptance.

rossum

 

[josh987654321]

Because no scientist is going to accept the result of a miracle, which by definition is outside science.

May I ask what you mean by ‘outside of science’? as science is actually revealing some of these miracles.

Specifically, that miracle in Buenos Aires, the host was found in a strange place so it could have been treated in all manner of ways. There is no scientific evidence that it was actually a consecrated, as opposed to unconsecrated, host. How would a forensic scientist tell the difference?

DNA from a genuine umbilical cord, or foreskin is far more likely to gain scientific acceptance.

rossum

Okay, they are currently studying the Shroud of Turin, so the results there will be very interesting, espeically when they study the blood.

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[Della]

Rossum, please see: my post #9 concerning what is believed to be Jesus’ burial face cloth. As for the Shroud of Turin, no more viable samples can be gotten from it because it has been washed since the last samples were taken. I don’t know whose decision it was to wash it, but it was a major blunder and a loss to us all, IMHO.

 

[GEddie]

Find a genuine relic of Jesus, with blood or other tissue: umbilicus, foreskin, Turin Shroud or whatever and do a DNA sequencing. If you can find more than one genuine relic, then DNA sequencing will allow the detection of some fake relics.

$0.02

rossum

No can do.

We do not, for ascensional reasons, have His solid body to take DNA from as a baseline. Therefore there is no way to determine which, if any, of the DNA-containing relics are true.

MX$2.00

ICXC NIKA

 

[rossum]

No can do.

We do not, for ascensional reasons, have His solid body to take DNA from as a baseline. Therefore there is no way to determine which, if any, of the DNA-containing relics are true.

MX$2.00

His foreskin was removed shortly after his birth, there are various claims to have the true relic. Similarly with the umbilicus and placenta, both of which will have had His DNA. A true Crown of Thorns might supply blood for DNA analysis, as might a true shroud.

All of that potential DNA would have been left behind after His ascension.

rossum

 

[Faith1960]

h

It’s my understanding that no one can disprove God. Am I wrong?

Anyone?

 

[GEddie]

His foreskin was removed shortly after his birth, there are various claims to have the true relic. Similarly with the umbilicus and placenta, both of which will have had His DNA. A true Crown of Thorns might supply blood for DNA analysis, as might a true shroud.

All of that potential DNA would have been left behind after His ascension.

rossum

None of these items have an unbroken provenance, so the problem remains.

Without a solid body to compare to, all we can do is compare relics to relics. Such would never be acceptable in the law.

If for example the Turin Shroud and the holy foreskin had different DNA, we’d know both could not be true, but without HIS body, which (if either) is true?

We’d remain stuck.

ICXC NIKA.

 

[rossum]

If for example the Turin Shroud and the holy foreskin had different DNA, we’d know both could not be true, but without HIS body, which (if either) is true?

But if they had the same DNA, then we would be more convinced. Not certain, but the probability of two different fakes having the same DNA is very low.

The various claimed relics could be tested and matched searched for.

rossum

 

[hasantas]

If Jesus’ father was God (via the Spirit, etc), …concerned with such matters.

Happy to be proven wrong.

Jesus was humanbeing just like Adam. Adam was created without any father and mother so did genetics materials of Adam come from God?

I answer that: No!

Because God create DNA and all matters. The creating is going on and has not stopped or finished. Humanbeing cannot make and compose any alive organ or cell by composing and compounding elements. All these are being done by power and wisdom of God. We can see these miracles everytime and we do not need to go past about 2000 years ago. If some assert that he can make an alive cell without a present cell then he can say that “this is not work of God”.

So God can create male genetics of Jesus as a miracle and the miracles cannot be explained with physics laws.

 

[Faith1960]

h

Anyone?

?

 

[Faith1960]

Jesus was humanbeing just like Adam. Adam was created without any father and mother so did genetics materials of Adam come from God?

I answer that: No!

Because God create DNA and all matters. The creating is going on and has not stopped or finished. Humanbeing cannot make and compose any alive organ or cell by composing and compounding elements. All these are being done by power and wisdom of God. We can see these miracles everytime and we do not need to go past about 2000 years ago. If some assert that he can make an alive cell without a present cell then he can say that “this is not work of God”.

So God can create male genetics of Jesus as a miracle and the miracles cannot be explained with physics laws.

Not everyone believes that Adam was just created without a process of evolution.

Having said that, lets not turn this into a thread about evolution and have it shut down.

 

[marymary1975]

Rossum, please see: my post #9 concerning what is believed to be Jesus’ burial face cloth. As for the Shroud of Turin, no more viable samples can be gotten from it because it has been washed since the last samples were taken. I don’t know whose decision it was to wash it, but it was a major blunder and a loss to us all, IMHO.

Actually there has been DNA testing on the shroud already. The last one was done in the 90’s and some was done when the blood type was determined. There is an entire paper about the results of the DNA from the shroud by Kelly Kearse (I think you can find the PDF on Google). The big issue was that the DNA was very fragmented but they did find an X and a Y gene (hence male person). What happens is that the technology from today may allow a better reading from the fragmented DNA which was not possible in the 90’s but as you well mentioned, no more viable samples can be obtained and most scientist wish that they were able to study the fragmented DNA with today’s technology.

As to the OP I agree that to me the big issue is where the Y gene came from. Personally I believe it was God’s miracle and that the holy spirit created those parts of Jesus that did not come from Mary’s DNA.