Do all Christians go to Heaven?

[Loginus]

Yeah, that is sad. This is just like that time I was told all about the wonders of the “all pasta” diet. now this.

lol

I say to be safe, bet on every card by joining every religon, that way you cant lose!

 

[Damascus]

I do believe you are correct. We were made to live eternally and then the fall happened and the rest as they is history or future. Which ever way you want to look at it.

I was looking forward to a blasting by my catholic brothers and all I got was an okay from my protestant brother?

What is this world coming to?

Thanks All for Him.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

I was looking forward to a blasting by my catholic brothers and all I got was an okay from my protestant brother?

What is this world coming to?

Thanks All for Him.

LOL
Your welcome from your fellow sister:thumbsup:

 

[Caesar]

Only if a non-Catholic Christian remains ignorant of the Catholic faith can they go to heaven- and then they will probably go to purgatory with the rest of those who are saved, regardless of whether they believe in such a place or not.

 

[cazayoux]

Good stuff! Thanks

 

[Victorious]

Please explain this. The scripture references to belief and faith in Jesus Christ as the way to enternal life are too many for me to reference. Using on the Word of God, how can someone who does not believe or have faith in Jesus Christ, which is the definition of Christian, get to heaven? Also, how does one that has the belief and faith in Jesus Christ not get to heaven?

The Catechism of the Catholic Church at 847 says:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do His will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.

This is in no way inconsistent with the truth that Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, since His sacrifice is the source of all merit.

As for how one who believes and has faith can lose salvation, see 2 Peter 2:20-22:

For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overpowered, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. It has happened to them according to the true proverb, The dog turns back to his own vomit, and the sow is washed only to wallow in the mire.

 

[rtconstant]

My understanding is that the doctrine of Church is “normative” meaning that it is the truth. However, God is bound by nothing and as such can assign salvation as He sees fit.

If this has been said and I over looked it I apologize. If I’m incorrect on my understanding of this let me know that too

 

[tequilamac]

Does the Pope and the Church agree with this position. That, for example, jews are condemned to hell, unless they never heard about the teachings of Jesus?

Not unless they are particularly attached to pasta and refuse to give it up even though their waste bands have grown to morbid conditions.

 

[Mr.Ex_Nihilo]

My understanding is that the doctrine of Church is “normative” meaning that it is the truth. However, God is bound by nothing and as such can assign salvation as He sees fit.

Really?

So can God allow a devout Catholic* who has always trusted him, obeyed his Church in all matters, honored his mother repeatedly, and died with no mortal sin go to hell…

…all the while…

…allowing an nihilistic atheist* who repeatedly tries to convince others to not believe in God, perform abortions, totally disregard all of God’s ordinances, and dies with mortal sin go to heaven?

*please note: I’m not saying all Catholics and atheists act this way-- these extreme comparisions are desinged to illustrate the most radically diametrically opposed examples one could imagine in regards to the claim that God can assign salvation as He sees fit.

 

[Zooey]

Does the Pope and the Church agree with this position. That, for example, jews are condemned to hell, unless they never heard about the teachings of Jesus?

Valke, I am not Catholic, I am Methodist, & I leave it to others to speak to what the Catholic Church teaches here.
For myself, I think back to what my grandmother often said, that “People are judged according to the light that they have”.
Now, for myself, that means that Jews are called to follow the law of Moses to the best of their ability, trusting in the goodness of God. In particular, I would say that, in particular, the victims of Hitler’s Holocaust are a special case, since their experience of what Christians believe & do, must perforce, have been horrifically distirted by what the Nazis did…(Even though I do not consider the Nazis to be “Christian” by any definition of the word!! Knowingly, or not so knowingly, they were serving the purposes of satan.)

God not having elected me His doorkeeper, however, I cannot decide, nor can I know, who is, & who is not, in Heaven. Nor, who will be going there in the future. I do believe that all Christians need to read the 25th chapter of Matthew’s gospel more frequently, & meditate on the subject of whom “the least of these, My brethren” must logically be considered to be.
God bless.

 

[tequilamac]

Really?

So can God allow a devout Catholic* who has always trusted him, obeyed his Church in all matters, honored his mother repeatedly, and died with no mortal sin go to hell…

…all the while…

…allowing an nihilistic atheist* who repeatedly tries to convince others to not believe in God, perform abortions, totally disregard all of God’s ordinances, and dies with mortal sin go to heaven?

*please note: I’m not saying all Catholics and atheists act this way-- these extreme comparisions are desinged to illustrate the most radically diametrically opposed examples one could imagine in regards to the claim that God can assign salvation as He sees fit.

No, don’t be ridiculous. Catholics go to Hell when… they have not repented of mortal sin before death.

 

[Damascus]

No, don’t be ridiculous. Catholics go to Hell when… they have not repented of mortal sin before death.

Are you saying that mortal sin can not be cleansed in Purgatory if the desire to repent was there and did not take place before death? (for qualifyed reasons of course)

Lets not get so leagalistic about it please. That kind of a blanket statement is not fair to make considering the fact that you are well aware of multiple circumstances that would change your formula here.

A new Catholic or someone studiyng the faith may take one look at this post of yours and RUN as fast as possible away from the Church.

Be careful when you talk about eternal damnation. Its a hot topic for some.

 

[Mr.Ex_Nihilo]

No, don’t be ridiculous. Catholics go to Hell when… they have not repented of mortal sin before death.

That’s what basically I beleive too tequilamac. I mean, for sure, only God can judge.

But by what basis does God judge?

Don’t get me wrong. I’m only questioning the phrase, “God is bound by nothing and as such can assign salvation as He sees fit.”

But if God is bound by nothing and can assign salvation as He sees fit, then how does he judge right from wrong when determining the eternal salvation of any human being?

There must be at least some standard of good which proceeds from his very essense by which he judges the world and meets out salvation.

God is the standard by which we are saved.

 

[tequilamac]

That’s what basically I beleive too tequilamac. I mean, for sure, only God can judge.

But by what basis does God judge?

Don’t get me wrong. I’m only questioning the phrase, “God is bound by nothing and as such can assign salvation as He sees fit.”

But if God is bound by nothing and can assign salvation as He sees fit, then how does he judge right from wrong when determining the eternal salvation of any human being?

There must be at least some standard of good which proceeds from his very essense by which he judges the world and meets out salvation.

God is the standard by which we are saved.

It is very simple. You tell the person who wrote "“God is bound by nothing and as such can assign salvation as He sees fit.”, that God is bound by His own Word. And He will assign salvation according to His Word that He has already given us. Very simple. One does not need a degree in theology to answer most bizarre claims about God.

 

[tequilamac]

Are you saying that mortal sin can not be cleansed in Purgatory if the desire to repent was there and did not take place before death? (for qualifyed reasons of course)

Lets not get so leagalistic about it please. That kind of a blanket statement is not fair to make considering the fact that you are well aware of multiple circumstances that would change your formula here.

A new Catholic or someone studiyng the faith may take one look at this post of yours and RUN as fast as possible away from the Church.

Be careful when you talk about eternal damnation. Its a hot topic for some.

True mortal sin is not cleansed in purgatory, no, not without repentance before death. Look it up. that is why we fear dying in a state of mortal sin. Purgatory as well as Heaven are for those who still have a living relationship with God. Mortal sin is one in which the relationship to God is dead and moot.

 

[Mr.Ex_Nihilo]

It is very simple. You tell the person who wrote "“God is bound by nothing and as such can assign salvation as He sees fit.”, that God is bound by His own Word. And He will assign salvation according to His Word that He has already given us. Very simple. One does not need a degree in theology to answer most bizarre claims about God.

But that is what I’m getting at tequilamac.

The question was designed to get the other poster to think more about what they’re claiming when they say, “God is bound by nothing and as such can assign salvation as He sees fit.”

You know that God is bound by His own Word. And you know He will assign salvation according to His Word that He has already given us.

And I know that God is bound by His own Word. I know He will assign salvation according to His Word that He has already given us.

The other poster who said “God is bound by nothing and as such can assign salvation as He sees fit” might actually beleive as we do, but wasn’t actually saying this very clearly.

Instead of rudely saying, “No. You’re wrong.”, or “No, don’t be ridiculous.”, or “Nonsense, you deluded and deceived sinful being.”, I asked him a question that politely forces him to think about his own statements so that when he answers it honestly he refines it himself in private to say what we already know to be true.

 

[Damascus]

True mortal sin is not cleansed in purgatory, no, not without repentance before death. Look it up. that is why we fear dying in a state of mortal sin. Purgatory as well as Heaven are for those who still have a living relationship with God. Mortal sin is one in which the relationship to God is dead and moot.

I used the word DESIRE.

Are you going to tell me that a Catholic that commits a mortal sin, does his or her best to get to confession and all the while is remorseful about that sin, has prayed about it to God and is doing their best to rectify it in confession and dies before it can be confessed is DAMNED TO HELL?
Think again.

 

[tequilamac]

I used the word DESIRE.

Are you going to tell me that a Catholic that commits a mortal sin, does his or her best to get to confession and all the while is remorseful about that sin, has prayed about it to God and is doing their best to rectify it in confession and dies before it can be confessed is DAMNED TO HELL?
Think again.

Are you blind? Or merely argumentative? When did I say all that?
What I said is and stand by as it is the teaching of the Church is he who dies in mortal sin without repenting of that sin first, will go to Hell. Notice I felt it was unnecessary to use the word desire. Why would I need to use the word desire? If he repented he repented. I do not remember adding in all your other requirements for which you gave me credit.

 

[Damascus]

Are you blind? Or merely argumentative? When did I say all that?
What I said is and stand by as it is the teaching of the Church is he who dies in mortal sin without repenting of that sin first, will go to Hell. Notice I felt it was unnecessary to use the word desire. Why would I need to use the word desire? If he repented he repented. I do not remember adding in all your other requirements for which you gave me credit.

I guess I am blind. You never did add “other requirements” I DID.

Some Protestants think that we cant repent unless we go to confession.

That is why I sought clarity. You must be a cradle.

 

[tequilamac]

I guess I am blind. You never did add “other requirements” I DID.

Some Protestants think that we cant repent unless we go to confession.

That is why I sought clarity. You must be a cradle.

I believe your question was: Are you saying that mortal sin can not be cleansed in Purgatory if the desire to repent was there and did not take place before death?

And I said: Mortal sin cannot be cleansed in purgatory unless the guy repented before death.

If you had asked a question such as: what does he have to do to prove he repented or something, then I would have added on all this other stuff about confession etc. which is only for the living. Otherwise,if he is dead we cannot prove he had the desire to repent and we trust God knows he repented. However if the desire to repent was there beofre death then he repented. Desire to repent=repentance. But that is not the question you asked, was it?

Reading grammar correctly or incorrectly is not indicative of being or not being a cradle catholic. God bless.