Do All Dogs Go To Heaven? New Books Seem To Think So

[benidict]

I’m not sure what Judaism says regarding animals going to heaven. My guess is it does not specify, for according to Judaism, we should not discuss who may or may not go to heaven too much in this life, but rather focus on worshiping G-d and doing good deeds toward Man in the here and now and leave it to G-d to make a just and merciful decision.

Hello my dear Brother. I believe I came across this in Everymans Talmud. I could be wrong. If you can be a little patient, I will be going home for R+R in a few weeks, and I would love to get a reference for you as to what the Rabbinic Sages said about this. I do understand however that sometimes they spoke in allegory, and I could very well be wrong. G-ds Blessings upon you, and His peace I love the Jewish people. If not for you, we would not know G-d. Because of Abraham, All nations Are blessed. Also I agree with you that the primary focus should be spent in the worship of our Creator, and Serving our neighbor. Well said!

 

[RSD]

I’m not sure what Judaism says regarding animals going to heaven. My guess is it does not specify, for according to Judaism, we should not discuss who may or may not go to heaven too much in this life, but rather focus on worshiping G-d and doing good deeds toward Man in the here and now and leave it to G-d to make a just and merciful decision.

Reserving our judgement about who may or may not go to Heaven seems like a good idea, but since I routinely work with children and animals, and sometimes the animals die, I often have to do my best to answer a child grieving over a lost loved one “Do animals go to Heaven?” Did my dog, cat, horse, guinea pig, the baby bird I tried so hard and unsuccessfully to save, the mole in the garden that I begged my Daddy not to kill, but he did anyway, the deer that my mommy hit in the car just by accident, and suffered so much before it died? I have to try the best I can to answer the heart of these little ones, so close to God in their youth and innocence, but clearly needing guidance in this moment of suffering. The more I see of these moments, the more certain I am that the love of God is shining in these children, in their own love for the lost animal. I want to speak comfort to them, but not at the expense of truth, that would not bring them closer to God. As I have struggled for years to understand what best to say to them, I have become more and more certain that the gift God gave them of loving the animal is a gift that is not taken away by death. Note I did not say the gift of the animal. That gift does seem to be taken away, but the gift of love is eternal. I do not think that we can get a gift of love that does not have some element of eternity in it.

 

[meltzerboy]

Hello my dear Brother. I believe I came across this in Everymans Talmud. I could be wrong. If you can be a little patient, I will be going home for R+R in a few weeks, and I would love to get a reference for you as to what the Rabbinic Sages said about this. I do understand however that sometimes they spoke in allegory, and I could very well be wrong. G-ds Blessings upon you, and His peace I love the Jewish people. If not for you, we would not know G-d. Because of Abraham, All nations Are blessed. Also I agree with you that the primary focus should be spent in the worship of our Creator, and Serving our neighbor. Well said!

Thank you for your kind words. And thanks for checking the reference. I’ll also ask online on the Jewish Forum: there are some Orthodox Jewish members there who are very knowledgeable. I do know that being good to animals is considered a great mitzva (commandment). For example, one must feed one’s pet before oneself and other family members and hunting wild animals for sport is strictly forbidden.

 

[meltzerboy]

Hello my dear Brother. I believe I came across this in Everymans Talmud. I could be wrong. If you can be a little patient, I will be going home for R+R in a few weeks, and I would love to get a reference for you as to what the Rabbinic Sages said about this. I do understand however that sometimes they spoke in allegory, and I could very well be wrong. G-ds Blessings upon you, and His peace I love the Jewish people. If not for you, we would not know G-d. Because of Abraham, All nations Are blessed. Also I agree with you that the primary focus should be spent in the worship of our Creator, and Serving our neighbor. Well said!

Also, although animals may be eaten for food (there is a case for vegetarianism as well in Judaism), part of the koshering process is killing the animal with the sharpest needle to make sure one inflicts the least pain.

 

[benidict]

Also, although animals may be eaten for food (there is a case for vegetarianism as well in Judaism), part of the koshering process is killing the animal with the sharpest needle to make sure one inflicts the least pain.

Yes. The Koshering process is amazing. From what I understand the animal suffers much less pain. And the meat from what I have heard, taste better. It is amazing, how much in the Torah is written in reguard for animals. I dont eat meat with the blood in it, and I also do not hunt for sport. I understand the vegetarian aspect. I have come across this as well in my studies. Do you study the Zohar perchance? Peace

 

[Salvatore123]

All of you “against me” in this discussion, are obviously free to denigrate me as well as my arguments as being too “simplistic” or too “narrow”, as though I am somewhat of a bigot in terms of animals vs. man.

It is THAT danger that drove me to participate in the thread in the beginning - the danger of elevating animals to the level of man. Although JPII specifically talked about the love of animals, he also specifically stated (it is in the Catechism) that man should NEVER treat an animal on the same level as a human.

But the biggest danger I have seen expressed has to deal with children who lose a pet or see the death of an animal and then ask questions about what happens to those animals after they have died.

I realize that for the sake of human kindness, we sometimes tell our “fibs” to either protect our children or to allow them to have fun in life a bit longer (such as prolonging the inevitable discovery that Santa Clause does not exist).

The danger of what I speak is telling children things as though they are fact, simply because we don’t want to hurt their feelings.

I am a firm believer in the Catholic principle of justice and charity. Those two go hand-in-hand. Although I do not like making my children feel down or sad, I also do not tell them things that I do not believe are true, nor do I lie, just to make them feel better. I think that doing so is a disservice to them in the long run, and (to me) is a band-aid approach to a problem with how do we prepare our young ones for life.

Call me heartless - and I am certain many will do - but I will never hesitate to tell my children (and out of our four, I have two still in elementary school) the truth about Hell, the agonizing existence one would endure if one went to Hell, and that they should try to live their lives in a way to best avoid Hell at all costs. Do I tell them that Hell considers of fire and brimstone, headed up by a demon with a pointed tail and a pitchfork? Of course not. But do I tell them that Hell is for eternity, and eternity is a VERY long time to spend one’s immortal existence in pure agony, deprived of everything that is good and soothing, and that will take us away from God and those loved ones we knew who led a life that allowed them to enter Heaven.

Is my explanation scary? To a degree, yes. Especially because of my description of its finality and the utter wasteland that would be Hell. But I WANT them to be scared to end up in Hell and I WANT them to strive to be with God one day.

It is charitable to tell one that one is sinning as opposed to just ignoring the issue or saying “it’s okay - I don’t think God will mind”, if I know deep down in my heart that saying such things would be a lie.

 

[kanrok]

Catholics open to the love of God.

That too.

 

[benidict]

All of you “against me” in this discussion, are obviously free to denigrate me as well as my arguments as being too “simplistic” or too “narrow”, as though I am somewhat of a bigot in terms of animals vs. man.

It is THAT danger that drove me to participate in the thread in the beginning - the danger of elevating animals to the level of man. Although JPII specifically talked about the love of animals, he also specifically stated (it is in the Catechism) that man should NEVER treat an animal on the same level as a human.

But the biggest danger I have seen expressed has to deal with children who lose a pet or see the death of an animal and then ask questions about what happens to those animals after they have died.

I realize that for the sake of human kindness, we sometimes tell our “fibs” to either protect our children or to allow them to have fun in life a bit longer (such as prolonging the inevitable discovery that Santa Clause does not exist).

The danger of what I speak is telling children things as though they are fact, simply because we don’t want to hurt their feelings.

I am a firm believer in the Catholic principle of justice and charity. Those two go hand-in-hand. Although I do not like making my children feel down or sad, I also do not tell them things that I do not believe are true, nor do I lie, just to make them feel better. I think that doing so is a disservice to them in the long run, and (to me) is a band-aid approach to a problem with how do we prepare our young ones for life.

Call me heartless - and I am certain many will do - but I will never hesitate to tell my children (and out of our four, I have two still in elementary school) the truth about Hell, the agonizing existence one would endure if one went to Hell, and that they should try to live their lives in a way to best avoid Hell at all costs. Do I tell them that Hell considers of fire and brimstone, headed up by a demon with a pointed tail and a pitchfork? Of course not. But do I tell them that Hell is for eternity, and eternity is a VERY long time to spend one’s immortal existence in pure agony, deprived of everything that is good and soothing, and that will take us away from God and those loved ones we knew who led a life that allowed them to enter Heaven.

Is my explanation scary? To a degree, yes. Especially because of my description of its finality and the utter wasteland that would be Hell. But I WANT them to be scared to end up in Hell and I WANT them to strive to be with God one day.

It is charitable to tell one that one is sinning as opposed to just ignoring the issue or saying “it’s okay - I don’t think God will mind”, if I know deep down in my heart that saying such things would be a lie.

My brother/sister, I do not believe anyone is trying to denigrate you. I truly believe that there is some evidence that at the ressurection All of creation will be made new. I dont believe you are a bigot, or anything of the sort. Part of Gods will, is that we enjoy our existence, and make good use of the gifts he gives us. Did Adam and Eve just sit in the garden and stare at their Creator? I believe this is a false view of heaven. Adam and Eve worked the earth. They were fruitful and multiplied. There is much evidence that our eternal abode will be full of wonderful things. I just think your Idea of what heaven will be is just too limited. Maybe mine are too broad. But I do agree with you, that Hell must be avoided at all cost, and that it is a Horrible end to come to. But to believe that God in his mercy, would include animals in the ressurection, is not a damnable belief, nor does it elevate animals to the level of Humans. Its just a belief that God will restore all that was lost. Peace and prayers for you. And please. enjoy the good things in life.

 

[benidict]

Come to think of it, I wonder what St. Francis of Assisi would say…

 

[benidict]

Many of the stories that surround the life of St. Francis deal with his love for animals.[23] Perhaps the most famous incident that illustrates the Saint’s humility towards nature is recounted in the “Fioretti” (“Little Flowers”), a collection of legends and folklore that sprang up after the Saint’s death. It is said that, one day, while Francis was traveling with some companions, they happened upon a place in the road where birds filled the trees on either side. Francis told his companions to “wait for me while I go to preach to my sisters the birds”.[23] The birds surrounded him, intrigued by the power of his voice, and not one of them flew away. The variety of birds are a metaphor for the nations of the world.

Another legend from the Fioretti tells that in the city of Gubbio, where Francis lived for some time, was a wolf “terrifying and ferocious, who devoured men as well as animals”. Francis had compassion upon the townsfolk, and went up into the hills to find the wolf. Soon, fear of the animal had caused all his companions to flee, though the saint pressed on. When he found the wolf, he made the sign of the cross and commanded the wolf to come to him and hurt no one. Miraculously the wolf closed his jaws and lay down at the feet of St. Francis. “Brother Wolf, you do much harm in these parts and you have done great evil…”, said Francis. “All these people accuse you and curse you… But brother wolf, I would like to make peace between you and the people”. Then Francis led the wolf into the town, and surrounded by startled citizens made a pact between them and the wolf. Because the wolf had “done evil out of hunger”, the townsfolk were to feed the wolf regularly, and in return, the wolf would no longer prey upon them or their flocks. In this manner Gubbio was freed from the menace of the predator. Francis even made a pact on behalf of the town dogs, that they would not bother the wolf again. Francis, to show the townspeople that they would not be harmed, blessed the wolf.

Francis preached the teaching of the Catholic Church, that the world was created good and beautiful by God but suffers a need for redemption because of the primordial sin of man. He preached to man and beast the universal ability and duty of all creatures to praise God (a common theme in the Psalms) and the duty of men to protect and enjoy nature as both the stewards of God’s creation and as creatures ourselves.[23] Legend has it that St. Francis on his deathbed thanked his donkey for carrying and helping him throughout his life, and his donkey wept
Interesting
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_of_Assisi

 

[Bran_Stark]

It is THAT danger that drove me to participate in the thread in the beginning - the danger of elevating animals to the level of man. Although JPII specifically talked about the love of animals, he also specifically stated (it is in the Catechism) that man should NEVER treat an animal on the same level as a human.

I understand that using phrases like “animals going to Heaven” can be confusing since it gives the impression that they sin and must be saved in the same way that we do. But the simple presence of animals in Heaven in no way puts them on the same “level” as man. Paradise will have God and angels and men - three very different sorts of beings, on three very different levels. Once we recognize this, it’s hardly a stretch to suggest that maybe a fourth type of being will reside there as well. While fully agreeing that we oughtn’t to think of animals as our equals, I submit that that’s totally unrelated to the question of fauna (and flora, of course!) in the New Heaven and the New Earth.

I can’t help but to wonder if, when Lucifer heard of the divine plan to create humans, he did not object on the grounds that it was “elevating animals to the level of angels”…

Santa Clause does not exist).

 

[meltzerboy]

Reserving our judgement about who may or may not go to Heaven seems like a good idea, but since I routinely work with children and animals, and sometimes the animals die, I often have to do my best to answer a child grieving over a lost loved one “Do animals go to Heaven?” Did my dog, cat, horse, guinea pig, the baby bird I tried so hard and unsuccessfully to save, the mole in the garden that I begged my Daddy not to kill, but he did anyway, the deer that my mommy hit in the car just by accident, and suffered so much before it died? I have to try the best I can to answer the heart of these little ones, so close to God in their youth and innocence, but clearly needing guidance in this moment of suffering. The more I see of these moments, the more certain I am that the love of God is shining in these children, in their own love for the lost animal. I want to speak comfort to them, but not at the expense of truth, that would not bring them closer to God. As I have struggled for years to understand what best to say to them, I have become more and more certain that the gift God gave them of loving the animal is a gift that is not taken away by death. Note I did not say the gift of the animal. That gift does seem to be taken away, but the gift of love is eternal. I do not think that we can get a gift of love that does not have some element of eternity in it.

Very well said! I agree.

 

[RSD]

But the biggest danger I have seen expressed has to deal with children who lose a pet or see the death of an animal and then ask questions about what happens to those animals after they have died.

I realize that for the sake of human kindness, we sometimes tell our “fibs” to either protect our children or to allow them to have fun in life a bit longer (such as prolonging the inevitable discovery that Santa Clause does not exist).

The danger of what I speak is telling children things as though they are fact, simply because we don’t want to hurt their feelings.

It is charitable to tell one that one is sinning as opposed to just ignoring the issue or saying “it’s okay - I don’t think God will mind”, if I know deep down in my heart that saying such things would be a lie.

Please, it is important that you understand, at least when I am speaking, I would never NEVER advocate telling a child a lie (nor would I mitigate it by calling it a “fib”) in order to make them feel better. My point is that their very real emotional turmoil made it very important for me to understand what I could say that would be both true and comforting. I think that in the long run truth is the greatest comfort that we can give. I also think that developmentally we sometimes need to be careful how we communicate truth. There is a wonderful story in “The Hiding Place” when a young Corrie Ten Boom asked her father a question that he did not feel she was ready to hear the answer to. He asked her to pick up his very heavy suitcase. She was surprised, because she could not lift it. Her father always carried it. He said in the same way there is some knowledge that is too heavy for a young heart to carry, and he would carry it for her until she was older.

 

[Salvatore123]

RSD,

I never said, nor implied, that YOU did lie or do any such thing. I sincerely apologize if you understood what I wrote as applying to you.

I really appreciate the discourse with you on this thread.

My “concern” was with the way some others who darn near seemed ready to stone me because I didn’t think Arnold from Green Acres was not in Heaven . . .

Pax Tecum +

 

[benidict]

No. Arnold from Green Acres ended up here.

 

[benidict]

ALAS. POOR ARNOLD. l knew him well…

 

[StAnastasia]

Paradise will have God and angels and men - three very different sorts of beings, on three very different levels. Once we recognize this, it’s hardly a stretch to suggest that maybe a fourth type of being will reside there as well.

There is no theological reason to believe that God’s infinite creativity is incapable of gracing all life with eternal life, at whatever capacity is appropriate. 20-50% of human conceptions are washed out early in pregnancy because they are “genetically incompatible with life.” That is, 20-50% of humans enter eternity without ever having lived, or had a brain, or experienced beauty, or made a moral decision. They could not do these because of the incoherence of their genetic makeup, or who they were.

And for hundreds of thousands of years hominids were evolving characteristics that would eventually make them into Homo sapiens. There was no sharp dividing line between pre-humans and humans, since they evolved into “full humanity” as a population. I’m not sure God would deny “heaven” to people who were a dozen generations short of full humanity.

StAnastasia

 

[angel18]

originally posted by StAnastasia

There is no theological reason to believe that God’s infinite creativity is incapable of gracing all life with eternal life, at whatever capacity is appropriate. 20-50% of human conceptions are washed out early in pregnancy because they are “genetically incompatible with life.” That is, 20-50% of humans enter eternity without ever having lived, or had a brain, or experienced beauty, or made a moral decision. They could not do these because of the incoherence of their genetic makeup, or who they were.

And for hundreds of thousands of years hominids were evolving characteristics that would eventually make them into Homo sapiens. There was no sharp dividing line between pre-humans and humans, since they evolved into “full humanity” as a population. I’m not sure God would deny “heaven” to people who were a dozen generations short of full humanity.

very nice your comments, I really agree with what you say. hopefully God will always protect you and all your family. Amenhttp://freeimagestocks.com/content/11/dot.png

 

[benidict]

Just a quick little story. My son turns 16 this year. His whole life, he has not been able to relate one bit to people. He has a problem in his emotional and mental makeup that prevents this. He has no friends, He finds it impossible to make friends. We have tried medications, psychologist, you name it we tried it. His self esteem is shot. However there is one thing that keeps him going. One thing that gives me hope for him. and that is the way he loves his animals. He has 2 cats, and for a long time kept hampsters. I asked him if he still was going to have hampsters and he said no. because they dont live that long, and it breaks his heart every time one dies. The only emotional connection he is capable of is with his furry friends. They seem to understand this too. I remember one time we were feeding wild geese, and they took the food right from his hand, and let him pet them. If it were not for these lovely furry and winged creatures, I firmly believe my son would be in a lot worse shape. Peace

 

[StAnastasia]

very nice your comments, I really agree with what you say. hopefully God will always protect you and all your family. Amenhttp://freeimagestocks.com/content/11/dot.png

Thank you, angel18 – prayers and blessings for you and your family too, in this time of trouble!