Do all protestants believe the prosperity gospel?

[ltwin]

is this widespread among all protestants? some say you get wealth according to the faith you have but if this is true the apostles and early church should be the richest people in human history. they had martyrs, Mary and so many miracles.

Typically, Protestants who believe in the various versions of prosperity gospel that are circulating within religious popular culture at the moment are coming out of particular sectors of the Pentecostal and Charismatic traditions.

Other types of Protestants actually are pretty united in opposition against it. Mainline Protestants are often committed to social democracy and the welfare state, so even though they are often more wealthy than the average person, they are more likely to reject any overt connection between faith and monetary success. Among the most liberal Mainline Protestants, Christian eschatology is partly understood in terms of personal human responsibility for participating in building the Kingdom of God on earth, which could require government redistribution of wealth.

On the more conservative Protestant spectrum, Calvinists are among the most outspoken critics of the prosperity gospel. According to them, the prosperity gospel perverts the gospel by making it man-centered. Prosperity gospel preachers teach that God used faith when He created the world by the utterance of His voice. Likewise, prosperity preachers tell us, we can use faith to create what we want in this life through our own words, known as “positive confession.” For Calvinists, this is the ultimate insult to God. According to critics of prosperity gospel, God does not have or need faith because He is the object of faith, i.e. we have faith in Him because He is capable of meeting all of our needs, and He has met all of our needs in Christ. In short, Calvinists object to the prosperity gospel because they believe it equates man with God.

Furthermore, there are many Pentecostals who object to the prosperity gospel and consider it a heresy. As Abidewithme has pointed out, the Assemblies of God has condemned it in its position paper “The Believer and Positive Confession.”

The prosperity gospel first emerged out of 1950s Pentecostal healing revivals. The emphasis on faith originally was confined to physical and mental healing, which has always been a cardinal doctrine within Pentecostalism. Overtime, however, a confluence of popular culture (positive thinking), extraordinary economic prosperity, and the constant need for evangelists to fund raise in order to maintain extensive television and other types of ministries led to teaching on how faith could be used to procure financial and social success.

Not surprisingly, these evangelists were operating for the most part outside of the established Pentecostal denominations and their ministries were independent. Therefore, there was very little oversight over their activities allowing them to overemphasize material success in their preaching and engage in unethical methods of fundraising and pastoral counseling.

Some seem to get upset and touchy when it is pointed out that Jesus lived a poor life, apostles too and even early Christians were not wealthy if we believe those verses that Paul is commanding Christians to provide for other believers. They respond accusing others of preaching poverty gospel. but poverty even by nuns is voluntary and is a calling and not for everyone. catholics believing in fighting real physical poverty with spiritual poverty. because when you give then you don’t have that thing anymore so you are practicing spiritual poverty.

Well, even prosperity preachers tend to encourage people to do good deeds and give to charity. This is one of the ways that people can “sow seeds.” For example, it was once told to me by an evangelist that if you give away clothes, you will get back better clothes in return. You give away a car, you get a better car in return. God blesses those who give, whether that be to your local church, the t.v. evangelist, or a charity. The more you give, the more you get back.

A favorite verse in prosperity churches is Luke 6:38:

Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

That is how it is all supposed to work in theory. In reality, most prosperity teachers emphasize “sowing seed” to the ministries of the prosperity teachers so that they can spread the gospel and evangelize the world (and maintain their lavish lifestyles). It is implicitly taught that because the prosperity evangelists are doing the best evangelization work (so they claim), if people want the best “return” on their “investment” then they should “sow their seed” into these ministries. It’s like the spiritual version of the stock market.

 

[robwar]

Typically, Protestants who believe in the various versions of prosperity gospel that are circulating within religious popular culture at the moment are coming out of particular sectors of the Pentecostal and Charismatic traditions.

Other types of Protestants actually are pretty united in opposition against it. Mainline Protestants are often committed to social democracy and the welfare state, so even though they are often more wealthy than the average person, they are more likely to reject any overt connection between faith and monetary success. Among the most liberal Mainline Protestants, Christian eschatology is partly understood in terms of personal human responsibility for participating in building the Kingdom of God on earth, which could require government redistribution of wealth.

On the more conservative Protestant spectrum, Calvinists are among the most outspoken critics of the prosperity gospel. According to them, the prosperity gospel perverts the gospel by making it man-centered. Prosperity gospel preachers teach that God used faith when He created the world by the utterance of His voice. Likewise, prosperity preachers tell us, we can use faith to create what we want in this life through our own words, known as “positive confession.” For Calvinists, this is the ultimate insult to God. According to critics of prosperity gospel, God does not have or need faith because He is the object of faith, i.e. we have faith in Him because He is capable of meeting all of our needs, and He has met all of our needs in Christ. In short, Calvinists object to the prosperity gospel because they believe it equates man with God.

Furthermore, there are many Pentecostals who object to the prosperity gospel and consider it a heresy. As Abidewithme has pointed out, the Assemblies of God has condemned it in its position paper “The Believer and Positive Confession.”

The prosperity gospel first emerged out of 1950s Pentecostal healing revivals. The emphasis on faith originally was confined to physical and mental healing, which has always been a cardinal doctrine within Pentecostalism. Overtime, however, a confluence of popular culture (positive thinking), extraordinary economic prosperity, and the constant need for evangelists to fund raise in order to maintain extensive television and other types of ministries led to teaching on how faith could be used to procure financial and social success.

Not surprisingly, these evangelists were operating for the most part outside of the established Pentecostal denominations and their ministries were independent. Therefore, there was very little oversight over their activities allowing them to overemphasize material success in their preaching and engage in unethical methods of fundraising and pastoral counseling.

Well, even prosperity preachers tend to encourage people to do good deeds and give to charity. This is one of the ways that people can “sow seeds.” For example, it was once told to me by an evangelist that if you give away clothes, you will get back better clothes in return. You give away a car, you get a better car in return. God blesses those who give, whether that be to your local church, the t.v. evangelist, or a charity. The more you give, the more you get back.

A favorite verse in prosperity churches is Luke 6:38:

Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

That is how it is all supposed to work in theory. In reality, most prosperity teachers emphasize “sowing seed” to the ministries of the prosperity teachers so that they can spread the gospel and evangelize the world (and maintain their lavish lifestyles). It is implicitly taught that because the prosperity evangelists are doing the best evangelization work (so they claim), if people want the best “return” on their “investment” then they should “sow their seed” into these ministries. It’s like the spiritual version of the stock market.

Thanks for your insight Itwin, it is always good. While I think you were trying to emphasize the giving side of this, usually it is towards the particular ministry and it usually tells people to give so they can “get back”. That is not really the best motivation to give. One should give not expecting to get back in return. Likewise, these teachers put forth the Santa Claus view of God, that God has a big sack of goodies for you and all you have to do is claim it to get it. There is little emphasis on hard work, wise spending, frugality etc. All those things which usually lead people to material prosperity. The emphasis on material “blessing” over shadows spiritual blessings and treasure. Prosperity teachers usually promote a distain for the poor and the view that people are poor because of their fault or sin. The Bible tells us to store up treasures in heaven, not on earth. No where is scripture is the idea found that God owes it to you. But that is what these people promote.

 

[schaeffer]

Most of where I’ve seen the prosperity gospel preached…is on TV and Radio by people who obviously found a way to cash in using Jesus’ name.

I have heard, in churches, the minister say that if “we”, the people of that Church, do have faith and they give generously of their time, self and resources, that they will have their needs met and will be blessed. But not blessed necessarily with wealth.

 

[ltwin]

Thanks for your insight Itwin, it is always good. While I think you were trying to emphasize the giving side of this, usually it is towards the particular ministry and it usually tells people to give so they can “get back”. That is not really the best motivation to give. One should give not expecting to get back in return. Likewise, these teachers put forth the Santa Claus view of God, that God has a big sack of goodies for you and all you have to do is claim it to get it. There is little emphasis on hard work, wise spending, frugality etc. All those things which usually lead people to material prosperity. The emphasis on material “blessing” over shadows spiritual blessings and treasure. Prosperity teachers usually promote a distain for the poor and the view that people are poor because of their fault or sin. The Bible tells us to store up treasures in heaven, not on earth. No where is scripture is the idea found that God owes it to you. But that is what these people promote.

While I agree that the prosperity gospel fosters a “Santa Clause view of God” as you say, I don’t think prosperity teachers promote disdain for the poor. They are, in their view, giving the poor a way out of poverty. During the 70s and 80s, there was a train of thought running through the movement that blamed poverty and sickness on the failure of people to adhere to the immutable laws of faith and reciprocity.

What you find today is much different. Most prosperity teachers do not blame the poor or the sick for their conditions. It is rare to hear someone preach that people are poor because of some flaw in their character or a lack of faith. Rather, what you hear is that a person is in poverty because God wants to demonstrate His glory by bringing them out of poverty through the laws of reciprocity and faith. All God is waiting for is for people to cooperate with Him by having faith, naming and claiming what they want, and then giving to receive (sowing and reaping).

Also, it is rare to hear prosperity preachers discount all personal responsibility. They will emphasize the need to work for what they want. For example, there is an emphasis on stewardship; the idea is that you are a steward of what God has given you and until you prove yourself worthy of handling more God will not give you more. So, you will see prosperity gospel churches holding financial seminars that teach best practices for regular finances as well as give advice on how to start a business or buying a home.

You will hear prosperity preachers teach about the need to get out of debt and not live above your means because we are supposed to be lenders and not borrowers. Granted, you will also hear prosperity preachers encourage audiences to use a credit card if they don’t have any money to give as an offering, so it depends who you are listening to. As a whole though, the movement in general does not disdain poverty because the majority of its adherents are most likely in some form of poverty themselves.

You could say that the most despicable peddlers of this stuff manipulate those in poverty, and that would be a fair statement. However, its a stretch to say that all of them disdain poor and deny the value of hard work.

Job is often the example used. He was blessed by God, and then lost everything. Yet, he remained faithful and was blessed again in a greater measure. Likewise, prosperity churches realize that people will go through trials and tribulations. No prosperity preacher except the most careless would ever say that Christians are supposed to live perfect lives on this earth.

Hard times will happen, even to faithful Christians who pay tithes and give abundantly. Yet, the expectation is that everything that Satan steals from us God will restore “10 fold.” My church use to sing a song based on 1 Samuel 30 called “Enemy’s Camp” that went:

“I went to the enemy’s camp
and I took back what he stole from me.
He’s under my feet, he’s under my feet, he’s under my feet,
Oh Satan is under my feet.”

So, part of our response in times of trial and crisis is to continue to have faith in God, continue to give as we are able, and continue to pray and to make positive declarations of faith.

 

[Contarini]

They don’t ALL believe it, but more believe some form of it than what most of you are saying.

That’s such a vague claim that I don’t even know how to disagree with it. But the original question was pretty offensive, along the lines of “are all priests child molesters?”, so I think a strong response was needed. No one has denied that there are quite a few folks who believe this nonsense, but as Itwin has said they are a subset of one (admittedly large and growing) division of Protestantism.

I do agree it’s more prevalent in the churches that aren’t part of a big denomination. It’s also more common in people of little or no formal education.

Agreed on both counts.

What they don’t believe is that there is any value in suffering of any kind.

If you mean Protestants as a whole, you are just plain wrong and need to stop making slanderous generalizations about your brothers and sisters in Christ.

All the major Protestant traditions talk about the value of suffering. My own family’s version of the Wesleyan Holiness tradition was almost obsessed with it, and in this we were following our heritage, particularly Charles Wesley, as a recent scholarly study has shown. Calvin also talks a great deal about the place of suffering in the Christian life–it’s not just a Wesleyan thing.

Most believe God put us here to be happy and if they aren’t happy they then become even more unhappy. I’ve tried telling many of them God put us hereto be Holy, and if being Holy makes you happy God loves that. But if to be happy means living in sin then that’s wrong. But if you say that most will become irate. This is probably why you see them get upset if you suggest that poverty can bring you closer to God, or something like that.

Have you tried suggesting this to your average Catholic? I mean just picking the first person you find who describes himself/herself as Catholic, or even the first person you run into coming out of Mass? (I.e., not folks on this forum or some other rarefied definition of “true” Catholic.)

This isn’t a Protestant/Catholic thing. It’s a modern American culture thing, and it affects everyone.

In fact, one of the attractions of Catholicism for me was that it was OK to enjoy the innocent pleasures of this world and that the desire to be happy was a good thing, not something of which we should be suspicious (I’m particularly talking about the thought of St. Thomas Aquinas on that last point).

Edwin

 

[Picky_Picky]

That’s such a vague claim that I don’t even know how to disagree with it. But the original question was pretty offensive, along the lines of “are all priests child molesters?”, so I think a strong response was needed. No one has denied that there are quite a few folks who believe this nonsense, but as Itwin has said they are a subset of one (admittedly large and growing) division of Protestantism.

Agreed on both counts.

If you mean Protestants as a whole, you are just plain wrong and need to stop making slanderous generalizations about your brothers and sisters in Christ.

All the major Protestant traditions talk about the value of suffering. My own family’s version of the Wesleyan Holiness tradition was almost obsessed with it, and in this we were following our heritage, particularly Charles Wesley, as a recent scholarly study has shown. Calvin also talks a great deal about the place of suffering in the Christian life–it’s not just a Wesleyan thing.

Have you tried suggesting this to your average Catholic? I mean just picking the first person you find who describes himself/herself as Catholic, or even the first person you run into coming out of Mass? (I.e., not folks on this forum or some other rarefied definition of “true” Catholic.)

This isn’t a Protestant/Catholic thing. It’s a modern American culture thing, and it affects everyone.

In fact, one of the attractions of Catholicism for me was that it was OK to enjoy the innocent pleasures of this world and that the desire to be happy was a good thing, not something of which we should be suspicious (I’m particularly talking about the thought of St. Thomas Aquinas on that last point).

Edwin

Enjoying the innocent pleasures is OK for Anglicans too, though, surely? Unless Archdeacon Grantley had it wrong?

 

[Kliska]

This isn’t a Protestant/Catholic thing. It’s a modern American culture thing, and it affects everyone.

This.

And unfortunately it isn’t just American… and not always limited to modern times.

 

[Tommy999]

I have never believed in the prosperity gospel or name-it claim-it but I do believe in God’s provision for believers based on scripture. Here are a few examples.

Matthew 6:26:
Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they?

Hebrews 13:5:
Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have, for he has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”

Philippians 4:19King James Version (KJV)
19 But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.

The Bible says that God will supply all our “need”, not necessarily all our "greed’.
(gospel according to Tommy).

I liked these verses because I used to have thoughts that were just the opposite of prosperity gospel. At one point in my life I had feelings of insecurity that God might just leave Christians hanging in the wind and that I might not be able to provide the basic necessities for my family. These verses helped put things in perspective for me.

 

[robwar]

While I agree that the prosperity gospel fosters a “Santa Clause view of God” as you say, I don’t think prosperity teachers promote disdain for the poor. They are, in their view, giving the poor a way out of poverty. During the 70s and 80s, there was a train of thought running through the movement that blamed poverty and sickness on the failure of people to adhere to the immutable laws of faith and reciprocity.

What you find today is much different. Most prosperity teachers do not blame the poor or the sick for their conditions. It is rare to hear someone preach that people are poor because of some flaw in their character or a lack of faith. Rather, what you hear is that a person is in poverty because God wants to demonstrate His glory by bringing them out of poverty through the laws of reciprocity and faith. All God is waiting for is for people to cooperate with Him by having faith, naming and claiming what they want, and then giving to receive (sowing and reaping).

Also, it is rare to hear prosperity preachers discount all personal responsibility. They will emphasize the need to work for what they want. For example, there is an emphasis on stewardship; the idea is that you are a steward of what God has given you and until you prove yourself worthy of handling more God will not give you more. So, you will see prosperity gospel churches holding financial seminars that teach best practices for regular finances as well as give advice on how to start a business or buying a home.

You will hear prosperity preachers teach about the need to get out of debt and not live above your means because we are supposed to be lenders and not borrowers. Granted, you will also hear prosperity preachers encourage audiences to use a credit card if they don’t have any money to give as an offering, so it depends who you are listening to. As a whole though, the movement in general does not disdain poverty because the majority of its adherents are most likely in some form of poverty themselves.

You could say that the most despicable peddlers of this stuff manipulate those in poverty, and that would be a fair statement. However, its a stretch to say that all of them disdain poor and deny the value of hard work.

Job is often the example used. He was blessed by God, and then lost everything. Yet, he remained faithful and was blessed again in a greater measure. Likewise, prosperity churches realize that people will go through trials and tribulations. No prosperity preacher except the most careless would ever say that Christians are supposed to live perfect lives on this earth.

Hard times will happen, even to faithful Christians who pay tithes and give abundantly. Yet, the expectation is that everything that Satan steals from us God will restore “10 fold.” My church use to sing a song based on 1 Samuel 30 called “Enemy’s Camp” that went:

“I went to the enemy’s camp
and I took back what he stole from me.
He’s under my feet, he’s under my feet, he’s under my feet,
Oh Satan is under my feet.”

So, part of our response in times of trial and crisis is to continue to have faith in God, continue to give as we are able, and continue to pray and to make positive declarations of faith.

when I went to a WoF church back in the 80’s, distdain for the poor is something I picked up on attending the Church. It is more subtle not overt. I also think that the big Churches and names in the movement are not found in ghettos and among the poor but ususally in well to do places. Now maybe they would point to that as a sign of what they teach but I think it is more of a sign that this message is well received by middle-to upper middle class and this teaching is basically an American phenomena to begin with anyway. If this message is meant for poorer people, you do not see these ministries that preach it, out and among the poor. That I one thing I really like about the Catholic church, it is out among the poor to minister to the poor not at them. Prosperity message is in total contrast to people like St. Francis of Assissi.

 

[ltwin]

when I went to a WoF church back in the 80’s, distdain for the poor is something I picked up on attending the Church. It is more subtle not overt. I also think that the big Churches and names in the movement are not found in ghettos and among the poor but ususally in well to do places. Now maybe they would point to that as a sign of what they teach but I think it is more of a sign that this message is well received by middle-to upper middle class and this teaching is basically an American phenomena to begin with anyway. If this message is meant for poorer people, you do not see these ministries that preach it, out and among the poor. That I one thing I really like about the Catholic church, it is out among the poor to minister to the poor not at them. Prosperity message is in total contrast to people like St. Francis of Assissi.

It is an American phenomenon in the sense that it originated out of 1950s American popular religion and even today most of the thought leaders reside in the US. However, the fastest growth of prosperity gospel churches is in the developing world. South America and Africa are particularly strong areas of growth.

You are right that upwardly mobile people, both in the US and internationally, are attracted to these churches. In part, this is because the prosperity gospel gives them a spiritual explanation for the cause of their success and an ideological framework that both justifies that success and provides a religious strategy for continuing that success.

At the same time, the majority of donations given to TV ministries such as TBN come from lower income people in the Southern United States. It is poor people who sustain the movement through donating to high profile televangelists.

In places like Africa, the prosperity preacher takes on the persona of a shaman. People desperate for economic uplift go to great lengths to gain divine favor through gaining the preacher’s favor. This obviously leads to abuse and manipulation, and it is perpetrated on the most desperate of the poor.

Neither the poor in the US or in other countries support these ministries because they’ve been told they are bad people. They support these ministries because they have been told that if they do they will experience economic uplift. The prosperity gospel does not teach disdain for the poor but is built on giving the poor an escape route out of poverty.

 

[Peter_J]

LOL…coming through loud and clear

I saw “Do all protestants believe the prosperity gospel?” on the list of threads yesterday, but decided not to visit the thread, saying to myself “Well that should be a very short thread.” (Today someone referenced it on another thread, and then I decided to visit it after all. )

 

[Peter_J]

If you mean Protestants as a whole, you are just plain wrong and need to stop making slanderous generalizations about your brothers and sisters in Christ.

Whoa … Protestants are our brothers and sisters in Christ?

:bigyikes::bigyikes:

 

[Peter_J]

(Kidding.)

 

[Seeker2013]

No. If you’re not a Protestant, it’s easy to overestimate the importance or the reach of those prosperity gospel folks because they make a lot of noise compared to more mainline Protestants. When I was a Presbyterian, we learned that Christians were not entitled to prosperity because of our belief in Christ.

 

[MaryT777]

Itwin:

Your posts on this thread are really informative, clear and well written. Thanks for all the info on the prosperity gospel.

Mary.

 

[robwar]

It is an American phenomenon in the sense that it originated out of 1950s American popular religion and even today most of the thought leaders reside in the US. However, the fastest growth of prosperity gospel churches is in the developing world. South America and Africa are particularly strong areas of growth.

You are right that upwardly mobile people, both in the US and internationally, are attracted to these churches. In part, this is because the prosperity gospel gives them a spiritual explanation for the cause of their success and an ideological framework that both justifies that success and provides a religious strategy for continuing that success.

At the same time, the majority of donations given to TV ministries such as TBN come from lower income people in the Southern United States. It is poor people who sustain the movement through donating to high profile televangelists.

In places like Africa, the prosperity preacher takes on the persona of a shaman. People desperate for economic uplift go to great lengths to gain divine favor through gaining the preacher’s favor. This obviously leads to abuse and manipulation, and it is perpetrated on the most desperate of the poor.

Neither the poor in the US or in other countries support these ministries because they’ve been told they are bad people. They support these ministries because they have been told that if they do they will experience economic uplift. The prosperity gospel does not teach disdain for the poor but is built on giving the poor an escape route out of poverty.

Yes, all those observations are true. While is it usually lower economic classes that give to these ministries and upper economic classes that attend their churches (usually), I do still think that the prosperity teachers and ministries are not focused on the poor in the sense for practical help. The generosity is thin and weak for the less financially gifted. The emphasis on giving is a selfish one, give because you will get in stead of give because someone else needs it and that giving honors God by serving others whether you have a return or not. The prosperity message is a selfish one really. Its proponents live lavish lifestyles in which a number of them have ended in scandal.

 

[ltwin]

Its proponents live lavish lifestyles in which a number of them have ended in scandal.

This is true when speaking of the celebrity personalities like Osteen, T.D. Jakes, the Crouches, etc. Also, it should be pointed out that men like Osteen and Jakes have went on to write books and began businesses, so all of their money is not coming from religious donations. This is many times overlooked. It is true, however, that they could never have been successful as they have been without the boost they received from becoming successful prosperity preachers.

Yet, there are many preachers who preach a prosperity message or various elements of the prosperity message who are not rich. Many pastor struggling churches and are economically on the same level as their parishioners.

 

[lifeandhope]

As a Catholic that grew up Evangelical, I have a lot of experience with this prosperity gospel notion. From the time I was a child to my Catholic coming home three years ago, I was a member or attended American Baptist, Southern Baptist, Vineyard, and/or nondenominational churches. I worked for five years in a major parachurch ministry and have interacted with a great deal of Evangelical Christians (I am not familiar with the traditions other than those I have mentioned, so I am not speaking, in my experience, of Lutheran, Anglican, etc. Protestant denominations). It was, in fact the insidious Health & Wealth Gospel that drove me away and into the arms of the Catholic Church.

As an Evangelical, even though the H&W ideation was not always as blatant as say, Osteen or Joyce Meyer message, it pervaded throughout the underlying perception of the Christian life. That is, if you do what God wants you to do and lead a good life, you will be blessed. On the other hand, if there is suffering in your life or you encounter problems that are not easily remedied, there is sin in your life and you are not being blessed by God. I used to completely buy into this thought. I am ashamed that I, without realizing it, judged others in this manner and thought I must be “right with God” because my life was blessed.

Enter Genetic Cancer Disease…and a whole lot of suffering that continues today and will continue the rest of my life. I lost my dad to the disease (God rest his beloved soul), both of my daughters have the disease (one has at least three tumors already at ten years old), and I’ve almost lost my only brother to the disease several times over. I have thankfully escaped death so far but have gone through a great deal of suffering, and I went to my church family and friends for support and comfort. I received little; I won’t take too much time detailing my journey except to say I went to many churches seeking support and the attitude (and often directly I was told these things by church leadership) was that if I was not healed completely of my disease (the generational curse, often it was said) then it was because there was a hidden sin in my life or that God was not blessing me because I did not have enough faith.

Of course I don’t have enough faith! It is constantly my prayer, “I believe! Help Thou mine unbelief!” Throughout the journey I found the Catholic Church and was drawn in largely due to the fact that those who suffer are not distained, but are even respected for their sufferings, and that I was encouraged to unite my sufferings to the sufferings of Christ and so fellowship in His sufferings. I still suffer, but the why I cope with that suffering and how I view it (now through the lens of Catholicism), is different.

All this to say, I personally found the H&W ideology to be pervasive in the many Evangelical circles I have traveled in over many years, and it hurt me to the point it drove me to the Catholic Church. I am very grateful for that. But feel bad for those still under the umbrella of this ideation–they don’t even realize it oftentimes.

God’s blessings on all on here, and may we all suffer with the honor of knowing we suffer with Christ.

 

[Crusaderbear]

I’m living about 5 miles from Falwell’s Liberty University, the heart of Baptist country, from my experience, every Baptist church has it’s own variation on what is the truth, and very few i’ve encountered preach prosperity.

 

[Graceful_Lamb]

No.