Do animals not sin?

[Anathama_Sit]

The Church teaching is that only humans have immortal souls. By definition that means no other creatures have immortal souls, i.e. when an animal dies their souls cease to exist.

Greetings Thistle,

However, God is Almighty. And I am sure if he wanted the animals to go to heaven, then they would. I would wish that the Church taught whether animals went to heaven or not. Guess I hope to find out by the grace of God should I make it to heaven.

God Bless.
Anathama Sit

 

[severus68]

The Church teaching is that only humans have immortal souls. By definition that means no other creatures have immortal souls, i.e. when an animal dies their souls cease to exist.

That was St Thomas Aquinas. The ever loving God decides on what happens to the animals.

 

[severus68]

Greetings Thistle,

However, God is Almighty. And I am sure if he wanted the animals to go to heaven, then they would. I would wish that the Church taught whether animals went to heaven or not. Guess I hope to find out by the grace of God should I make it to heaven.

God Bless.
Anathama Sit

Well put.

 

[thistle]

The Church teaching:

CCC 367 Sometimes the soul is distinguished from the spirit: St. Paul for instance prays that God may sanctify his people “wholly”, with “spirit and soul and body” kept sound and blameless at the Lord’s coming. The Church teaches that this distinction does not introduce a duality into the soul. “Spirit” signifies that** from creation man is ordered to a supernatural end and that his soul can gratuitously be raised beyond all it deserves to communion with God.**

That means animals do NOT have a supernatural end and so their souls cease to exist when they die.

 

[centurionguard]

The Church teaching is that only humans have immortal souls. By definition that means no other creatures have immortal souls, i.e. when an animal dies their souls cease to exist.

I usually never enter into threads like these because I find them irritating.

I can never understand people who try in some shape or form or in a diminished fashion to place God’s lower creatures on the same footing as humans.

I enjoy God’s beauty in nature and creatures like everybody else. All lower creatures serve a purpose in life. But its certainly not to esteem and raise these lower creatures on some semi-glorified pedestal.

All the beauty and glory of God’s creatures serve Him only. So it is right that such should go back to God only when these creatures die.

 

[Catholic90]

Greetings Thistle,

However, God is Almighty. And I am sure if he wanted the animals to go to heaven, then they would. I would wish that the Church taught whether animals went to heaven or not. Guess I hope to find out by the grace of God should I make it to heaven.

God Bless.
Anathama Sit

Exactly!

God is all powerful, so He takes care of ALL of HIS creation!

Who knows - perhaps St. Francis is in charge of the critters! One day, we shall know. Until that day, all anyone down here can do is speculate.

 

[Waiting]

Greetings Waiting,

This is not what the Church teaches. Is what you have proposed your personal belief? IF it is not, where are you getting this belief?

God Bless.
Anathama Sit

I learned that in my Rational Psychology class at Loyola University many years ago. When I say soul I’m not referring to one made in the image of God. All living things have to have something that keeps them living, and when that source is gone, that object is no longer living. Such as when our soul leaves our body, we are no longer living. The priest when called to give the last rites will give it conditionally if the person is not breathing, on the chance that the soul has not yet departed. Plants and animals need a source of life. That’s called the soul. At least it was called that in the 1950s.

 

[severus68]

Exactly!

God is all powerful, so He takes care of ALL of HIS creation!

Who knows - perhaps St. Francis is in charge of the critters! One day, we shall know. Until that day, all anyone down here can do is speculate.

 

[Waiting]

Please read more carefully. I said animals do not have spiritual souls.

They have material souls.

Ike, I was not writing to you when I explained about animal souls. Sorry if you thought I was criticizing.

 

[Waiting]

Greetings Thistle,

However, God is Almighty. And I am sure if he wanted the animals to go to heaven, then they would. I would wish that the Church taught whether animals went to heaven or not. Guess I hope to find out by the grace of God should I make it to heaven.

God Bless.
Anathama Sit

Hi, Anathama

I want to see my pets in heaven, too. Logically, I know that their soul dies with them, however, I once read a letter from a priest to a little boy who was disconsolate because he was told that his dog could not go to heaven. The priest answered that in heaven everyone is perfectly happy, and if when you get to heaven you need that pet for complete happiness, you will have him. Does that mean that there are pets in heaven? Like you, I’ll have to wait until I get there to find out.

 

[Anathama_Sit]

The Church teaching:

CCC 367 Sometimes the soul is distinguished from the spirit: St. Paul for instance prays that God may sanctify his people “wholly”, with “spirit and soul and body” kept sound and blameless at the Lord’s coming. The Church teaches that this distinction does not introduce a duality into the soul. “Spirit” signifies that** from creation man is ordered to a supernatural end and that his soul can gratuitously be raised beyond all it deserves to communion with God.**

That means animals do NOT have a supernatural end and so their souls cease to exist when they die.

Greetings Thistle,

Yes their souls cease to exist when they die. But no where in Church Teaching does it say that animals will not go to heaven. I refer you to my earlier post in where saying that if God wished for them to be there, they will be there.

One can hope.

God Bless.
Anathama Sit

 

[Anathama_Sit]

I learned that in my Rational Psychology class at Loyola University many years ago. When I say soul I’m not referring to one made in the image of God. All living things have to have something that keeps them living, and when that source is gone, that object is no longer living. Such as when our soul leaves our body, we are no longer living. The priest when called to give the last rites will give it conditionally if the person is not breathing, on the chance that the soul has not yet departed. Plants and animals need a source of life. That’s called the soul. At least it was called that in the 1950s.

Greetings Waiting,

I can understand that. I should have realized what you were saying. I was posting kind of late that night and as alluded to I should have asked what you meant. My apologies if I came across sounding crass, it was not my intention.

God Bless.
Anathama Sit

 

[Anathama_Sit]

Hi, Anathama

I want to see my pets in heaven, too. Logically, I know that their soul dies with them, however, I once read a letter from a priest to a little boy who was disconsolate because he was told that his dog could not go to heaven. The priest answered that in heaven everyone is perfectly happy, and if when you get to heaven you need that pet for complete happiness, you will have him. Does that mean that there are pets in heaven? Like you, I’ll have to wait until I get there to find out.

Greetings Waiting,

Oh one can truly hope. “Yet not my will be done, but Thine” That priest sure did answer the question very good. Kudos to him. Thanks for sharing that story. It made me smile.

I slept with my cat last night. I enjoyed it and I thought about this thread. I recently asked a priest friend what he thought about the entire thing. He said that he did not know, but how about I enjoy the present moment. And the present moment at that time was cuddling with my cat. Truly a wise answer as well.

God Bless.
Anathama Sit

 

[Anathama_Sit]

I usually never enter into threads like these because I find them irritating.

I can never understand people who try in some shape or form or in a diminished fashion to place God’s lower creatures on the same footing as humans.

I enjoy God’s beauty in nature and creatures like everybody else. All lower creatures serve a purpose in life. But its certainly not to esteem and raise these lower creatures on some semi-glorified pedestal.

All the beauty and glory of God’s creatures serve Him only. So it is right that such should go back to God only when these creatures die.

Greetings Centurionsguard,

It is not that I am trying in some shape or form or in a diminused fashion to palce God’s lwer creatures on the same footing as humans. I think you are missing the point of why I am posting the reason that I am posting.

No one in this thread to my knowledge has said anything that your puport or charge them in doing in your response. No one is saying that we should raise them on a pedestal.

God Bless.
Anathama Sit

 

[thistle]

Greetings Thistle,

Yes their souls cease to exist when they die. But no where in Church Teaching does it say that animals will not go to heaven. I refer you to my earlier post in where saying that if God wished for them to be there, they will be there.

One can hope.

God Bless.
Anathama Sit

Think about it. Going to Heaven (or Hell) means having a supernatural end. Animals do not have a supernatural end so they cannot go to Heaven. Their bodies and souls cease to exist when they die.
It would be ridiculous if in all the Church teachings they have to put in brackets “this does not apply to animals”.

It also amuses me seeing a number of people (like fanatical pet lovers) trying to circumvent Church teachings by saying yes we believe what the Church teaches but God can do anything he wants!!!

 

[roveau]

Animals don’t ever reach the ‘age of reason’, and they are not human, so they can’t be judged for sin.

They do ‘sin’ though, for example, in terms of that certain animals (especially birds) have been scientifically studied to show that they use deliberate deception to obtain advantages at the cost of others, like, in obtaining food and the ‘access to partners’.

 

[severus68]

Think about it. Going to Heaven (or Hell) means having a supernatural end. Animals do not have a supernatural end so they cannot go to Heaven. Their bodies and souls cease to exist when they die.
It would be ridiculous if in all the Church teachings they have to put in brackets “this does not apply to animals”.

It also amuses me seeing a number of people (like fanatical pet lovers) trying to circumvent Church teachings by saying yes we believe what the Church teaches but God can do anything he wants!!!

It amuses me that some are adamant and make it a cause to put down anyone who thinks differently about what happens to animals. Thinking/believing animals go to heaven is not against any infalliable teachings.
Also, you may disagree and give your own views but you show show such a lack of courtesy/respect when you do so.

 

[Marie5890]

Is it an actual infallibly taught dogma that there are no other creatures in heaven other than humans or is it one of those extrapolated ideas like “limbo”?

I know someone posted a portion of the CCC but I read that as referring to humans, yet being silent on other creatures.

 

[thistle]

Is it an actual infallibly taught dogma that there are no other creatures in heaven other than humans or is it one of those extrapolated ideas like “limbo”?

I know someone posted a portion of the CCC but I read that as referring to humans, yet being silent on other creatures.

Its simply wishing thinking on the part of pet lovers that animals go to Heaven.
Why anyone could possibly think they need their pet dog there when they are in the presence of God is beyond me. Being in Heaven with God is the ultimate. I won’t need my pets there to complete my happiness (if I get there of course!)

 

[Marie5890]

Its simply wishing thinking on the part of pet lovers that animals go to Heaven.
Why anyone could possibly think they need their pet dog there when they are in the presence of God is beyond me. Being in Heaven with God is the ultimate. I won’t need my pets there to complete my happiness (if I get there of course!)

I hear what you are saying, but that doesnt answer my question.

Is it taught as an infallible dogma? Or is it an assumption/extrapolation (whatever word one wants to use) sort of idea that is similar to the belief of “limbo”?

That is what I am wondering.