Do animals not sin?

[domandcarols]

My dog ate my rosary once. I fell asleep praying it, and when I woke up it was all over the place. Animals don’t sin, but my dog will have to spend some time in purgatory for this one.

Lol

 

[Catholic90]

There is no infallible teaching on animals in heaven.

The FACT is no one knows! God takes care of ALL His creation. Period. We will find out if animals are in heaven when we pass!

Be respectful of those who disagree with you, thistle. Especially since some of us have very recently lost dear pets.

 

[Catholic90]

God’s mercy is infinite.

 

[Marie5890]

God’s mercy is infinite.

And God is Love. And God created all. So Love created all.

Love created it’s Creation in all of it’s diversity.

I can see why there has been no definitive statement.

And with no definitive statements, people’s personal thoughts/biases/preference will wonder and consider the Mystery of Creation, it It’s entirety.

 

[Marie5890]

There is no infallible teaching on animals in heaven.

The FACT is no one knows! God takes care of ALL His creation. Period. We will find out if animals are in heaven when we pass!

Be respectful of those who disagree with you, thistle. Especially since some of us have very recently lost dear pets.

Thanks for the clarification, Catholic90.

From all that I have researched I was never able to come up with the Magisterium making any declaration, one way or the other, on the issue.

 

[Catholic90]

And God is Love. And God created all. So Love created all.

Love created it’s Creation in all of it’s diversity.

I can see why there has been no definitive statement.

And with no definitive statements, people’s personal thoughts/biases/preference will wonder and consider the Mystery of Creation, it It’s entirety.

 

[Newbie2]

Animals dont have soles, theyy dont feal pane, or emotionz, thats fer sure.
And they dont sin nd niether do peeple, i think it’s cuz um there was this dude that dyed a really really really loooooooong time ago so that we could lyke do wutevr we wanted without worryyng about sins and all that crazy stuff. haha hope that hellpz!

Um…is this a serious post? What’s with the cutsie misspellings?

Animals act on instinct.
Only human souls go to heaven or hell because we have knowledge of our creator (God) and have the capacity to love Him. Animals just don’t even know what being alive is, they don’t even know that they will die.

Animals act on more than instinct; they do have some measure of choice, especially in the case of domesticated animals i.e. pets.

Animals cannot sin because they have no free will.

St Thomas Aquinas said that animals do not have immortal souls.Others have posted that when animals die, that is it. I will leave it to God to decide about what happens to the animals he created and loves too.

That was St Thomas Aquinas. The ever loving God decides on what happens to the animals.

Yep.

The Church teaching:

CCC 367 Sometimes the soul is distinguished from the spirit: St. Paul for instance prays that God may sanctify his people “wholly”, with “spirit and soul and body” kept sound and blameless at the Lord’s coming. The Church teaches that this distinction does not introduce a duality into the soul. “Spirit” signifies that** from creation man is ordered to a supernatural end and that his soul can gratuitously be raised beyond all it deserves to communion with God.**

That means animals do NOT have a supernatural end and so their souls cease to exist when they die.

Maybe, maybe not. Methinks your conclusion, based on that evidence, is a stretch. Not that I necessarily disagree with the conclusion, just that it’s not supported well.

Think about it. Going to Heaven (or Hell) means having a supernatural end. Animals do not have a supernatural end so they cannot go to Heaven. Their bodies and souls cease to exist when they die.
It would be ridiculous if in all the Church teachings they have to put in brackets “this does not apply to animals”.

It also amuses me seeing a number of people (like fanatical pet lovers) trying to circumvent Church teachings by saying yes we believe what the Church teaches but God can do anything he wants!!!

Pehaps, but the Church is not explicit in her teachings on animals. She does not make a judgment on if the souls of animals cease to exist or not, even though the implication is that such is not the case (souls existing after physical death).

Animals don’t ever reach the ‘age of reason’, and they are not human, so they can’t be judged for sin.

They do ‘sin’ though, for example, in terms of that certain animals (especially birds) have been scientifically studied to show that they use deliberate deception to obtain advantages at the cost of others, like, in obtaining food and the ‘access to partners’.

Such deception isn’t sin though, agreed?

I hear what you are saying, but that doesnt answer my question.

Is it taught as an infallible dogma? Or is it an assumption/extrapolation (whatever word one wants to use) sort of idea that is similar to the belief of “limbo”?

That is what I am wondering.

It is not a defined dogma. However, it seems to be an implicit teaching, meaning that it is reasonable speculation, yes, in a way similar to limbo. We don’t know where the souls of unbaptized babies go. We don’t know where the souls of animals go, or even if they continue to exist. It would seem not, but there are no clear or perhaps better put as explicit teachings on animal souls.

There is no infallible teaching on animals in heaven.

The FACT is no one knows! God takes care of ALL His creation. Period. We will find out if animals are in heaven when we pass!

Be respectful of those who disagree with you, thistle. Especially since some of us have very recently lost dear pets.

I think Thistle’s point is that emotions can be very strong and can possibly lead us to conclusions that are erroneous.

In the course of my profession, I’ve ushered many, many pets from this life. Some of my clients say they look forward to seeing them again in heaven. I keep my mouth shut; two minutes after euthanizing a person’s beloved companion isn’t the time to discuss theological matters on the fate of the souls of animals.

Personally, I believe that (most pets, anyway * ) are a reflection of the Almighty for us to experience during our time here on earth…kind of like seeing a beautiful sunset. As to whether or not their souls will be present and/or recognizable in the afterlife, methinks that when we get there it will be irrelevant.

We won’t be looking to see fido or fluffy again, who were the reflection of the Almighty, we’ll see him directly.

My thoughts only, take them for what they’re worth…

• There are some cats that I’ve come across, however, that I’m convinced are the bodily expression of pure evil. Contrary, nasty, malevolent creatures bent on making the life of a veterinarian pure hell, or at the very least, ruining his or her day.

 

[Trevor_Stamm]

Greetings Thistle,

Yes their souls cease to exist when they die. But no where in Church Teaching does it say that animals will not go to heaven. I refer you to my earlier post in where saying that if God wished for them to be there, they will be there.

One can hope.

God Bless.
Anathama Sit

I would like to hear an argument reasoning how a soul ceases to exist yet the animal goes to heaven without a soul. But that, your saying the body of the animal is in heaven? How is a body operating without a soul?

Looking forward to seeing a good constructed thesis.

 

[severus68]

There is no infallible teaching on animals in heaven.

The FACT is no one knows! God takes care of ALL His creation. Period. We will find out if animals are in heaven when we pass!

Be respectful of those who disagree with you, thistle. Especially since some of us have very recently lost dear pets.

Yes and yes.

 

[Anathama_Sit]

Think about it. Going to Heaven (or Hell) means having a supernatural end. Animals do not have a supernatural end so they cannot go to Heaven. Their bodies and souls cease to exist when they die.
It would be ridiculous if in all the Church teachings they have to put in brackets “this does not apply to animals”.

It also amuses me seeing a number of people (like fanatical pet lovers) trying to circumvent Church teachings by saying yes we believe what the Church teaches but God can do anything he wants!!!

Greetings Thistle,

Your last sentence. It speaks volumes. I do not mean to argue, and that is not what I wish to do.

But show me where it says explicitly where animals do not go to heaven. I do not think anyone knows the answer to this question.

Again why argue over it, it seems a bit pointless. We will know once we get to heaven. And last time I checked I do not think it is a De Fide doctrine either way if I believe that animals go to heaven or if they do not go to heaven. The Church does not say dogmatically either way. If it does and you can lead me to the documentation then I will have learned something new.

I am saying that with God ALL things are possible. Why is that so hard to accept?

God Bless.
Anathama Sit

 

[Anathama_Sit]

I would like to hear an argument reasoning how a soul ceases to exist yet the animal goes to heaven without a soul. But that, your saying the body of the animal is in heaven? How is a body operating without a soul?

Looking forward to seeing a good constructed thesis.

Greetings Trevor Stamm,

Never in my post did I say that they were going to be their without their souls. I do not know why you seemed to see that I was saying that they would not be there without their souls.

Simple I can give you a good thesis.

God is Almighty. [That should not need any explanation.] All should follow from this first statement.

God Bless.
Anathama Sit

 

[Anathama_Sit]

I would like to hear an argument reasoning how a soul ceases to exist yet the animal goes to heaven without a soul. But that, your saying the body of the animal is in heaven? How is a body operating without a soul?

Looking forward to seeing a good constructed thesis.

Greetings Trevor Stamm,

Never in my post did I say that they were going to be in heaven without their souls. I do not know why you seemed to see that I was saying that they would not be there without their souls.

Because you seemed to have misread something in my earlier post, I do discline to answer it because I never purported what you imply that I was saying in my prior post.

Common sense says if the animals were going to be in heaven they would have their souls too. God could bring their souls back. He is Almighty.

God Bless.
Anathama Sit

 

[Trevor_Stamm]

Never in my post did I say that they were going to be in heaven without their souls. I do not know why you seemed to see that I was saying that they would not be there without their souls.

Apologies, logic followed that since you acknowledged their souls cease at a death,

Yes their souls cease to exist when they die. But no where in Church Teaching does it say that animals will not go to heaven.

and believed animals goto heaven, the only explanation for this was without their souls, for they do not exist anymore. Had no idea you believe the following…

God could bring their souls back.

So we have this process:

An animal is alive materially, thus has a soul
The animal’s body dies and their souls cease to exist
God brings back their soul
God brings them into Heaven

Is this what you are proposing? If not, correct it and discard the following request.

Let’s rephrase my request, explain why the soul of an animal ceases to exist after death then God brings it back into existence. Wouldn’t it be more logical to just let that soul continue to exist as human souls do? If that is more logical and thus the stronger case, why is it doctrine to say their soul ceases to exist after their bodily death?

On the side, what is your prime motive for this belief?

 

[thistle]

I hear what you are saying, but that doesnt answer my question.

Is it taught as an infallible dogma? Or is it an assumption/extrapolation (whatever word one wants to use) sort of idea that is similar to the belief of “limbo”?

That is what I am wondering.

It is an infallible teaching that only humans have a supernatural end.

 

[severus68]

It is an infallible teaching that only humans have a supernatural end.

No it is not and another has responded to your earlier quote. Why are you pushing it? We know you disagree, you have made it clear enough.

 

[Marie5890]

It is an infallible teaching that only humans have a supernatural end.

“only”?

I haven’t seen that word used in definitive terms to be honest.

All I see is the church addressing the status of human beings.
I see the church as silent on all others.

To me it appears you try to extrapolate a conclusion.

 

[Anathama_Sit]

Apologies, logic followed that since you acknowledged their souls cease at a death,

and believed animals goto heaven, the only explanation for this was without their souls, for they do not exist anymore. Had no idea you believe the following…

So we have this process:

An animal is alive materially, thus has a soul
The animal’s body dies and their souls cease to exist
God brings back their soul
God brings them into Heaven

Is this what you are proposing? If not, correct it and discard the following request.

Let’s rephrase my request, explain why the soul of an animal ceases to exist after death then God brings it back into existence. Wouldn’t it be more logical to just let that soul continue to exist as human souls do? If that is more logical and thus the stronger case, why is it doctrine to say their soul ceases to exist after their bodily death?

On the side, what is your prime motive for this belief?

Greetings Trevor Stamm,

Now we are on the same page. That is the process. However God can use any process he wants to use. I am just trying to figure out what would happen should animals go to heaven. [Church is silent on this issue.]

It would be more logical to let the animal soul exist even after death, but that it not in that “soul” of an animal to do so. But how many things does God allow in His permissive Will that seem quite illogical. I have to confess my knowledge in quite limited as anyone elses in this matter. I never passed off what I said was doctine either. It is merely a speculation and an explanation as to how this could be possible.

My prime motive for this belief. I am not sure. I shall think seriously on this one and then get back to this thread. I guess I can easily believe it because God is Almighty. I can also accept the other side of the coin as well. I am not sure what is going to happen, that is why in all of my posts I have always stated, I guess with the grace of God should I make it to heaven, I will find out eventually.

The Church does not teach on the issue on either side. It is open. It is not heretical to believe either way.

God Bless.
Anathama Sit

 

[Anathama_Sit]

It is an infallible teaching that only humans have a supernatural end.

That is an infallible statement. Animals not going to heaven is NOT an infallible statement. Nor is the statement Animals do go to heaven infallible either.

God Bless.
Anathama Sit

 

[Catholic90]

• There are some cats that I’ve come across, however, that I’m convinced are the bodily expression of pure evil. Contrary, nasty, malevolent creatures bent on making the life of a veterinarian pure hell, or at the very least, ruining his or her day.

Well, that is because to the cats, YOU represent evil, pain, and sticking things where they don’t belong! They are not going to show you their sweet side when you sticking thermometers up their back side! Then there are the needles, the other evil dogs in the clinic, and the whole unsettling car ride to get to you! Baaaaad combo!

 

[thistle]

That is an infallible statement. Animals not going to heaven is NOT an infallible statement. Nor is the statement Animals do go to heaven infallible either.

God Bless.
Anathama Sit

CCC 367 Sometimes the soul is distinguished from the spirit: St. Paul for instance prays that God may sanctify his people “wholly”, with “spirit and soul and body” kept sound and blameless at the Lord’s coming. The Church teaches that this distinction does not introduce a duality into the soul. “Spirit” signifies that from creation man is ordered to a supernatural end and that his soul can gratuitously be raised beyond all it deserves to communion with God.

The Church teaching is that man and not man plus animals have a supernatural end.
That means animals do NOT have a supernatural end and so their souls cease to exist when they die. Therefore they do not go to Heaven when they die.
This has nothing to do with God having the power to recreate them later in Heaven. When we talk about “going to Heaven” we are talking about where souls go at death. Humans go to Hell, Purgatory or Heaven. Animals souls simply cease to exist.