Do animals not sin?

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thistle said:
CCC 367 Sometimes the soul is distinguished from the spirit: St. Paul for instance prays that God may sanctify his people “wholly”, with “spirit and soul and body” kept sound and blameless at the Lord’s coming. The Church teaches that this distinction does not introduce a duality into the soul. “Spirit” signifies that from creation man is ordered to a supernatural end and that his soul can gratuitously be raised beyond all it deserves to communion with God.

The Church teaching is that man and not man plus animals have a supernatural end.
That means animals do NOT have a supernatural end and so their souls cease to exist when they die. Therefore they do not go to Heaven when they die.
This has nothing to do with God having the power to recreate them later in Heaven. When we talk about “going to Heaven” we are talking about where souls go at death. Humans go to Hell, Purgatory or Heaven. Animals souls simply cease to exist.
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You have already quoted this, thank you. I ask again, why are you pushing this?
 
thistle said:
CCC 367 Sometimes the soul is distinguished from the spirit: St. Paul for instance prays that God may sanctify his people “wholly”, with “spirit and soul and body” kept sound and blameless at the Lord’s coming. The Church teaches that this distinction does not introduce a duality into the soul. “Spirit” signifies that from creation man is ordered to a supernatural end and that his soul can gratuitously be raised beyond all it deserves to communion with God.

The Church teaching is that man and not man plus animals have a supernatural end.
That means animals do NOT have a supernatural end and so their souls cease to exist when they die. Therefore they do not go to Heaven when they die.
This has nothing to do with God having the power to recreate them later in Heaven. When we talk about “going to Heaven” we are talking about where souls go at death. Humans go to Hell, Purgatory or Heaven. Animals souls simply cease to exist.
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The catechism talks of humans. Nothing is said about animals. You are simply extrapolating your opinion. Nothing more. There is no official Church teaching on animals in the afterlife!

Why is it so important to you that animals not be in God’s care after they die?
 
Thistle,

Do you realize you are making an extrapolation on this?

It’s a sincere question on my part because I do realize that sometimes we, as human beings, don’t know when we are doing that. 🙂
 
Catholic90 said:
Well, that is because to the cats, YOU represent evil, pain, and sticking things where they don’t belong! :eek: They are not going to show you their sweet side when you sticking thermometers up their back side! Then there are the needles, the other evil dogs in the clinic, and the whole unsettling car ride to get to you! Baaaaad combo!😉
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Greetings Catholic90,

That’s a pretty funny picture. Where did you find it?

God Bless.
Anathama Sit
 
thistle said:
CCC 367 Sometimes the soul is distinguished from the spirit: St. Paul for instance prays that God may sanctify his people “wholly”, with “spirit and soul and body” kept sound and blameless at the Lord’s coming. The Church teaches that this distinction does not introduce a duality into the soul. “Spirit” signifies that from creation man is ordered to a supernatural end and that his soul can gratuitously be raised beyond all it deserves to communion with God.

The Church teaching is that man and not man plus animals have a supernatural end.
That means animals do NOT have a supernatural end and so their souls cease to exist when they die. Therefore they do not go to Heaven when they die.
This has nothing to do with God having the power to recreate them later in Heaven. When we talk about “going to Heaven” we are talking about where souls go at death. Humans go to Hell, Purgatory or Heaven. Animals souls simply cease to exist.
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Greetings Thistle,

Okay what do you have to say about many of the saints who saw flowers and gardens in heaven. Obviously those don’t have a supernatural end either, but what are they doing up there?

Actually the Church is silent where animals are concerned. It is that silence that seems to invite belief either way. The Church is clear where human souls go, it is not clear nor does it say EXPLICITLY where animal souls go.

God Bless.
Anathama Sit
 
Anathama_Sit said:
Greetings Thistle,

Okay what do you have to say about many of the saints who saw flowers and gardens in heaven. Obviously those don’t have a supernatural end either, but what are they doing up there?

Actually the Church is silent where animals are concerned. It is that silence that seems to invite belief either way. The Church is clear where human souls go, it is not clear nor does it say EXPLICITLY where animal souls go.

God Bless.
Anathama Sit
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Its like flogging a dead horse here.
Obviously the pet lovers do not think being in the presence of God forever is sufficient. I wonder what God thinks of that??
I’m bowing out now.
 
thistle said:
Its like flogging a dead horse here.
Obviously the pet lovers do not think being in the presence of God forever is sufficient. I wonder what God thinks of that??
I’m bowing out now.
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Greetings Thistle,

You are implying this yet again. I think it is quite telling that you do not answer anyone else that has addressed fair questions to you in this thread.

Hmmm guess you did not have anything to say about the flowers and gardens in heaven either. You silence is so telling.

Oh the exit is right there you can’t miss it. 😃

God Bless.
Anathama Sit
 
Catholic90 said:
Well, that is because to the cats, YOU represent evil, pain, and sticking things where they don’t belong! :eek: They are not going to show you their sweet side when you sticking thermometers up their back side! Then there are the needles, the other evil dogs in the clinic, and the whole unsettling car ride to get to you! Baaaaad combo!😉
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We use infrared ear thermometers. 😃

No, I’m convinced from the thousands of cats that I’ve seen, patients or not, that some are pure evil. :eek:
 
stanncie said:
I’m pretty sure the previous poster is right. All living beings have souls it’s just that only human beings have immortal souls. The souls of animals and plants die when their physical being dies
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I don’t think this is about souls, I think it’s about choice. Guilt isn’t imputed for acts, even if the ac ts are objectively sinful. Someone has to know that it’s sinful and do it anyway. Animals lack the intellectual capacity to understand their behavior or it’s nature. Animals can’t sin for the same reason babies can’t sin, but we don’t doubt babies have souls.

I expect to see all my dogs when I pass, BTW, but that’s another thread.
 
Julia_Mae said:
I don’t think this is about souls, I think it’s about choice. Guilt isn’t imputed for acts, even if the ac ts are objectively sinful. Someone has to know that it’s sinful and do it anyway. Animals lack the intellectual capacity to understand their behavior or it’s nature. Animals can’t sin for the same reason babies can’t sin, but we don’t doubt babies have souls.

I expect to see all my dogs when I pass, BTW, but that’s another thread.
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And I expect to see all my dogs, cats and birds.🙂
 
thistle said:
Its like flogging a dead horse here.
Obviously the pet lovers do not think being in the presence of God forever is sufficient. I wonder what God thinks of that??
I’m bowing out now.
Click to expand...
Not really flogging a dead horse, Thistle. 🙂
It’s just clear that your thoughts on the topic are based on extrapolation of what is taught by the church.

No harm in that, in and of itself, as long as people understand the difference between extrapolations and actual teachings. 👍

There is nothing wrong with thoughts that there are no animals in heaven, since there is no explicit teachings one way or the other.

It’s only wrong when one put that forth as being the actual teaching.

The most intellectually honest answer is that the church is silent on the matter.
 
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Julia_Mae said:
Pictures deleted becuase I did not want to respost a reply with these pictures.
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Greetings Julia Mae,

So just because there’s an odd sign out there makes something true that the Church is silent on?

God Bless.
Anathama Sit
 
Prayer for animals:

O God, bless the animals, creatures of Yours who are so busy performing the tasks You have set them, that they have no time to wonder whether You exist
.:amen:
 
When our 19 year old cat succumbed to illness, a cyst on his esophagus and fluid around his heart, he could not breath without severe pain and was in an oxygen chamber. We decided to ask the vet to euthanize him because we could not take him home.

My teenage girls cried. I cried and my husband cried. One girl said now Shadow is in heaven and it made her feel better. The other girl said, that is not what the church teaches. he can’t be in heaven.

I intervened and said we don’t know and he is out of pain and tried to steer the conversation away from this argument as it was not the time with the deceased cat in my daughter’s arms to tell her that her beloved pet was gone and she would never see him again.

Will animals be resurrected and experience the glory of God? I don’t know. I don’t think that any of Jesus teachings or the Early Church Fathers were able to definitively say that cats, dogs, pet fish, birds, cattle, hogs, etc. will be at our side in heaven. If a dog or cat goes to heaven, do alligators and lions and tigers and bears? What about spiders?

It is a mystery.
 
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