Do any Catholics here not believe some Marian apparitions?

[ffg]

Church approved, yes.

Not approved, evaluate the situation /do not ignore good that comes from them.

If someone is trying scam, or if someone is just dillusional, or mentally ill, the evaluation process will iron it out.

In the end, it’s important to note the subject to which Mary points - Jesus.

She never takes credit for who she is, she just points to the key that will unlock a person’s life to the fullest.

 

[CrossofChrist]

I believe 0 of the ones not approved or pending approval. Or at least close to 0. In general I’m skeptical of Marian apparitions.

I believe in the approved ones but don’t have a really strong devotion to any of them.

St. Mary, Mother of God, pray for us!

 

[Micosil]

To continue with the topic, I think there are some rules of thumb that more or less hold for credible and eventually verified Marian apparitions:

• The witnesses’ lives are changed forever, that is, they usually don’t go on living as they would have,
• The local Ordinary requests proof and evidence and is eventually given it,
• The Virgin requests that something be made, such as a shrine, a cathedral, a medal (Our Lady of the Miraculous Medal), etc…
• Other miracles are associated with it, such as healing (Our Lady of Lourdes, Our Lady of Banneux), the various ones associated with Our Lady of Guadalupe,…

I think this provides an approximately systematic way (though of course, variations may exist) to analyze the veracity of any Marian apparition.

 

[Sirach2]

To continue with the topic, I think there are some rules of thumb that more or less hold for credible and eventually verified Marian apparitions:

• Other miracles are associated with it, such as healing (Our Lady of Lourdes, Our Lady of Banneux), the various ones associated with Our Lady of Guadalupe,…

I think this provides an approximately systematic way (though of course, variations may exist) to analyze the veracity of any Marian apparition.

I just realized that I forgot to mention that Our Lady of Guadalupe is also on the Church’s liturgical calendar, December 12th. How could I not remember this beautiful feast day? There was a magnitude of conversions with the people after Our Lady’s appearance. The miraculous image on St. Juan’s tilma has defied human explanations, and the story behind it is so wonderful to examine the details.

If there would be any devotion that I might be attracted to, it would be this one.

 

[Micosil]

I just realized that I forgot to mention that Our Lady of Guadalupe is also on the Church’s liturgical calendar, December 12th. How could I not remember this beautiful feast day? There was a magnitude of conversions with the people after Our Lady’s appearance. The miraculous image on St. Juan’s tilma has defied human explanations, and the story behind it is so wonderful to examine the details.

If there would be any devotion that I might be attracted to, it would be this one.

Yes, indeed, Our Lady of Guadalupe is an amazing devotion, I’m still stunned by how rapidly Mexico converted after the apparition. Fr. Robert Barron explains it well in his Catholicism series, which I’ve had the privilege of obtaining.

 

[ProdigalSun]

There are numerous apparitions that are claimed to be ‘true’ but are highly suspect and are NOT approved of by the Catholic Church. Chief among these, in my mind, is Medjugore.

Although Medjugorje has “NOT” been approved it has like wise “Not” been forbidden. In fact the Vatican under the request of BXIV removed this decision from the prevue of Bishop. Given to the fact that it is apparently still ongoing I’m sure nothing will approved or disapproved until the apparent phenomenom stops.

Part of the approval process certainly has to do with studing its fruits! which apparently there are many.

Peace:thumbsup:

 

[Fairwinds]

I don’t believe or disbelieve. I accept that the Church has validated private revelations.

I understand that there are quite a few wheelchairs or crutches left as a result of apparent cures associated with the shrine of Lourdes. I’d be really convinced if there were pacemakers left behind.

 

[EIF5A]

It seems that in many apparitions, Mary allegedly tells the faithful to say a certain prayer to her, or observe a certain practice in devotion to her, such that grace may be obtained from/through her.

I believe Mary is a humble servant of God and she’s not asking that people offer to her (e.g., direct supplication) what belongs to God alone, which is what it appears to me at first. It appears to go beyond just asking for intercession.

So what is the larger context? Does God grant her grace such that she then dispenses the grace to those who ask her?

Basically, why ask Mary and not God? Unless God grants to Mary first…?

 

[josie_L]

Yes, I don’t believe in all Marian apparitions. I heard the one at Medjugorje was the devil in disguise. Then again, I shouldn’t believe everything I read on the internet either.

But the Medjugorge “apparitions” have not been validated by the Church

 

[JMJ_coder]

Although Medjugorje has “NOT” been approved it has like wise “Not” been forbidden. In fact the Vatican under the request of BXIV removed this decision from the prevue of Bishop. Given to the fact that it is apparently still ongoing I’m sure nothing will approved or disapproved until the apparent phenomenom stops.

Part of the approval process certainly has to do with studing its fruits! which apparently there are many.

Peace:thumbsup:

You shall know the tree by its fruits. And I’ve seen bad fruit coming from Medjugorje.

 

[LegoGE1947]

You shall know the tree by its fruits. And I’ve seen bad fruit coming from Medjugorje.

When people saw water stains on Chicago Expressway overpasses that resembled Mary I don’t exactly believe those as real appearances of the Blessed Virgin.

 

[JMJ_coder]

When people saw water stains on Chicago Expressway overpasses that resembled Mary I don’t exactly believe those as real appearances of the Blessed Virgin.

Or in a toasted cheese sandwich.

 

[LegoGE1947]

Or in a toasted cheese sandwich.

If I had a toasted cheese sandwich I’d eat it rather than pray to it!

 

[jlhargus]

I’ve read that some Catholics do not accept some Marian apparitions. (Although I’m confused as to how some do not if the Church has validated them…)

Anyways, are they considered “rebellious” Catholics?

I know it falls under private revelation category (I think…), but if one does not accept them, how does that fit with being obedient to Church teachings?

Just curious because (for some inexplicable reason that I did not foresee) I’m actually considering joining the Catholic Church at some point, and I’d like to be aware of the various viewpoints on this subject.

I came into the Church led by Our Lady of Fatima. I do take serious notice of those that have been approved. However I am not obliged to follow any of them. I just heard of Our Lady of America, which is supposed to be approved. ourladyofamerica.org/

 

[EIF5A]

I came into the Church led by Our Lady of Fatima. I do take serious notice of those that have been approved. However I am not obliged to follow any of them. I just heard of Our Lady of America, which is supposed to be approved. ourladyofamerica.org/

That’s the thing. If it is true, then we would miss out by not believing even if it’s not required…

Not sure how to properly deal with doubt or having a clear conscience about this matter…

 

[Sirach2]

That’s the thing. If it is true, then we would miss out by not believing even if it’s not required…

Not sure how to properly deal with doubt or having a clear conscience about this matter…

You do not have to “miss out” on anything whatsoever, nor do you have to believe in these, since they are not essential for our salvation as we practice our faith.

PLEASE NOTE:
This particular apparation (Our Lady of America) is NOT formally approved. The only recognized approval must come from a bishop of the diocese, not a monsignor.

Sister Mary Ephrem was blessed to have as her spiritual director Monsignor Leibold for many years until his death in 1972. During this period, Monsignor Leibold authorized the printing of Our Lady’s messages to Sister Mary Ephrem in the form of a diary.

All that was authorized was for this Sister to print the messages in a Diary. It is not a formal approval.

 

[CaptFun]

http://www.wearysloth.com/Gallery/ActorsJ/8948-13201.jpg

As a kid I used to not believe in Marian the Librarian.

Then the “Music Man” began appearing in a “theatre near me” !

I am still skeptical of the Marian apparitions on tortlillas.

I believe in her appearance at Guadaloupe though.

A burnt tortilla image? Could be no more than – Joan of Arc. Tops!

And THEN why not on a crepe ?! … answer me THAT! :bigyikes:

Loopiness aside, the major Marian apparitions I believe in. Lourdes, Fatima, the one near Green Bay. I do attend to some of the others, and while they are not appearances … the Marian interlocutions to the Late Fr. Steffano Gobbi I thought gave profound teaching that helped me understand scripture better.

In the apparitions I believe in fully, Our Lady is so loving and solicitous to those being appeared to - and guides us so certainly towards her Son, and away from sin.

The unexplainable “artwork?” on the tilma at Guadaloupe, the healings at Lourdes, and the true prophecies and miracle of the Sun at Fatima are a great boost to my faith. Not that I didn’t believe in the first place … but …

 

[Miriam1947]

You shall know the tree by its fruits. And I’ve seen bad fruit coming from Medjugorje.

I don’t even like having books about Medjugorje in my store.

 

[CaptFun]

When people saw water stains on Chicago Expressway overpasses that resembled Mary I don’t exactly believe those as real appearances of the Blessed Virgin.

Just some Angels havin’ a water fight. The image is no accident though. Makes ya think of her. And if her … then soon HIM. An overpass leads one to think of the passover … and
it’s a warning from heaven to keep your eyes on the road or the angel of death may gather another motorist off to its judgement!

No self-respecting female saint appears as a water stain for heaven’s sake.
Much less Our Blessed Mother. Even so … there was that … Blackhawks comeback!

 

[Sirach2]

This website publishes approved and unapproved apparitions. You will find page after page of unapproved or “no decision” apparitions, which should tell you that hundreds of people claim to have supernatural appearances of Mary, but hardly any are approved.

“Vatican approved” apparitions have only a small number listed, and you’ll find this message on that page:

Please note: As established in the Council of Trent (1545-63), the local bishop is the first and main authority in the judgement of the authenticity of apparition claims. Vatican approval is not required for an apparition to be considered authentic. After an episcopal approval, the Vatican may officially release a statement or give less explicit forms of approval such as a papal visit or crowning of the associated icon, a papal gift such as a golden rose, the approval of the construction of a basilica, the establishment of a feast day, or the canonization of the associated visionary.

Positive judgments by the local bishop (but not yet by the Vatican) theoretically are able to be reversed by a subsequent bishop - but this has never happened in the history of the Church. Negative judgements (Non constat de supernaturalitate) and rulings of no evidence of supernaturality (Constat de non supernaturalitate) have later been changed to positive judgments on a few rare occasions with the ruling of a subsequent bishop.

**If a Marian apparition is recognized by the bishop, it means that the message is not contrary to faith and morals and that Mary can be venerated in a special way at the site. But, because belief in a private revelation is not required by the church, Catholics are at liberty to decide how much personal spiritual emphasis to place on apparitions and the messages they deliver.
**