Do any other non-catholics not care about Martin Luther?

[BrianH]

Just a question for other non-Catholics on the board(Lutherans excluded for obvious reasons).
Do you even care about Martin Luther?
If it had not been him, does anyone really think we still would not have had a reformation? In this age of technology and divergent views springing up with all religious faiths?
Just curious.
BrianH

 

[Contarini]

There would have been some sort of “Reformation” but it might have looked quite different. I don’t think there’s any way of knowing exactly how. But Luther was a very unusual person and I think he had a unique impact on history.

Edwin

 

[a_cermak]

I’m Episcopalian and Luther had virtually no impact there. We still have all seven sacraments, we still have the Real Presence, we still have saints and we still are not Sola Scriptura.

Also, Luther had no impact on the Eastern Orthodox or on the Churches that split over the Council of Chalcedon.

Pax,
Amy

 

[Contarini]

a_cermak:

I’m Episcopalian and Luther had virtually no impact there. We still have all seven sacraments, we still have the Real Presence, we still have saints and we still are not Sola Scriptura.

I’m Episcopalian too, and you’re kidding yourself (actually you’ve bought a load of Anglo-Catholic propaganda). The 39 Articles say very clearly that only baptism and the Eucharist are sacraments in the strict sense; that transubstantiation is false and that Christ is received in the Eucharist only “after a heavenly and spiritual manner”; that saints should not be “invoked” and that their images and relics should not be venerated; and that all necessary doctrine can be proved from Scripture (a minimalist doctrine of SS, granted, but a doctrine of SS nonetheless). Insofar as the traditional Anglican doctrine on these points differs from Luther’s (as with regard to the Eucharist, for instance), it differs in being *more *“Protestant.” 16th-century Anglicanism was on the conservative end of the Reformed tradition. By the early 17th century high-church Anglicans were situating themselves between Lutherans and Reformed. A little later in the century the idea of a “via media” between Protestantism and Catholicism first shows its head.

It’s true that much of Anglicanism disregards the Articles and has reinstated many aspects of Catholicism rejected by them (and I generally think that’s a good thing). But that’s not because Luther & co. didn’t have an impact. It’s because many Anglicans have done a lot of hard work to reverse that impact.

Edwin

Also, Luther had no impact on the Eastern Orthodox or on the Churches that split over the Council of Chalcedon.

Pax,
Amy

 

[a_cermak]

Interesting. Well my parish is definitely in the Anglo-Catholic mold. We have a Marian statue in the Church (Our Lady of Walsingham), Reconciliation is by appointment, annointing of the sick is available, Deuterocanonical books are accepted as inspired, and the mass looks suspiciously like the one in Catholicism and the creed is identical.

Of course, my parish has a number of former Catholic members (including our deacon) so that may explain its character.

 

[a_cermak]

Oh and my ECUSA parish believes in consubstantiation–that the bread and wine become Body and Blood and remain bread and wine at the same time.

Pax,
Amy

 

[Contarini]

Amy,

Sorry for the brusque tone. It was un-called-for. There are plenty of Episcopal parishes like yours. My parish in North Carolina, where I was confirmed (I grew up non-denominational) was very Anglo-Catholic. Being a student of church history, I challenged the rector (while I was in the “Journey in Faith” program preparing for confirmation) about the Articles’ rejection of transubstantiation, and he said that IV Lateran trumped the Articles because it was a Council of the whole Western Church. He generally took the “Christ is present and we don’t know how” approach, but I don’t think he would have been comfortable opting for consubstantiation over against transubstantiation–basically I think his view was not much different from that of the Orthodox. We had Benediction occasionally, besides the full Maundy Thursday liturgy.

The church I now attend in NJ is much less Anglo-Catholic, and I miss my parish in NC very much. I have very mixed feelings about Anglo-Catholics. I think they are right on a lot of points, and I love Anglo-Catholic liturgy, but I could never buy the Anglo-Catholic view of history, and hence I was never an Anglo-Catholic ecclesiologically. I think it’s fine for us to reject those aspects of the Reformation we think were wrong, but too often this goes along with a denial of our historically Protestant roots. Anglo-Catholics often caricature Protestantism and then use this caricature to argue that Anglicans have never been Protestants. I don’t think that the Reformation as a whole was a complete break with the past, and so I don’t think that the Anglican refusal to break with the past entirely was something totally unique and different from the Continental Reformation.

In Christ,

Edwin