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GKC
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Or, as I once said to Contarini, different does not necessarily mean unequal.
I do miss Contarini.
GKC
Do any Protestant communities have valid Apostolic Succession?
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I do miss Contarini.
GKC
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benjohnson
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I won’t belong to Synod or church with female priests not because they are “bad”, but because it’s an indication that the church is starting the think that it knows better than God. It’s an indication that the church thinks it has a ‘new idea’ that is bigger than the Gospel.
Let me go out on a limb here: I’ve met some astounding good female Lutheran pastors. So they as individuals don’t bother me:
But the spirit of ‘change’ behind the drive for female ordination will not be content with a few changes here or there - its goal is the complete substitution of radical man-made ideas for the true radical God-given Gospel.
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aidanbradypop
Guest
I agree! I am sure there are women that would make wonderful priestess. Mother Angelica, Mother Theresa…etc…but that does not change the fact. If God wanted a female priesthood He would have said so. An ELCA friend of mine is anti Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament. Why? Because it is not found in Scripture, yet he is very open to the female priesthood…WHICH IS NOT FOUND IN SCRIPTURE
How can one claim Apostolic Succession and go against what the Apostles taught? Blows my mind right out of the water.
Had Mother Theresa been a priest, the world would have been denied her saintly, Spirit-led example of the godly life.I agree! I am sure there are women that would make wonderful priestess. Mother Angelica, Mother Theresa…etc…but that does not change the fact. If God wanted a female priesthood He would have said so. An ELCA friend of mine is anti Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament. Why? Because it is not found in Scripture, yet he is very open to the female priesthood…WHICH IS NOT FOUND IN SCRIPTURE
How can one claim Apostolic Succession and go against what the Apostles taught? Blows my mind right out of the water.
While not surrendering the Lutheran position that the sacrament’s purpose is in His words, that we eat and drink, I think a better case for adoration can be made than female clergy.
Jon
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Nicea325
Guest
Exactly! I also would also add that many folks feel somehow Christianity is obligated due to women having their rights to be priests? However, it has nothing to do with their rights,because God calls men to the priesthood never women.
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Nicea325
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Of course! They only push for those agendas/views which are in direct conflict with the church.I agree! I am sure there are women that would make wonderful priestess. Mother Angelica, Mother Theresa…etc…but that does not change the fact. If God wanted a female priesthood He would have said so. An ELCA friend of mine is anti Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament. Why? Because it is not found in Scripture, yet he is very open to the female priesthood…WHICH IS NOT FOUND IN SCRIPTURE
How can one claim Apostolic Succession and go against what the Apostles taught? Blows my mind right out of the water.
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pablope
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How can conjugations be lost? There will be a truncated English language…
Kidding you, Bro…i think you meant congregations…
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benjohnson
Guest
Kidding you, Bro…i think you meant congregations…
Hopefully I got the punctuation correct 
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
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Jotto
Guest
I think we are on topic, Aidanbradypop. As the question of whether or not the form of succession practiced by Anglicans and by Lutherans is valid cannot be separated from the question of ordaining women. And related to this question is the question of whether a pronouncement of the Roman Catholic Church’s Magisterium can be said to be a teaching of the Church if in fact that teaching is no longer “received” by the whole Church, i.e., lacks confirmation by the sensus fidelium?If women were ever ordained, the Church would be going against Christ and no longer guided by the Holy Spirit. I would question everything the Church does after that. Gladly!!!..I will never have to do so.
But let us get back on topic.
There appears to be growing support among practicing Roman Catholics for the position set forth by a majority of the scholars participating in the Papal Biblical Commission (womenpriests.org/classic/appendix.asp) in 1976, namely that "“It does not seem that the New Testament by itself alone will permit us to settle in a clear way and once and for all the problem of the possible accession of women to the presbyterate” Or as a Catholic friend once put it to me, "If women by virtue of their baptism are considered worthy to re-present Christ to the world-at-large, why should they be considered incapable of re-presenting Christ in the gathered community of the Church?
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EvangelCatholic
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Fascinating. I believe some Catholics are doing a disservice by impulsively dismissing the subject of women priests. They may be very surprised by developments to broadened the inclusivity of the priesthood.
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GKC
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Peter_J
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Perhaps, although I think it can be hard not to impulsively dismiss it, when the subject is being pushed as militantly as it is.
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EvangelCatholic
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Lutheran bishops in the Baltic countries have apostolic succession from the very beginning when either St Boniface or Russian Orthodox missionaries brought Christianity.
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Jotto
Guest
The data is readily available. All mainline communions are losing members including the Missouri Synod. Even the Evangelical Mega-Churches are losing members. And as well all know the second largest group of religious types in this country are people who were formerly Roman Catholics. The reasons why. That is a complicated question, but for now I’ll leave it up to the rest of you to speculate what all the reasons are.
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Jotto
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Hmmm. Ever seen a fat bishop?
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Jotto
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Aidanbradypop, another thing you won’t find in the New Testament is the office of priest as we currently understand that office. As Cardinal Newman taught us, doctrines evolve. In the early Church, the natural leaders of a community were set aside by the leaders of other communities by the laying on of hands and prayer. This was understood as a communal action and its meaning was that the apostolicity of a community with a new leader was affirmed by surrounding Christian communities who were represented by their chosen leaders. The current practice and understanding of the Roman Catholic and other communions that an individual is empowered simply by the action of another individual (the bishop) was not part of the Church’s understanding until much later. Furthermore there is evidence that it was not always the individual who was the ordained leader of a community that presided a Eucharistic meals. (There are ancient texts which indicate that an individual recognized as a “prophet” sometimes played that role.)
If the Catholic Church were consistent in observing all that the New Testament says about women in the context of worship, there would be no women lectors. But things have evolved haven’t they. Jesus, it appears chose his closes circle of disciples to represent the twelve tribes of the New Israel he envisioned. His movement was a lay movement with no function for what were called “priests” in his day.
Is it wrong that we have the kind of clerical priesthood that we now do. No, I think not. But what we have now has evolved under the leadership, hopefully of the Holy Spirit. The argument that the practice of setting aside women as the leaders of a community is not found in the New Testament and therefore is not something we should have among us is basically a Fundamentalist argument that ignores the evolving nature of the Church and the Church’s doctrine. Now that we have women leaders in most if not all of our societal institutions, unlike the society in which the Church first functioned, there is no good theological reason for not recognizing them as the de jure as well as the de facto leaders of our congregations as in not a few Catholic congregations today women, in the absence of an appointed pastor, are the de facto if not de jure spiritual leaders of their communities.
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EvangelCatholic
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Here’s a photo of my bishop [Bishop Rimbo of the Metro New York Synod - ELCA] at the installation of a female pastor. What is wrong with this image?
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vsedriver
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women will never be ordained as priestesses in the Catholic Church. That has been infallibly defined by Pope John Paul II.
women are already qualified and worthy to represent Christ within the gathered community. They just can’t be ordained and consecrate the host. The Eucharistic sacrament requires proper matter and form. A woman is not able to represent Christ during the Consecration as she can’t be a bridegroom or a priest. A priestess is not a priest.
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