Do any Protestant communities have valid Apostolic Succession?

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aidanbradypop said:
Nope. In RCIA class in the Diocese it often becomes in issue. They feel they should not have to take them. Etc
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Hmmm, difficult situation. Frankly, it would seem strange to me for someone converting from PNCC to Catholicism to be in RCIA class … but then, I’ve never known anyone in the PNCC to convert to Catholicism (RCIA or otherwise).
 
Peter_J said:
Hmmm, difficult situation. Frankly, it would seem strange to me for someone converting from PNCC to Catholicism to be in RCIA class … but then, I’ve never known anyone in the PNCC to convert to Catholicism (RCIA or otherwise).
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We had two or three this past class.
 
JonNC said:
Indeed.

My sense, looking back at the “Call to Common Mission”, was that the ELCA did the AS part mainly because it was pretty much expected by the Episcopal Church in order to be able to share altar and pulpit. There were those in the clergy that opposed it, but it was the only way to make it happen.
Jon
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This seem more fair than my assessment.

I’ve noticed that there’s a danger in any church of using the beautiful forms from antiquity to mask modern inventions and I seem to project that onto the ELCA more than is probably merited.
 
JonNC said:
Indeed.

My sense, looking back at the “Call to Common Mission”, was that the ELCA did the AS part mainly because it was pretty much expected by the Episcopal Church in order to be able to share altar and pulpit. There were those in the clergy that opposed it, but it was the only way to make it happen.

Jon
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I read an article from Wiki (which isn’t always the best source, but the first source that came up) regarding the “Call to Common Mission” and it makes perfect sense that to make the agreement work the ELCA agreed to the AS part.

Thanks, Jon.
You learn something new every day 🙂
Mary.
 
MaryT777 said:
I read an article from Wiki (which isn’t always the best source, but the first source that came up) regarding the “Call to Common Mission” and it makes perfect sense that to make the agreement work the ELCA agreed to the AS part.

Thanks, Jon.
You learn something new every day 🙂
Mary.
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:tiphat:

Jon
 
JonNC said:
My sense, looking back at the “Call to Common Mission”, was that the ELCA did the AS part mainly because it was pretty much expected by the Episcopal Church** in order to be able to share altar and pulpit**. There were those in the clergy that opposed it, but it was the only way to make it happen.
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Seems to me that doctrinal concessions simply “to share altar and pulpit” should be strongly discouraged… Granted, church polity is adiaphora to Lutherans, but couldn’t the Episcopal Church’s understanding of AS (bishops as an holy order above priests) be at odds with the Lutheran Confessions’ (effectively a blurred/non-distinction between bishops and priests)? Not to demean those who steadfastly looked for common ground and eventual fellowship, but I still do not see why either church body consented to this agreement. 🤷
Another disconcerting suggestion of Called to Common Mission is the implication that it is acceptable for Lutherans and Episcopalians to view the same liturgical experience differently, according to their own traditions. We may call it installation; Episcopalians may call it ordination. Does the bride’s family to interpret the marriage vow in one fashion, and the groom’s family another? Does the bride’s “I do” have a different meaning than the groom’s “I do?” That is theological as well as liturgical dishonesty.
-Dr. Walter C. Huffman’s “Faithful Dissent”
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steido01 said:
Seems to me that doctrinal concessions simply “to share altar and pulpit” should be strongly discouraged… Granted, church polity is adiaphora to Lutherans, but couldn’t the Episcopal Church’s understanding of AS (bishops as an holy order above priests) be at odds with the Lutheran Confessions’ (effectively a blurred/non-distinction between bishops and priests)? Not to demean those who steadfastly looked for common ground and eventual fellowship, but I still do not see why either church body consented to this agreement. 🤷
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The only thing I take issue with here, Don, is I don’t think it violates the confessions to recognize a distinction between bishop and priest. At least I don’t read Melanchthon that way.

Jon
 
MaryT777 said:
I read an article from Wiki (which isn’t always the best source, but the first source that came up) regarding the “Call to Common Mission” and it makes perfect sense that to make the agreement work the ELCA agreed to the AS part.

Thanks, Jon.
You learn something new every day 🙂
Mary.
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So by agreeing to the AS…how was this accomplished or made into effect on the part of ELCA?

Did Elca pastors undergo re-ordination? How did they gain back their AS?
 
pablope said:
So by agreeing to the AS…how was this accomplished or made into effect on the part of ELCA?

Did Elca pastors undergo re-ordination? How did they gain back their AS?
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I don’t remember the procedure. Maybe Pastor Gary can respond to that.
Jon
 
BUT if the Anglicans do not have a valid Apostolic Succession, that would leave the ELCA as invalid as well. 🤷
 
MaryT777 said:
I concur…🙂
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👍

I was raised by a nurse practitioner. The “bird and the bees” conversation was very straight to the point lol. SO when I was in 1st grade and sitting at the lunch table a friend of mine stated that girls get pregnant in the belly buttons. Of course I spoke up and told him that was not the case. He held firm to his belief because his mother told him that was how. It did not matter how much I tried to correct him, the words bounced off.
 
aidanbradypop said:
👍

I was raised by a nurse practitioner. The “bird and the bees” conversation was very straight to the point lol. SO when I was in 1st grade and sitting at the lunch table a friend of mine stated that girls get pregnant in the belly buttons. Of course I spoke up and told him that was not the case. He held firm to his belief because his mother told him that was how. It did not matter how much I tried to correct him, the words bounced off.
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:rotfl:

I know what you mean…
 
JonNC said:
No. From the Lutheran POV. 😃
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As Lutherans so clearly state, they acknowledge the authority of the Church. 😉 Does that authority go away when the Church teaches something that goes against Lutheranism? 2 Corinthians 2:17 comes to mind. 🤷
 
“True knowledge is [that which consists in] the doctrine of the apostles, and the ancient constitution of the Church throughout all the world, and the distinctive manifestation of the body of Christ according to the successions of the bishops, by which they have handed down that Church which exists in every place, and has come even unto us, being guarded and preserved without any forging of Scriptures, by a very complete system of doctrine, and neither receiving addition nor [suffering] curtailment [in the truths which she believes]; and [it consists in] reading [the word of God] without falsification, and a lawful and diligent exposition in harmony with the Scriptures, both without danger and without blasphemy; and [above all, it consists in] the pre-eminent gift of love, which is more precious than knowledge, more glorious than prophecy, and which excels all the other gifts [of God].” Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 4:33:8 (A.D. 180).

👍
 
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