Do Any Protestants Believe In The Eucharistic Miracles?

[grannymh]

Yes, you’re right. It still shocks today for those who’ve never done it and haven’t really understood it. I spent 30 years as a Southern Baptist and having it drilled into my head that the bread and wine (we had grape juice ) was symbolic only, etc. etc.

It is a mystery and one that I believe in. When I receive communion in my Lutheran church I view Jesus as really being there. I know that in the Catholic view that this is seen as not being the case, I still in my mind view it as true.

Peace…

MW

Dear Mystic Warrior,

For some reason, I keep thinking that this phrase is for you. Maybe it is time for you to “step out in faith”.

Blessings,
grannymh

 

[grannymh]

No, it is just I have never heard of it being real until I came here. It makes me feel queasy at the thought of ingesting real flesh and blood.

Now as far as the miracle part goes, God can do whatever he wants, he is God. So I am not saying it cant happen. But still the freaking part is there for me,

True story, when I was a little girl and at a relatives church, I refused to take communion, freaking out on the flesh and blood part, telling them I was not a cannibal. They finally convinced me it was not real, just symbolic,

So you can imagine how shocking it was the first time I read of such a thing.

BTW, I was baptized Catholic as an infant, but that was as far as it went.

Dear Auriel and others who may be queasy …

Finally, I can get back to this topic. Thank you for your patience.

First suggestion is to meditate on John 6: 35. This is key to understanding the Bread of Life Discourse in John 6: 22 -71.
Consider that John 6: 35 points directly to the Institution of the Eucharist in Luke 22: 14-20. This in turns leads to the Sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross.

I can understand what happened at your relative’s church because there are many Catholics who do not understand what actually happens when Jesus becomes truly present in Holy Communion so they try words like symbolic.

I hope this makes sense. If not, please ask questions. There are no dumb questions. The Jews were familiar with the miracle of manna given to their ancestors in the desert. Therefore, Jesus needed to make sure that they didn’t think He was going to turn into bread similar to manna. So Jesus explained about the “true bread” which comes from God and gives life to the world. Of course Jesus is the One Who comes from God. Read John 3: 16&17.

Then, Jesus went on to emphasize that what comes from heaven, which referred to the Divinity of the Son of God, was actually Himself, present in flesh and blood before the crowd.

As we meditate on Jesus giving Himself to us, we look back to John 6: 35 to find out how. The answer of course is “I am the Bread of Life” which is not like that which Jewish ancestors received. It may remind people of manna, but the reality is Jesus, the Second Person of the Trinity.
The “how” He would do ths was made clear at the Last Supper.
Read Luke 22: 14-20

It is important to understand that “reality" is not just what we can measure like “quantums”, quantifiable entities, that are real to our senses. These are the manifestations of the hidden mystery of true being. True being is expressed with the word “substance”. Jesus is not present like a piece of meat. We do not eat flesh, as cannibals would do, because the Divine Jesus Who rose from the dead is now present. It is His power as God that allows the bread to retain its appearances so that we can easily recieive Him.

Today, when we watch the priest lift the Sacred Host, we can believe with certainty that the Person, Who is before us, is the real Jesus Christ. He is truly, substantially present in the Sacred Host. What our eyes see are only the appearances or the signs of bread. What we taste and swallow are the appearances of bread. What we receive is Jesus Christ,Himself.

Blessings,
grannymh

 

[Gatell]

Dear Auriel and others who may be queasy …

Finally, I can get back to this topic. Thank you for your patience.

First suggestion is to meditate on John 6: 35. This is key to understanding the Bread of Life Discourse in John 6: 22 -71.
Consider that John 6: 35 points directly to the Institution of the Eucharist in Luke 22: 14-20. This in turns leads to the Sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross.

I can understand what happened at your relative’s church because there are many Catholics who do not understand what actually happens when Jesus becomes truly present in Holy Communion so they try words like symbolic.

I hope this makes sense. If not, please ask questions. There are no dumb questions. The Jews were familiar with the miracle of manna given to their ancestors in the desert. Therefore, Jesus needed to make sure that they didn’t think He was going to turn into bread similar to manna. So Jesus explained about the “true bread” which comes from God and gives life to the world. Of course Jesus is the One Who comes from God. Read John 3: 16&17.

Then, Jesus went on to emphasize that what comes from heaven, which referred to the Divinity of the Son of God, was actually Himself, present in flesh and blood before the crowd.

As we meditate on Jesus giving Himself to us, we look back to John 6: 35 to find out how. The answer of course is “I am the Bread of Life” which is not like that which Jewish ancestors received. It may remind people of manna, but the reality is Jesus, the Second Person of the Trinity.
The “how” He would do ths was made clear at the Last Supper.
Read Luke 22: 14-20

It is important to understand that “reality" is not just what we can measure like “quantums”, quantifiable entities, that are real to our senses. These are the manifestations of the hidden mystery of true being. True being is expressed with the word “substance”. Jesus is not present like a piece of meat. We do not eat flesh, as cannibals would do, because the Divine Jesus Who rose from the dead is now present. It is His power as God that allows the bread to retain its appearances so that we can easily recieive Him.

Today, when we watch the priest lift the Sacred Host, we can believe with certainty that the Person, Who is before us, is the real Jesus Christ. He is truly, substantially present in the Sacred Host. What our eyes see are only the appearances or the signs of bread. What we taste and swallow are the appearances of bread. What we receive is Jesus Christ,Himself.

Blessings,
grannymh

Hi grannymh:

Beautiful explanation! One thing I would like to tie in, which is of great contention to a lot of my Fundamentalist friends; attempts are always made to use the Scriptures against the real presence and it brings up the point of our faith in general;

We as Catholics believe in the economy of salvation as given to us by The Church. The Church that was born at Pentecost has survived to this day. Her Scriptures, inspired by God and authenticated by Her Sacred Tradition, are there to sustain us like Christ Himself in the Eucharist.

Unfortunately, a lot of Christians spend so much time studying the Scriptures but forget the vehicle that gave it to them.

Ultimately, we believe what we believe by faith, given to us by the Holy Sprit, and on the witness of the Apostles. How beautiful and solid is our faith, historical indeed!

God bless,

and Happy New Year,

Victor

 

[grannymh]

Hi grannymh:

Beautiful explanation! One thing I would like to tie in, which is of great contention to a lot of my Fundamentalist friends; attempts are always made to use the Scriptures against the real presence and it brings up the point of our faith in general;

We as Catholics believe in the economy of salvation as given to us by The Church. The Church that was born at Pentecost has survived to this day. Her Scriptures, inspired by God and authenticated by Her Sacred Tradition, are there to sustain us like Christ Himself in the Eucharist.

Unfortunately, a lot of Christians spend so much time studying the Scriptures but forget the vehicle that gave it to them.

Ultimately, we believe what we believe by faith, given to us by the Holy Sprit, and on the witness of the Apostles. How beautiful and solid is our faith, historical indeed!

God bless,

and Happy New Year,

Victor

 

[grannymh]

Hi grannymh:

Beautiful explanation! One thing I would like to tie in, which is of great contention to a lot of my Fundamentalist friends; attempts are always made to use the Scriptures against the real presence and it brings up the point of our faith in general;

We as Catholics believe in the economy of salvation as given to us by The Church. The Church that was born at Pentecost has survived to this day. Her Scriptures, inspired by God and authenticated by Her Sacred Tradition, are there to sustain us like Christ Himself in the Eucharist.

Unfortunately, a lot of Christians spend so much time studying the Scriptures but forget the vehicle that gave it to them.

Ultimately, we believe what we believe by faith, given to us by the Holy Sprit, and on the witness of the Apostles. How beautiful and solid is our faith, historical indeed!

God bless,

and Happy New Year,

Victor

Dear Victor,

Thank you for the compliment. Let’s work on this explanation together. I’ve used it by deleting the references to Auriel. Also, I’m getting a better understanding of quantum theory via threads so that may need updating.

I like your idea of setting the stage for the explanation by putting it in the context of history, especially Pentecost, and maybe the Hebrew Scriptures. Did I read your post right?

I’m somewhat on your track regarding the attempts to use Scripture against the Real Presence. That is why I used John 3: 16 & 17. Verse 17 was emphasized by a Protestant when both of us were praying with her dying Protestant friend. (I was a volunteer chaplain acting on behalf of the hospital’s pastoral care department. I try to use verse 17 ever since.)

Here’s a thought. For anyone to understand or believe the Eucharistic miracles, one needs to understand the Eucharist.

What do you think about combining our brains and our love for the Eucharist? What are your suggestions?

Blessings,
grannymh

 

[Gatell]

Dear Victor,

Thank you for the compliment. Let’s work on this explanation together. I’ve used it by deleting the references to Auriel. Also, I’m getting a better understanding of quantum theory via threads so that may need updating.

I like your idea of setting the stage for the explanation by putting it in the context of history, especially Pentecost, and maybe the Hebrew Scriptures. Did I read your post right?

I’m somewhat on your track regarding the attempts to use Scripture against the Real Presence. That is why I used John 3: 16 & 17. Verse 17 was emphasized by a Protestant when both of us were praying with her dying Protestant friend. (I was a volunteer chaplain acting on behalf of the hospital’s pastoral care department. I try to use verse 17 ever since.)

Here’s a thought. For anyone to understand or believe the Eucharistic miracles, one needs to understand the Eucharist.

What do you think about combining our brains and our love for the Eucharist? What are your suggestions?

Blessings,
grannymh

Hello grannymh:

Be careful what you wish for, my brain can be complicated at times. LOL.

Ever since the day that a somewhat educated protestant friend told me that the Catholic Church was no more than one of seven churches that existed in the early Christian days, I decided to study the history of our faith.

In my opinion, to fully understand history is to become more Catholic. I like to always use the historical perpective, I am however, no historian. But I have read some books, probably just enough to get me into serious trouble with legitimate scholars.

Perhaps it’s out of the scope of this thread, but I think that our faith has to survive historical accounts, if not, we can easily be shaken and lose faith altogether. Other than the witness of the Apostles, what else is there as a basis for that faith. Of course the Holy Spirit calls us, but anyone can climb a hilltop and claim that God has called him to do this or that.

Is Scripture the basis? You cannot use the Scriptures without their connection to the historical apostles. Is The Church the basis? Perhaps, but without Her apostolic succesion and Sacred Tradition, she could just be a “feel good” place to worship.

As I have come to see it, the basis of our faith is fully grounded in the witness of the Twelve. It gives me great comfort to know that I don’t have to fear history, or documents in caves, etc.

What do you think?

Victor

 

[grannymh]

Dear Victor,

“In my opinion, to fully understand history is to become more Catholic. I like to always use the historical perpective.”

I agree.
Part of my research on Eucharistic miracles has taken into account the history of the event. In other words, what was going on at the time the miracle took place. However, since we would like to talk about the Eucharist itself, let’s move to another thread called “Can the Eucharist be understood through means other than scripture dueling?” in Apologetics about page 11.
I started this thread.
See you there???

Blessings,
grannymh

 

[xyneshia]

I’m Catholic but even back when i was a Protester i beleived in Eucharistic Miracles.

 

[Auriel]

Actually, using Quantum Physics as a Eucharistic Miracle teaching tool works for someone like me. I understand Physics. Using bible verses that others use and Interpret or view differently does not have the same impact. A non Catholic does not think with a catholic mind.

Though I can see another point. The rules of science constantly change and cannot really measure spiritual things.

But I liked your analogy.

 

[grannymh]

Actually, using Quantum Physics as a Eucharistic Miracle teaching tool works for someone like me. I understand Physics. Using bible verses that others use and Interpret or view differently does not have the same impact. A non Catholic does not think with a catholic mind.
Though I can see another point. The rules of science constantly change and cannot really measure spiritual things.
But I liked your analogy.

Thank you Auriel,

You brought up a very good point – A non Catholic does not think with a catholic mind. I could add that there are a lot of Catholics that are involved with science or who think along scientific or mathematical lines. Thus, your view is valuable as a teaching tool.

Would you critique the Quantum Physics in the analogy (below) for me? Just to make sure I said it right. Maybe expand it. Maybe include a sentence saying something like – as we currently know or understand at this point. In other words, so it is written so you and others in physics could relate to it.

I think that understanding that a “miracle” or an extraordinary phenomenon can happen helps people to realize that we are not just material things. There is a wonderful spiritual (not necessarily connected with a formal religion) side to us. It is our spiritual side which sees and understands beauty and love. It is our spirituality that recognizes the value of human life, etc. Eventually, our spiritual side can seek the creator of beauty and know the love of the creator. But that is another story.

Your comment regarding bible verses viewed differently is what prompted me to start the thread in apologetics titled “Can the Eucharist be understood through means other than scripture dueling?”

Here is the analogy, I originally used in this thread:

It is important to understand that “reality" is not just what we can measure like “quantums”, quantifiable entities, that are real to our senses. These are the manifestations of the hidden mystery of true being. True being is expressed with the word “substance”. Jesus is not present like a piece of meat. We do not eat flesh, as cannibals would do, because the Divine Jesus Who rose from the dead is now present. It is His power as God that allows the bread to retain its appearances so that we can easily receive Him.

Blessings,
grannymh

 

[Gatell]

Actually, using Quantum Physics as a Eucharistic Miracle teaching tool works for someone like me. I understand Physics. Using bible verses that others use and Interpret or view differently does not have the same impact. A non Catholic does not think with a catholic mind.

Though I can see another point. The rules of science constantly change and cannot really measure spiritual things.

But I liked your analogy.

Hello Auriel:

Happy New Year!!

Perhaps science has not attempted to measure spiritual things, instead, it’s left to the weird science, television spookie shows.

God Bless,

Victor

 

[grannymh]

Hello Auriel:

Happy New Year!!

Perhaps science has not attempted to measure spiritual things, instead, it’s left to the weird science, television spookie shows.

God Bless,

Victor

Happy New Year to all.

As far as the Eucharistic miracles, scientific minds have tried to figure out a couple of them. When that can’t be done satisfactorily, they call the “miracle” an extraordinary phenomenon.

Blessings,
grannymh

 

[Gatell]

Happy New Year to all.

As far as the Eucharistic miracles, scientific minds have tried to figure out a couple of them. When that can’t be done satisfactorily, they call the “miracle” an extraordinary phenomenon.

Blessings,
grannymh

HI Grannymh:

“extraordinary phenomenom”, sounds like their explanation for the depth of space, don’t forget, those scientific minds call that stuff “Dark Matter”. Go figure, you have to go to school all those years for that.

Victor