Do any protestants have a penitential rite in their worship services

[stinkcat_14]

One thing that I always thought was missing from our worship services when I was a Baptist was that we never started worship with anything resembling a penitential rite.

I always thought that was a critical missing component of worship because how better to begin worship than to acknowlege our sinfulness and ask God’s forgiveness. Do any noncatholics start worship this way?

If not, why not?

For those of you who don’t know what the penitential rite is:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penitential_Rite

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

One thing that I always thought was missing from our worship services when I was a Baptist was that we never started worship with anything resembling a penitential rite.

I always thought that was a critical missing component of worship because how better to begin worship than to acknowlege our sinfulness and ask God’s forgiveness. Do any noncatholics start worship this way?

If not, why not?

For those of you who don’t know what the penitential rite is:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penitential_Rite

Certainly -​

• The Church of England has always had one
• Likewise the Church of Scotland
  So that takes care of Anglicans & Presbyterians.

 

[JonNC]

One thing that I always thought was missing from our worship services when I was a Baptist was that we never started worship with anything resembling a penitential rite.

I always thought that was a critical missing component of worship because how better to begin worship than to acknowlege our sinfulness and ask God’s forgiveness. Do any noncatholics start worship this way?

If not, why not?

For those of you who don’t know what the penitential rite is:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penitential_Rite

Most Lutheran services, following the Invocation, have one or another form of confession and absolution. While, sadly, private confession has fallen into disuse (it is still available), public confession is strongly encouraged, particularly before receiving communion.

Jon

 

[wanner47]

The Lutheran Church (ELCA) does. It’s called the “Brief Order of Confession and Forgiveness.” (The following is all from memory, so my apologies if I screw anything up.)

The pastor says, “If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. But if we confess our sins, God who is faithful and just will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” pause “Most merciful God…”

The congregation joins in: “We confess that we are in bondage to sin and cannot free ourselves. We have sinned against You in thought, word, and deed, by what we have done and by what we have left undone. We have not loved You with our whole heart. We have not loved our neighbors as ourselves. For the sake of your son, have mercy on us. Forgive us, renew us and lead us, so that we may delight in your will and walk in your ways, to the glory of your holy name. Amen.”

Looking back, I see that this is just fine for venial sins, but now (as a Catholic) it seems odd to me that the above is meant to be sufficient for sins such as murder, adultery, etc.

 

[Syele]

From the Episcopalian Book of Common Prayer:

Let us confess our sins against God and our neighbor. Most merciful God, we confess that we have sinned against you in thought, word, and deed, by what we have done, and by what we have left undone. We have not loved you with our whole heart; we have not loved our neighbors as ourselves. We are truly sorry and we humbly repent. For the sake of your Son Jesus Christ, have mercy on us and forgive us; that we may delight in your will, and walk in your ways, to the glory of your Name. Amen. Almighty God have mercy on us, forgive us all our sins through our Lord Jesus Christ, strengthen us in all goodness, and by the power of the Holy Spirit keep us in eternal life. Amen. http://www.missionstclare.com/graphics/esend2.gif

 

[Miserissima]

Well, Catholics have 3 choices for the Penetential Rite in Mass (as you prolly know from your good Wiki linking) but my favorite has always been “Option A.”

Let me speak from my experience when I was a non-C:

I had always equated the “altar call” was the penitential rite in less “formal” Protestant churches, and the sinners prayer will usually have you say you’re sorry to the Lord:

The “Sinner’s Prayer” is a term that describes the words spoken by a person when he or she has recognized their sin and their need for a relationship with God through Jesus Christ. It goes something like this:

“Father, I know that I have broken your laws and my sins have separated me from you. I am truly sorry, and now I want to turn away from my past sinful life toward you. Please forgive me, and help me avoid sinning again. I believe that your son, Jesus Christ died for my sins, was resurrected from the dead, is alive, and hears my prayer. I invite Jesus to become the Lord of my life, to rule and reign in my heart from this day forward. Please send your Holy Spirit to help me obey You, and to do Your will for the rest of my life. In Jesus’ name I pray, Amen.” (From here)

I’ve seen it done very dramatically (even at a funeral once), but I have never seen a whole congregation recite the prayer, so I guess it’s very personal – and might take a bit of courage – to go up to the pulpit/altar/stage and do this. To go up that way, personally makes me think the person who is going up is either a) very humble or b) grandstanding.

Actually, I kept going to altar calls because I was literally missing the actual Sacrament of Confession. (Go figure, huh?) I felt like I needed to be forgiven again and again and keep dedicating my life over and over because I had “backslidden.”

Before I left and after I came home to the Church, I always felt very humbled during our Confetior that we say, “…and I confess to Almighty God, and to you, my brothers and sisters…” and this line: “I ask you, my brothers and sisters, to pray for me to the Lord our God.”

It’s communal. We’re apologizing to God, and to each other. And we’re doing it together! It’s the most public type of “confession” I know, acknowledging our unworthiness just before the Eucharist. Man, I love that “Option A.” Feels better to me than any altar call I’ve done in my past.

 

[stinkcat_14]

Well, Catholics have 3 choices for the Penetential Rite in Mass (as you prolly know from your good Wiki linking) but my favorite has always been “Option A.”

I always liked option A the best as well. It can be very humbling to admit out loud that “I have sinned through my own fault”.

Let me speak from my experience when I was a non-C:

I had always equated the “altar call” was the penitential rite in less “formal” Protestant churches, and the sinners prayer will usually have you say you’re sorry to the Lord:

The sinners prayer does have a penitential character to it, but theoretically the sinners prayer is supposed to be said once and then you are saved. Although I must admit, I prayed the sinners prayer several times when I was a Baptist.

I’ve seen it done very dramatically (even at a funeral once), but I have never seen a whole congregation recite the prayer,

It seems that the liturgically oriented protestant denominations are more likely to have a penitential prayer to begin their services. I am disappointed that none of the non-liturgical protestants have come on this thread and said why they don’t begin their services with such a prayer. It seems like such a perfect way to start worship. Is it just something they never thought about, or is there some reason why it is missing. I have always been curious about that question.

Before I left and after I came home to the Church, I always felt very humbled during our Confetior that we say, “…and I confess to Almighty God, and to you, my brothers and sisters…” and this line: “I ask you, my brothers and sisters, to pray for me to the Lord our God.”

It’s communal. We’re apologizing to God, and to each other. And we’re doing it together! It’s the most public type of “confession” I know, acknowledging our unworthiness just before the Eucharist. Man, I love that “Option A.” Feels better to me than any altar call I’ve done in my past

Even when I was a Baptist, I always thought that there was no better way to begin worship, that by acknowleging my sinfulness. Although it is usually not pretty, because some pretty nasty sins can come to mind.

 

[Miserissima]

It seems that the liturgically oriented protestant denominations are more likely to have a penitential prayer to begin their services. I am disappointed that none of the non-liturgical protestants have come on this thread and said why they don’t begin their services with such a prayer. It seems like such a perfect way to start worship. Is it just something they never thought about, or is there some reason why it is missing. I have always been curious about that question.

Well, there was a book by Wayne Weible (about an alleged apparition which shall not be named) in which he mentions how much like the Catholic Mass that his Lutheran service resembled – and one of the parts was a public confession of faults. But coming from me after just reading a book, I can’t answer because I’ve not attended a Lutheran service.

Oh, but wait, that’s a liturgical church. Sorry to miss that part of your question.

 

[Steadfast]

In most Lutheran services (indeed, most Lutherans believe it to be a necessary part of the Liturgy) the Pastor will, after a brief moment of reflection on the part of the congregation and the public confession of sin and sinfulness, say “At this your confession I, as a called and ordained servant of the word, forgive you all your sins in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Amen.”

There are variations where he will say that he is announcing to you the forgiveness of sins but this is, I believe, the usual formula.

Lutherans also believe that when the Pastor says this he is exercising the office of the keys and that their sins are actually forgiven.

What we have a problem with in Catholic confession is the idea that the sinner, having confessed his sins, has some necessity to make satisfaction to God for the sins. We believe that at the cross Jesus has entirely satisfied God with regard to our sin.

This does not mean that we believe that restitution doesn’t need to be made in cases where the sin in question involved some “horizontal” injury; i.e. theft, murder, etc. In these cases a civil penalty or return must be made but as far as God is concerned, Jesus paid it all.

 

[Miserissima]

Stinkcat, I too am surprised that there hasn’t been more response from non-liturgical religions. Perhaps it’s the nomenclature of the thread? Many non-C’s consider their worship services as their liturgies, so how about a general call for specific denominations, such as “Fundamentalist,” etc.

Just a thought.

 

[Steadfast]

It probably depends on how non-liturgical non-liturgical is.

Presbyterians have a general confession of sins and an announcement of forgiveness.

Baptists and Pentecostals have altar calls…

Maybe I am not sure what’s being asked.

 

[stinkcat_14]

It probably depends on how non-liturgical non-liturgical is.

Presbyterians have a general confession of sins and an announcement of forgiveness.

Baptists and Pentecostals have altar calls…

Maybe I am not sure what’s being asked.

I am more familiar with Baptists and non-denom type christians. While Baptists may have altar calls, it differs significantly in my opinion from the penitential rites that you see in the more liturgical denominations. First of all, the altar call usually occur towards the end of the service. Second, the altar call is generally aimed at the “un-saved”, it is not usually used as a general confession of sins.

My main question is for those denominations that don’t do this, why not:

Is it because there is some reason that it shouldn’t be done?

Is it because they never thought of it?

I am just curious as to why, what I think is a crucial part of worship is missing from the worship services of some denominations.

 

[Steadfast]

My main question is for those denominations that don’t do this, why not:

In most cases I think there is a sort of institutional allergy to what is perceived to be an excess of formula.

Is it because there is some reason that it shouldn’t be done?

Those who don’t probably don’t really think too much about it but if pressed would say that they think too much formula in worship takes the heart out of it.

Is it because they never thought of it?

Oddly enough even in most “non-liturgical” churches, there is regular resource to set formula. Every pastor has certain idiosyncrasies that he will revert to; certain regular modes of expression, etc.

And again, in the case of the altar call, more often than not the “sinners prayer” is typed out on a card with the suggestion that the penitent say this prayer or use words like it.

I am just curious as to why, what I think is a crucial part of worship is missing from the worship services of some denominations.

Why do you think it is a crucial part of worship?

 

[Miserissima]

I am just curious as to why, what I think is a crucial part of worship is missing from the worship services of some denominations.

I think that it’s because of the notion of having a “personal relationship with Jesus” and confessing to Him directly that would preclude a public penetential rite. Maybe?

 

[stinkcat_14]

Why do you think it is a crucial part of worship?

Thank you for your answers.

I think it is crucial because I cannot think of a better way to start out a worship service than by actually taking a moment to examine my conscience and remember why I need the forgiveness of God. To begin worship by admitting that “I have sinned through my own fault”, puts me in the proper perspective relative to God, that I am a sinner needing his mercy and forgiveness. In addition, because we are asked to call to mind our particular sins, it helps me on the path to holiness because I have particular sins that I need to overcome.

 

[stinkcat_14]

I think that it’s because of the notion of having a “personal relationship with Jesus” and confessing to Him directly that would preclude a public penetential rite. Maybe?

It could be an explanation. Although, when I was a Baptist I never heard anyone talk about anything regarding an examination of conscience to identify areas of sinfulness. It was mostly the idea that if God put a sin in your consious, you should confess it to Him, but not that we need to be actively looking for the sins in our lives.

Then again, my experience may be atypical, which is one reason I posted this question.

 

[Steadfast]

Thank you for your answers.

I think it is crucial because I cannot think of a better way to start out a worship service than by actually taking a moment to examine my conscience and remember why I need the forgiveness of God. To begin worship by admitting that “I have sinned through my own fault”, puts me in the proper perspective relative to God, that I am a sinner needing his mercy and forgiveness. In addition, because we are asked to call to mind our particular sins, it helps me on the path to holiness because I have particular sins that I need to overcome.

1. This is an excellent answer and I agree completely, but
2. It does not necessarily follow that Christians who, for whatever reason, do not use the practice as we prefer it are somehow deficient in their penitence or preparation for the service of Word and Sacrament.

I know you didn’t say the latter and I don’t mean to put words in your mouth (or in your fingers, astcmb) but it’s a conclusion some might be tempted to draw.

 

[stinkcat_14]

1. This is an excellent answer and I agree completely, but
2. It does not necessarily follow that Christians who, for whatever reason, do not use the practice as we prefer it are somehow deficient in their penitence or preparation for the service of Word and Sacrament.

I know you didn’t say the latter and I don’t mean to put words in your mouth (or in your fingers, astcmb) but it’s a conclusion some might be tempted to draw.

I agree completely with your point number 2.

 

[JonNC]

The Lutheran Church (ELCA) does. It’s called the “Brief Order of Confession and Forgiveness.” (The following is all from memory, so my apologies if I screw anything up.)

The pastor says, “If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. But if we confess our sins, God who is faithful and just will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” pause “Most merciful God…”

The congregation joins in: “We confess that we are in bondage to sin and cannot free ourselves. We have sinned against You in thought, word, and deed, by what we have done and by what we have left undone. We have not loved You with our whole heart. We have not loved our neighbors as ourselves. For the sake of your son, have mercy on us. Forgive us, renew us and lead us, so that we may delight in your will and walk in your ways, to the glory of your holy name. Amen.”

Looking back, I see that this is just fine for venial sins, but now (as a Catholic) it seems odd to me that the above is meant to be sufficient for sins such as murder, adultery, etc.

Good memory!
LCMS uses the same, but inserts after “neighbors as ourselves” the following; “We justly deserve your temporal and eternal punishment.”
As for venial and mortal sins, Lutherans make no distinction, however private confession is available, though enumeration of sins is not required.

Jon

 

[Syele]

Well, Catholics have 3 choices for the Penetential Rite in Mass (as you prolly know from your good Wiki linking) but my favorite has always been “Option A.”

Let me speak from my experience when I was a non-C:

I had always equated the “altar call” was the penitential rite in less “formal” Protestant churches, and the sinners prayer will usually have you say you’re sorry to the Lord:

I’ve seen it done very dramatically (even at a funeral once), but I have never seen a whole congregation recite the prayer, so I guess it’s very personal – and might take a bit of courage – to go up to the pulpit/altar/stage and do this. To go up that way, personally makes me think the person who is going up is either a) very humble or b) grandstanding.

My pastor at the Assembly of God always does it communally.