Do atheists know

[Neithan]

…that we worship Logic?
John 1:1:

1 Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ λόγος, καὶ ὁ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν, καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος.

The Catholic is the ultimate philosopher, because he literally worships Wisdom.

Many atheists today (as they did in the time of Jesus) ask: “Why should we worship your god? What about all these other gods?” Well, the answer (which the ancient Fathers gave) is simple: because our God is Logic. The Logos. The Eternal Word.

I like and respect philosophical atheists a great deal, I can understand the doubt. I’m glad they’re here on these forums and I hope they continue to dialogue with us. If a man loves and seeks the Truth, how could he not be saved?

 

[_Locke]

…that we worship Logic?
The Catholic is the ultimate philosopher, because he literally worships Wisdom.

Many atheists today (as they did in the time of Jesus) ask: “Why should we worship your god? What about all these other gods?” Well, the answer (which the ancient Fathers gave) is simple: because our God is Logic. The Logos. The Eternal Word.

I’m completely lost. What does it mean to “worship Logic”, “worship Wisdom”, or to say that “God is Logic”? Also, how is John 1:1 relevant to the rest of the post?

 

[stephe1987]

Most atheists don’t know much about philosophy or they wouldn’t be atheists, because it is a position that makes no sense. They are mostly teenagers and early 20s (developing brains, can do some reasoning, but don’t see it through to its logical conclusion), people who work with high school or college kids, or scientists who don’t study other subject areas. Just reading Richard Dawkins’s book shows this.

Now, they might not have enough faith to be Jews, Christians or Muslims, but they would be Deists, meaning they believe in God but don’t believe He interacts with us or affects our day-to-day lives.

 

[_Locke]

Most atheists don’t know much about philosophy or they wouldn’t be atheists, because it is a position that makes no sense. They are either teenagers (developing brains, can do some reasoning, but don’t see it through to its logical conclusion), people who work with teenagers, or scientists who don’t study other subject areas. Just reading Richard Dawkins’s book shows this.

Now, they might not have enough faith to be Jews, Christians or Muslims, but they would be Deists, meaning they believe in God but don’t believe He interacts with us or affects our day-to-day lives.

Now, do you have any support to back up this claim? That is, the one regarding philosophy, not the demeaning jab about how one must have an undeveloped brain to be an atheist.

According to a survey done in November 2009, taken by 3226 respondents, including 1803 philosophy faculty members and/or PhDs and 829 philosophy graduate students, 73% of philosophy faculty accept or lean toward atheism, while only 15% accept or lean toward theism. (The PhilPapers Survey)

I’d like to make it clear that I’m not discussing atheism, just the religious demographics of philosophers.

 

[Cat_Herder]

According to a survey done in November 2009, taken by 3226 respondents, including 1803 philosophy faculty members and/or PhDs and 829 philosophy graduate students, 73% of philosophy faculty accept or lean toward atheism, while only 15% accept or lean toward theism.

Deism is neither atheism nor theism… do you have more specific numbers?

 

[BlueShadow123]

I think atheists are all really just agnostics in a way.

Nobody can fully answer the ‘unknown’. There are things that are there that we have no idea about. It would be stupid to say they don’t exist if we don’t know.

 

[_Locke]

Deism is neither atheism nor theism… do you have more specific numbers?

I linked to the study - you can see what questions were asked and the results. On the question “God: theism or atheism?” the answer “Other” received 12.5%; interpret that how you will.

BlueShadow123:

It would be stupid to say they don’t exist if we don’t know.

This is not the atheist’s claim, and I will say no more on the topic lest this thread get deleted too.

 

[_Locke]

It would be stupid to say they don’t exist if we don’t know.

This is not the atheist’s claim, and I will say no more on the topic lest this thread get deleted too.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Locke

According to a survey done in November 2009, taken by 3226 respondents, including 1803 philosophy faculty members and/or PhDs and 829 philosophy graduate students, 73% of philosophy faculty accept or lean toward atheism, while only 15% accept or lean toward theism. (The PhilPapers Survey)

This, unfortunately for you, illustrates the very point you are trying to refute … that atheists have undeveloped brains. Put that statistical shoe on the other foot. If nearly 100% of all medieval scholars leaned toward theism (which is a near certainty) would that prove that they were smarter than the few who didn’t? By your own logic, it would. That is an example of undeveloped reasoning powers.

 

[_Locke]

This, unfortunately for you, illustrates the very point you are trying to refute … that atheists have undeveloped brains. Put that statistical shoe on the other foot. If nearly 100% of all medieval scholars leaned toward theism (which is a near certainty) would that prove that they were smarter than the few who didn’t? By your own logic, it would. That is an example of undeveloped reasoning powers.

Wrong on both accounts Charlemagne II. I was trying to refute the point that “most atheists don’t know about philosophy”, as I clearly stated. The survey, which shows that the majority of those with a higher level of education in philosophy accept or lean towards atheism, does just that.

I was not trying to prove that atheists are smarter; I was just showing the religious demographics of philosophers (once again, as I clearly stated).

I will leave it up to you to decide who has the “undeveloped reasoning powers.”

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Locke

You were responding to the post below, so it seems you were trying to establish that the majority of philosophers in the poll did not have undeveloped brains, and you were using statistics to prove it. As Mark Twain liked to say, “There are lies, damned lies, and statistics.”

Most atheists don’t know much about philosophy or they wouldn’t be atheists, because it is a position that makes no sense. They are either teenagers (developing brains, can do some reasoning, but don’t see it through to its logical conclusion), people who work with teenagers, or scientists who don’t study other subject areas. Just reading Richard Dawkins’s book shows this.

 

[_Locke]

You were responding to the post below, so it seems you were trying to establish that the majority of philosophers in the poll did not have undeveloped brains, and you were using statistics to prove it. As Mark Twain liked to say, “There are lies, damned lies, and statistics.”

Well I’m sorry you read it that way.

 

[inocente]

Also, how is John 1:1 relevant to the rest of the post?

I think I see what he’s doing, translating Logos as “logic” rather than the Word, Jesus.

It may be more usual to say that logic is an attribute rather than the entirety of God, as otherwise things can get a bit bizarre. For example verse 14 might then start “Logic became flesh and made its dwelling among us”. John just might be writing figuratively here. In verse 5 he talks of light shining in the darkness and the darkness not understanding the light, which would also be a little weird if taken literally.

But I’m not a Catholic and so also have under-developed reasoning powers.

 

[lemondiesel]

…that we worship Logic?

The Catholic is the ultimate philosopher, because he literally worships Wisdom.

Many atheists today (as they did in the time of Jesus) ask: “Why should we worship your god? What about all these other gods?” Well, the answer (which the ancient Fathers gave) is simple: because our God is Logic. The Logos. The Eternal Word.

I like and respect philosophical atheists a great deal, I can understand the doubt. I’m glad they’re here on these forums and I hope they continue to dialogue with us. If a man loves and seeks the Truth, how could he not be saved?

Catholics do not worship wisdom, they worship the lack of obtainable wisdom. Even St. Augustine wrote that true wisdom is unobtainable in our physical bodies. How can you say you’re God is logic when there are passages in the Bible that say to avoid science and logic because it will stray you away from the truth?

Most atheists don’t know much about philosophy or they wouldn’t be atheists, because it is a position that makes no sense. They are mostly teenagers and early 20s (developing brains, can do some reasoning, but don’t see it through to its logical conclusion), people who work with high school or college kids, or scientists who don’t study other subject areas. Just reading Richard Dawkins’s book shows this.

Haha! One of the dumbest post I have read on this forum by far. This shows the lack of respect you have for atheist, and you must remember that many devote atheists have provided scientific explanations that you use today in your beliefs. There are plenty of atheists all over the age group, you are just generalizing on poor information. Sad, you demand so much respect from Atheists, yet you show none in return.

Now, they might not have enough faith to be Jews, Christians or Muslims, but they would be Deists, meaning they believe in God but don’t believe He interacts with us or affects our day-to-day lives.

You are very confused with Agnosticism. I classify myself as an atheist and give no acknowledgement to any sort of ‘God’ or deity. The closet I would come to defining ‘God’ is mere existence, because that is the most we can explain about actually existing.

 

[OvrlapnMagstria]

I think atheists are all really just agnostics in a way.

Nobody can fully answer the ‘unknown’. There are things that are there that we have no idea about. It would be stupid to say they don’t exist if we don’t know.

I think I agree with you, but I gotta correct the terminology.

Atheism and agnosticism address two different points: belief and knowledge, respectively. Someone is atheist if they lack belief in a deity. They are **agnostic **if they lack knowledge in a deity.

It is possible to be both atheist and agnostic. An agnostic atheist will say “I cannot prove or disprove the existence of God, yet I do not believe in God.” Most atheists that I have come across have held this view.

Similarly, it is possible to be an agnostic theist. This person would say “I cannot prove or disprove the existence of God, yet I still believe in God.” I believe there is a user on this forum who would agree to this view, based on some posts I’ve read (though I forget who.)

The problem is that when most people hear the word “atheist,” they assume that it means a “hard atheist”: someone who is sure and claims to know that there is no God. I agree that to know for a fact that there is no God anywhere in the universe would be pretty hard to do.

Wikipedia does a good run-down of the terms: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic#Types_of_agnosticism

 

[OvrlapnMagstria]

Many atheists today (as they did in the time of Jesus) ask: “Why should we worship your god? What about all these other gods?” Well, the answer (which the ancient Fathers gave) is simple: because our God is Logic. The Logos. The Eternal Word.

Yea… the word logic is has its roots in Logos, which means “word”… That doesn’t make the two equivalent.

Should we also conclude that lefties are evil, because the word “sinister” comes from the Latin word Sinister which means “left?”

 

[Neithan]

I’m completely lost. What does it mean to “worship Logic”, “worship Wisdom”, or to say that “God is Logic”? Also, how is John 1:1 relevant to the rest of the post?

John writes that the Logos is God.
Not merely the signs, symbols and formulae of logic, but the rational principle itself. Wisdom is the good of reason, and philosophy is the love of wisdom. Worship (as in latria) is the highest form of love: total adoration.
Many atheists believe that religion is irrational. Perhaps most, maybe almost all, religions are. But for us Catholics, Reason is our religion.

 

[Cristiano]

…According to a survey done in November 2009, taken by 3226 respondents, including 1803 philosophy faculty members and/or PhDs and 829 philosophy graduate students, 73% of philosophy faculty accept or lean toward atheism, while only 15% accept or lean toward theism. (The PhilPapers Survey)

I’d like to make it clear that I’m not discussing atheism, just the religious demographics of philosophers.

You have proved that philosophy professors and philosophy students lean toward atheism. Now, what about philosophers?

 

[Neithan]

Catholics do not worship wisdom, they worship the lack of obtainable wisdom. Even St. Augustine wrote that true wisdom is unobtainable in our physical bodies. How can you say you’re God is logic when there are passages in the Bible that say to avoid science and logic because it will stray you away from the truth?
…

You’re misinterpreting or misapplying those passages.

 

[Neithan]

Yea… the word logic is has its roots in Logos, which means “word”… That doesn’t make the two equivalent.

Should we also conclude that lefties are evil, because the word “sinister” comes from the Latin word Sinister which means “left?”

It’s deeper than just superficial semantics here. Reason, essentially.
dictionary.com:

*Philosophy *.
a. the faculty or power of acquiring intellectual knowledge, either by direct understanding of first principles or by argument.